Dreadknight or Terminators?

[Sonikgav]

Ive been considering my list again and im wondering which would suit better. My Dreadknight with Psycannon and Incinerator or a unit of 5 Termies with Halberds and a Psycannon.

Unit size wise both are similar, similar footprint, the Dreadknight only has 1 wound less than the squad though is much easier to pick out at range.

The Dreadknight only gets 5 attacks on the charge while the unit gets 10 but its got a higher strength and has potential for lots of ranged damage. Both can deepstrike and then theres the teleporter option for the Knight......

Cant seem to make my mind up.

[Lemt]

Well, Terminators are troop choices, so that's something in their favour. But the DK has better ranged firepower...

[Tynskel]

Both!

[Sonikgav]

The list does already have a unit of Termies i was just gonna double up on em. The more i think about it the more i wanna try the Dreadknight anyway. The list is light on blasts/templates so it will do.

Is 275 points too much though? Atm its a straight 200 hence the possible swap with the Termies. Does a gun platform need a teleporter or shall i keep it 'cheap'.

[Mr.Pickelz]

the dreadknight is amazing at soaking firepower as their size and the 30" Shunt will distract most opponents.

The termys are nice, i love 'em and always advise taking more.

[bfmusashi]

Termies, no one ever argues that they're walkers.

[blackarmchair]

Termies, no one ever argues that they're walkers.

It's true.

Personally, I'd take the dreadknight, I think GKT are awful in the new book. You'd much rather have the 2+/4++ than the 2+/5++ the terminators get especially considering their differences in toughness. If you're looking for a unit with Halberds and a psycannon or two just go with purifiers, if you want something more durable to pack an assault punch I think the DK is far better.

[Connjurus]

Dreadknights only have 5++'s.

[Bean]

It's true.

Personally, I'd take the dreadknight, I think GKT are awful in the new book. You'd much rather have the 2+/4++ than the 2+/5++ the terminators get especially considering their differences in toughness. If you're looking for a unit with Halberds and a psycannon or two just go with purifiers, if you want something more durable to pack an assault punch I think the DK is far better.

Really? 225 points for a psycannon Terminator squad are really a very good troop choice. They've got great shots that they don't lose when they move--better than the Dreadknight's shots, since they're actually good against tanks. They're reasonable tough. They put out great damage in combat (except against tanks, they're significantly better than the Dreadknight). They score. Free Thunderhammer (that goes up to S10) gives them some worthwhile damage against tanks in combat.

GKT are a good, solid troop unit that is mobile, versatile, tough, and reasonably priced. Not liking them is foolish.

Dreadknights are useful as flying monsters. Without a teleporter, they're basically a waste---the guns aren't good enough to justify them. With a teleporter they're scary tank-punchers that can also beat most normal non-vehicle units in combat.

[DarkLink]

I've been taking 10 GKT with 2 psycannons and one of various attached characters, and they're pretty effective. I've literally just marched them straight up the middle of the board into the opponent's deployment zone, shooting the whole way.

It's probably not the greatest way to play them, but the sheer amount of firepower it takes to kill them is impressive. I've taken them against SW and BA razorback spam, and despite all the plasma rifles and lascannons and the like it typically takes most of my opponent's army the whole game to kill the Terminators over the course of the game. It also keeps most of his army trapped in his deployment zone. It's important to note that the Termies are backed up by psyrifle dreads that keep half his army stunned or destroyed very effectively.

I don't think it would do quite as well against IG or DE, though (too many veterans with plasma guns and dark lances), and I tend to have trouble getting past midfield with significant force quickly. In Capture and Control, it's very tough to do anything but tie, though you're nearly guaranteed at least a tie if you play smart because you can trap your opponent in his deployment zone.




Anyways, moral of the story is that GKT are pretty awesome. I've yet to be convinced the same of Dreadknights, though I haven't tried taking one yet. I just can't bring myself to fit one into a list when there are other things that I think are better. I'll get around to it eventually.

[Sonikgav]

I might be convinced to not bother with the Knight tbh. I havent had a good history with the big 'fancy piece' models in an army though i just realised i could have a 10man Termie unit :) Or at least 2 units of 5 which looks pretty good to me.

[blackarmchair]

No one is going nuts over C:SM Shooty terminators. Some dudes with stormbolters and a heavy weapon at a premium of 40pts a guy isn't exactly my idea of efficient.

It's not that the shooting is bad, it's that you're paying for stuff you won't use. Auspiciously, GKT are supposed to fight as well as shoot but in reality they can't really fight worth a crap. 5++ invulnerable is nothing special.

[Sonikgav]

No one is going nuts over C:SM Shooty terminators. Some dudes with stormbolters and a heavy weapon at a premium of 40pts a guy isn't exactly my idea of efficient.

It's not that the shooting is bad, it's that you're paying for stuff you won't use. Auspiciously, GKT are supposed to fight as well as shoot but in reality they can't really fight worth a crap. 5++ invulnerable is nothing special.

But the options to give them either I6 or a 4++ Inv isnt too bad. I still havent decided which to go with.

[Sonikgav]

So basically what im looking at now is....

Crowe - 150
Xenos Inquisitor - Rad grenades, Trokes, Combi Melta, Power Armour, Psyker+ Hammerhand - 103

Purifier x10 - 5 Halberds, 1 Hammer, 4 Psycannons - 295 (Rhino here)
Purifier x10 - 5 Halberds, 1 Hammer, 4 Psycannons - 295 (Rhino here)
Purifier x5 - 3 Halberds, 2 Incinerators - 126 (Inquisitor+ Razorback here)
Terminators x5 - Psycannon, 4 Halberds/Swords, 1 Hammer - 225
Terminators x5 - Psycannon, 4 Halberds/Swords, 1 Hammer - 225

Vindicare - 145

Dreadnaught - Twin Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo - 135
Dreadnaught - Twin Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo - 135

Razorback - Assault Cannon, Psybolts, Searchlight - 86
Rhino x2 - 80

2000

I may use the Termies as 1 unit of 10 and Combat Squad them as needed since they cost and are equipped the same either way but it saves me an extra Kill point in those kinda games.

[Paul]

I like your list and the decision you made.

I dislike the dreadknight because:

1)It's silly in both name and form.
2) It's rules are dumb (in the sense that people argue about it so much)
3) It doesn't do anything the terminator squad can't accomplish.

[bfmusashi]

If I may go off on a totally unsolicited tangent, I've ditched my termies in favor of more strike squads. Denying deepstrike within 12" of my squads has saved me from the horror that is drop podded ironclads. I'm more afraid of them now my Vindicare can't shoot into combat.

[Sonikgav]

Hmm, Strike Squads give me 2 Psycannons, double the wounds and Warp Quake but are easier to kill and don't get any Combat upgrades though tbh i don't think they need them. As a straight 'we are basic troops' unit thats not too bad for 220 points.

Its tempting, ill be making the list you see above as my first List but i may collect more Marines at some point and try the alternative too. Especially if i go to 2250 or something since i am planning on getting Tournament competitive at some point too.

[Major Shultz]

Howdy!
Here is my...
2,000 pt Grey Knights List
HQ
220 Grandmaster, Psycannon
Troops
450 10x Terminators, 2x Psycannon
270 10x GKSS, 2x Psycannon, DH, Rhino
270 10x GKSS, 2x Psycannon, DH, Rhino
260 10x GKSS, 2x Psycannon, Rhino
260 10x GKSS, 2x Psycannon, Rhino
Heavy
135 PsyRifle Dreadnought
135 PsyRifle Dreadnought

GM can give 1d3 units: Scout, Make the dreads scoring units, or reroll 1's to wound.
I can keep them together and Deep Strike the GM and the Termies. 5 scoring units!
Or split up into combat squads. 10 scoring units!
Dreads just shoot and kill.
I love the 2 Psycannon Rhino Gun Boat.
And yes i like the GK Termies.

[Bean]

No one is going nuts over C:SM Shooty terminators. Some dudes with stormbolters and a heavy weapon at a premium of 40pts a guy isn't exactly my idea of efficient.

It's not that the shooting is bad, it's that you're paying for stuff you won't use. Auspiciously, GKT are supposed to fight as well as shoot but in reality they can't really fight worth a crap. 5++ invulnerable is nothing special.

C:SM Shooty Terminators pay more for their Assault Cannon, their Assault Cannon is worse, they're substantially worse in combat, and they don't score. Of course no-one is going nuts over them. But, since they're basically worse than GKT in every possible way, that doesn't really say anything about GKT.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

GKT - Not super great in CC without significant augmentation IMO. They don't soak up mass firepower but actually die pretty quickly. Used Dreadknight every game and have managed to get it to make it's points back. Don't use it as a firing platform, that's not what it's for. Use the teleporter and smash the granny out of high cost vehicles and monstrous creatures - anything else is largely a waste of time

[Duncndisorderly]

Don't use it as a firing platform, that's not what it's for. Use the teleporter and smash the granny out of high cost vehicles and monstrous creatures - anything else is largely a waste of time

Having used it I came to a similar conclusion, the fire power is expensive and largely pointless although the heavy incinerator bending round corners is quite good fun. As far as longevity goes the Terminators have outlasted the Knight every time so far, although admittedely thats only two games.
Thats not to say I'm not still using it, it's really cool looking (yes, i know thats not a good reason) and stripped to just powerfists and no weapons it is bags of tank/monster killing fun.
Dont bother with the teleport, use servo skulls and deep strike hopefully soak up the hurting that your opponent will put on you when you arrive and then assault anything nearby.
my twopennorth for what it was worth

[Bean]

GKT - Not super great in CC without significant augmentation IMO. They don't soak up mass firepower but actually die pretty quickly. Used Dreadknight every game and have managed to get it to make it's points back. Don't use it as a firing platform, that's not what it's for. Use the teleporter and smash the granny out of high cost vehicles and monstrous creatures - anything else is largely a waste of time

They're not super great in CC, but they're better in CC than virtually every other troop choice in the game, and actually better in CC than all but about two of the other troop choices which are even close to being as versatile (GKSS and Deathwing Termies). They're about as resilient to weight-of-fire as any other troop choice.

They're not unstoppable uber-death-machines. I don't think anyone is saying they are.

What they are is a fairly solid troops choice that is versatile (pretty good at both shooting and close combat, against both tanks and guys), mobile (they never have to choose between moving and worthwhile shots) reasonably tough, and reasonably priced.

If you're disappointed in GKTs, its only because you are approaching them with unreasonable expectations. Any reasonable comparison reveals them to be a very good troops choice.

That said, you're definitely right about the dreadknight--if you're taking it for its guns, you're making a mistake. Personal Teleporter and maybe sword. Upgrades beyond that are basically a waste.

[wolflold]

Just take whatever you think is cooler, it will work either way :).

[Sonikgav]

What i may do is finish the army with Termies for now. Then get a Dreadknight as a fancy piece. Build it to straight swap out with a unit of termies and try mixing it up from time to time.