Help on a modeling idea...

[Black]

Hi peeps, some of you may have read my other thread about my idea for an all robed white scars army to fit with the fluff and events on Denver III and I come up against a block, it says in the fluff that both men and women filled the ranks on the planet, so the question stands how would I model female space marines wearing robes?

[FastEd]

You wouldn't if you are trying to be true to fluff. The gene-seed is only compatible with males, women would end up filling the ranks in the Imperial Guard or be represented as Adeptus Sororitas. Alternatively, you could just make female marines who were angry that they're non-canonical. :D

[Grailkeeper]

I had a brief look over that fluff- it's not real games workshop fluff- its not 'real' in the 40k universe. That said if you still want to follow it, do what ever you like.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Female marines are non-canon, but don't let that stop you.

As for how to model, it really shouldn't be too extreme to do. When a space marine is made, some of the alterations are dramatic artificial muscle mass increase, and artificially enhanced bone growth/strengthening, both far beyond a normal human. A helmeted female marine wouldn't be visually different from a normal male marine, and if dealing with an unhelmeted one, pick a noticeably feminine head (anything from the wyche sprue should do) - personally, I think that a female space marine would also wind up square-jawed and bald, but I guess that sort of defeats the novelty factor of female space marines.

There'd be more visual impact with female Scouts - in that case, perhaps shorten legs/arms a tiny bit (their physical alterations aren't complete yet), and file down that codpiece.

[Denzark]

How long does fluff remain canon? Nothing I know of supercedes the old fluff saying no female marines...

[Gotthammer]

Denzark, you forget the power... of imagination :p


For my FSM I don't do any mods aside from a couple who are helmetless - I've used a variety of noggins, including Mordheim Amazons, Hasslefree, and modded an existing SM head (the masked one).
Marine armour is so bulky IMO that you couldn't tell who was under it, and any modded models tend to look ridiculous.

[MasterSlowPoke]

A female space marine, in power armor, with robes on top, would be indistinguishable from a male one.

[Denzark]

My dear Gotthammer

Is it yourself with the Rainbow Warriors? I have a lot of respect for the old skool... but I am a fluff purist on the FSM matter... must respectfully agree to disagree.

I would of course play against a 'genefixed female private army of a Planetary governor in the latest servo armou'r, or possibly 'a Death World Amazon army geared in xenos armour attached to a Rogue Trader fleet' who happened to count as SM, but they would not for me be Marines per se.

I do agree that only facially would you tell what was under the armour.

[FastEd]

How long does fluff remain canon? Nothing I know of supercedes the old fluff saying no female marines...

It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of if other fluff comes out that contradicts it, and is deemed canonical by GW.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

While it may not be canonical, it's not implausible. The one line of fluff specifying why Space Marines are male-only is in the Index Astartes, stating "They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types". Male and female tissues do not differ; hence why we can have organ transplants between men and women. "keyed to male hormones" has some reasonable basis in that men and women have different concentrations of different hormones, but to say that nobody in the history of the 40kverse has ever had the basic medical knowledge necessary to lower the production of typically female hormones in a subject and inject male ones is a bit silly.

Basically, the fluff stating that space marines are male only is tenuous, and is more of an example of the Imperium's lack of knowledge about the why the space marine process works as it does and their lack of experimentation than it is of what's actually possible.

[Tynskel]

A female space marine, in power armor, with robes on top, would be indistinguishable from a male one.

What!?!?!?
This is 40k where they make form fitting power armor that even has Nipples!!!

[Tynskel]

While it may not be canonical, it's not implausible. The one line of fluff specifying why Space Marines are male-only is in the Index Astartes, stating "They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types". Male and female tissues do not differ; hence why we can have organ transplants between men and women. "keyed to male hormones" has some reasonable basis in that men and women have different concentrations of different hormones, but to say that nobody in the history of the 40kverse has ever had the basic medical knowledge necessary to lower the production of typically female hormones in a subject and inject male ones is a bit silly.

Basically, the fluff stating that space marines are male only is tenuous, and is more of an example of the Imperium's lack of knowledge about the why the space marine process works as it does and their lack of experimentation than it is of what's actually possible.

It is always possible that the two missing legions were Female Marines...

[FastEd]

Basically, the fluff stating that space marines are male only is tenuous, and is more of an example of the Imperium's lack of knowledge about the why the space marine process works as it does and their lack of experimentation than it is of what's actually possible.

I suspect the actual case is a bad use of pseudo-science that hasn't been touched since it was initially written, though that's just my own suspicions without anything to back it up because Occam's razor.

[Gotthammer]

My dear Gotthammer

Is it yourself with the Rainbow Warriors? I have a lot of respect for the old skool... but I am a fluff purist on the FSM matter... must respectfully agree to disagree.

That is indeed me. Don't worry about it, I was only winding you up :)

[Denzark]

It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of if other fluff comes out that contradicts it, and is deemed canonical by GW.

Agreed - as I said, if there is genuine (non-fanfic) GW fluff out there contradicting the original 'males only' fluff and being deemed canonical by GW, let someone quote it.


While it may not be canonical, it's not implausible. The one line of fluff specifying why Space Marines are male-only is in the Index Astartes, stating "They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types". Male and female tissues do not differ; hence why we can have organ transplants between men and women. "keyed to male hormones" has some reasonable basis in that men and women have different concentrations of different hormones, but to say that nobody in the history of the 40kverse has ever had the basic medical knowledge necessary to lower the production of typically female hormones in a subject and inject male ones is a bit silly.

Basically, the fluff stating that space marines are male only is tenuous, and is more of an example of the Imperium's lack of knowledge about the why the space marine process works as it does and their lack of experimentation than it is of what's actually possible.

This universe is entirely a matter of fiction. Plausibility or lack thereof does not apply to fiction. What would apply I respectfully submit, is as Fast Ed stated - GW fluff deemed canonical by GW and that contradicts the other original stated assertion - that there are no female space marines.


That is indeed me. Don't worry about it, I was only winding you up :)

Gotthammer I envy you the ability to paint straight lines on Marine helmets - If I could all my marines would have been RW! Feel free to wind on!

[FastEd]

Indeed, I was merely answering that time is not a contributing factor, at least in the case of GW.

As far as I am aware (and I could easily be wrong, especially at this hour), we don't actually know what was done with the two legions created for the missing primarchs, nor do we have any info on their background. One or both of the missing two very well could have been female, and thus female marines. The statement that "all Space Marines are male" and thus "there are no female Space Marines" are present tense, and thus do not apply to the early history of the Imperium. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if fluff referred to all the Primarchs, when speaking of all 20 and not just the 18 that were recovered, as male/sons/men. It seems to fit the bill better, especially with the God/Angels analogy that 40k has going on, with the named angels almost unanimously being referred to with male names.

I don't think what Tiberius was saying was a matter of arguing for their existence in the 40K universe, but, as per the reason they don't, the possibility of them being created. More of an observation at the use, or rather potential use, of applied lore rather then anything else.

Also...red text is red? What's up with that? Jealous of Duke's mod voice?

[Denzark]

No I am an internet biff. When I multi-quote I do it toshow myself I have replied to everything I wanted to.:D

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Yeah, FastEd's got the right interpretation. I wasn't saying they were "Plausible, and therefore canon", just that their creation wasn't a complete impossibility (unlike, say, a Tau being given the Space Marine Treatment.)

[The Terraformer]

Two words: Giant. Breasts.




No, not really, but don't worry about fluff and canon and all that, the fluff for this game was written by people just like you and me, there's no need to adhere to someone else's fantasy if you feel you have a better idea, heck maybe someday the ideas and concepts you create will be so popular that it will be integrated into the "official" fluff. Whatever that means.

What I'm saying is have fun. No great acheivement has ever been accomplished by following all the standards and rules.

[Denzark]

Two words: Giant. Breasts.




No, not really, but don't worry about fluff and canon and all that, the fluff for this game was written by people just like you and me, who said at the time there could be no female space marines and have not said anything to change this stance since There's no need to adhere to someone else's fantasy if you feel you have a better idea, heck maybe someday the ideas and concepts you create will be so popular that it will be integrated into the "official" fluff. Whatever that means ]- although I confess female space marines would add nothing to the game so GW won't be changing it anytime soon[/B].

What I'm saying is have fun. No great acheivement has ever been accomplished by following all the standards and rules.

Here, fixed that for you.