BlindGunn
04-28-2011, 10:33 AM
So – this is a fun little force I played last weekend in a couple of games against Grey Knights. It actually did better than I expected.
Shas’o with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod & Multi-Tracker – Standard Shas’o with no extras (Expendable)
Shas’el with Plasma Rifle, Fusion Gun, Shield Generator and Hardwired Multi-Tracker
2 Crisis Suits with Twin-Linked Missile Pods, Plasma Rifles, Leader Upgrade and Hardwired Multi-Trackers (Operated as 2 separate squads)
4 Firewarrior Squads, each composed of:
11 Firewarriors with Photon Grenades, Shas’ui upgrade, Bonding Knife, Markerlight and Hardwired Target Lock
6 Pathfinders with Shas’ui upgrade (for leadership only) and Devilfish with Disruption Pods and Multi-Tracker
HammerHead Tank with Railgun, Burst Guns, Multi-Tracker, Target Lock and Disruption Pods
2 Broadsides with Smart missiles and Shield Generators (operating as 2 separate Squads)
Not your typical list! ;) No Kroot and lots of Firewarriors!
Plan was: everything deploys in cover (or as close as possible) for 1st turn Except the Shas-el. His mission was to Deep Strike and kill targets in the backfield. Suits and Hammerhead were to pop-open transports and Vehicles while the Firewarriors would overwhelm the infantry with sheer firepower. One Firewarrior squad would commandeer the Pathfinder’s Devilfish and make a flanking maneuver or go for objectives. The other Firewarriors could either cover each other as they advanced or hide in cover and wait for the enemy to come to me.
Arrived to play the game and Uh Oh…
Both games were played on an “Ice Planet” – lots of little stepped hills, some stacked up high enough to hide tanks behind, but no Area Terrain to hide my troops in. Also, my opponent brought Grey Knights, not his normal Marines or IG lists.
I don’t have the Codex yet, but I “believe” he had:
- Librarian in Terminator Armour
- Techmarine
- Unit of Paladins with Terminator armour
- Regular Grey Knight Squad with Power Armour
- 2 Regular units in Terminator armour
- Unit with the Teleporters (Can’t remember their name – sorry)
- Dreadnought
- Dreadknight
We rolled for our First battle and it was Annihilation on Pitched battle. I was doomed before we started – I had a potential of 14 Kill points to his 9. Game ended on turn 5 (9 to 5 for Grey Knights) and I had only the 2 HQs, an Immobilized Hammerhead, the Devilfish (drones still attached)and, I think, 1 Broadside. I had, however, managed to kill the Dreadknight, the Dreadnought, the Techmarine and 2 infantry squads, while the Paladins were down to less than half strength. Considering the last time I played KPs with Tau I had only managed to gain 1 KP, this was a GREAT result! :D
Second game, we rolled Capture and Control – again, using Pitched Battle. We both chose objectives diagonally across the table from each other. I parked 3 squads of Firewarriors in behind the crest of the hill that my objective was on, with a Broadside for support, while the rest of the army went into cover on the other side of the table, hoping to do a run to his objective. I blasted apart his Dreadnought with my Hammerhead, 1st shot of the game (it usually misses)! The Broadsides, no longer able to see anything but the Paladins, started blasting away at them from extreme long range. One would survive the game. The Dreadknight blasted my Devilfish, but the Crisis suits, Hammerhead, and Firewarriors blasted it apart in a single turn. All his defenders around his objective were wiped out. On the other side, his Teleporters popped up around the objective, but could only target a single unit. All 3 Firewarrior squads and the Broadside were “Hull-Down” around the edge of a hill. He fluffed his rolls and I saved most of them as cover saves. Approximately 30 Firewarriors double-tapped – no more Marines. He was able to get his other two terminator teams up eventually, but the combined long range fire, slowly dropping to Double-Tap range (not to mention Broadside shots) while being lit up by Pathfinders; none made it to my objective for more than a single turn. Game over by turn 4 – I had effectively tabled him (1 Paladin figure was running towards his objective to contest it when he conceded the match).
Now: I was lucky – no “ifs” about it. I didn’t face a “Leafblower” list with lots of templates every turn and the Orbital Bombardments from the Tech Priest were terribly ineffective – usually scattering badly out of range. There was really only 1 vehicle (a Dread), so I couldn’t really test the effectiveness of the Crisis suits popping transports. These were largely Infantry vs infantry battles, so I really did have the best of chances to succeed. In spite of the Grey Knights being decked out for Hand-to-hand, there were surprisingly very few Close Combats (maybe 3 over the course of 2 games). I’m guessing 95% of the casualties were from shooting. In the one CC engagement I remember, the Firewarriors WON! (Sheer numbers, they killed off the last member of a 5 man squad who charged into combat. Photon Grenades really helped cut down the losses.)
IMHO, these games did prove the viability of Firewarriors. The key (in my mind) is numbers and cover. If you want to make an impression, you need LOTS! Squads need to find cover ASAP, be it behind a wall or hill crest to shoot over or in the woods and buildings. Find cover and use it WELL!!! Devilfish are for getting you to cover more quickly or screen you after they are shot down! Size-wise, I think 9-man squads are the smallest I would want to go with (if using this list-building strategy). I’m assuming that will be 16 shots plus a markerlight. Anything less than that and you’re not causing enough armour saves to threaten squads as well armoured as Terminators (or even Marines with their 3+). In fact - you should be planning on shooting multiple squads at the same target every turn. I would prefer to take all 12-man squads, but let’s face it – we all want some extra toys and the Firewarriors can usually take the loss of a couple of figures and still be viable. In larger games, I would like to pick-up another Devilfish or 2 for mobility and protection before adding more Firewarrior Squads, but would also prefer another Hammerhead or Broadside Suit Squad. On the other hand – 5 or 6 squads of Firewarriors Leap-frogging with each other across a table would be a great sight to see! The other consideration I had was to drop 1 squad of Firewarriors, get a Devilfish for one squad (2 including the Pathfinders DF) and a single Piranha with Seeker and Fusion Gun to go Tank & Character Hunting in the back fields – help out the Shas’el a bit. I’m worried that may drop the effectiveness of the Firewarriors too much though – 1 Squad would pretty much be left on its own and they would be taken apart piecemeal again.
One of the big weaknesses of this list is Kill Points. The list does give up a lot the way it’s presently configured. I could reduce the KPs by combining the Crisis suits and Broadsides into single squads (saves 2 KP there). Fiddle with the points and get Hardwire Target Lock on both squads so each squad can still target multiple targets. However, I liked being able to split up the Broadsides so they could cover each other from opposite table ends. May need to look at getting another 2-man Broadside Team, but I do like the Hammerhead for the blast shot for hoards and such.
I did have doubts about the Shas’el but he worked out fine. I had originally configured him with Twin-linked Fusion and Hardwired a Shield Drone or two, but he kept getting assaulted by Dreads or squads with too many power weapons, who always managed to kill him as he didn’t get an invulnerable save for himself. These two games he survived and the shield worked to keep him alive – though he was never in CC. The most frustrating time for my opponent was when I got the Shas’o and Shas’el on opposite sides of a Terminator Squad. Both kept jumping into Rapid-Fire Range with Plasma Rifles and jumping out of Charge range and into cover, the Shas’el into the enemy deployment zone. The Terminators were destroyed in a couple of turns because he couldn’t charge or shoot both at the same time. They got picked apart in the middle. I was working on a second squad of terminators when the game ended.
If I were to find I need more Anti-Armour, I think 1st thing I would possibly sacrifice would be the Crisis suits. Twin-Linked missile pods helped hit and damage things, but at strength 7, they’re only good for lighter armour. Anything heavier and I’d want Railguns or Fusion. Sacrificing the two Crisis suits and losing a Firewarrior or two, I could get another 2-man Broadside team or Hammerhead. In larger games, I could bring them back to the table.
Pathfinders were great. They were able to light up units so that 2-3 squads of Firewarriors were shooting at BS5 per turn! Even I can hit with enough BS5 shots! Terminators were simply overwhelmed. As a result, they were targeted quickly. But they did their duty as long as they could.
What would you do with this list? (BE NICE!) ;)
Shas’o with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod & Multi-Tracker – Standard Shas’o with no extras (Expendable)
Shas’el with Plasma Rifle, Fusion Gun, Shield Generator and Hardwired Multi-Tracker
2 Crisis Suits with Twin-Linked Missile Pods, Plasma Rifles, Leader Upgrade and Hardwired Multi-Trackers (Operated as 2 separate squads)
4 Firewarrior Squads, each composed of:
11 Firewarriors with Photon Grenades, Shas’ui upgrade, Bonding Knife, Markerlight and Hardwired Target Lock
6 Pathfinders with Shas’ui upgrade (for leadership only) and Devilfish with Disruption Pods and Multi-Tracker
HammerHead Tank with Railgun, Burst Guns, Multi-Tracker, Target Lock and Disruption Pods
2 Broadsides with Smart missiles and Shield Generators (operating as 2 separate Squads)
Not your typical list! ;) No Kroot and lots of Firewarriors!
Plan was: everything deploys in cover (or as close as possible) for 1st turn Except the Shas-el. His mission was to Deep Strike and kill targets in the backfield. Suits and Hammerhead were to pop-open transports and Vehicles while the Firewarriors would overwhelm the infantry with sheer firepower. One Firewarrior squad would commandeer the Pathfinder’s Devilfish and make a flanking maneuver or go for objectives. The other Firewarriors could either cover each other as they advanced or hide in cover and wait for the enemy to come to me.
Arrived to play the game and Uh Oh…
Both games were played on an “Ice Planet” – lots of little stepped hills, some stacked up high enough to hide tanks behind, but no Area Terrain to hide my troops in. Also, my opponent brought Grey Knights, not his normal Marines or IG lists.
I don’t have the Codex yet, but I “believe” he had:
- Librarian in Terminator Armour
- Techmarine
- Unit of Paladins with Terminator armour
- Regular Grey Knight Squad with Power Armour
- 2 Regular units in Terminator armour
- Unit with the Teleporters (Can’t remember their name – sorry)
- Dreadnought
- Dreadknight
We rolled for our First battle and it was Annihilation on Pitched battle. I was doomed before we started – I had a potential of 14 Kill points to his 9. Game ended on turn 5 (9 to 5 for Grey Knights) and I had only the 2 HQs, an Immobilized Hammerhead, the Devilfish (drones still attached)and, I think, 1 Broadside. I had, however, managed to kill the Dreadknight, the Dreadnought, the Techmarine and 2 infantry squads, while the Paladins were down to less than half strength. Considering the last time I played KPs with Tau I had only managed to gain 1 KP, this was a GREAT result! :D
Second game, we rolled Capture and Control – again, using Pitched Battle. We both chose objectives diagonally across the table from each other. I parked 3 squads of Firewarriors in behind the crest of the hill that my objective was on, with a Broadside for support, while the rest of the army went into cover on the other side of the table, hoping to do a run to his objective. I blasted apart his Dreadnought with my Hammerhead, 1st shot of the game (it usually misses)! The Broadsides, no longer able to see anything but the Paladins, started blasting away at them from extreme long range. One would survive the game. The Dreadknight blasted my Devilfish, but the Crisis suits, Hammerhead, and Firewarriors blasted it apart in a single turn. All his defenders around his objective were wiped out. On the other side, his Teleporters popped up around the objective, but could only target a single unit. All 3 Firewarrior squads and the Broadside were “Hull-Down” around the edge of a hill. He fluffed his rolls and I saved most of them as cover saves. Approximately 30 Firewarriors double-tapped – no more Marines. He was able to get his other two terminator teams up eventually, but the combined long range fire, slowly dropping to Double-Tap range (not to mention Broadside shots) while being lit up by Pathfinders; none made it to my objective for more than a single turn. Game over by turn 4 – I had effectively tabled him (1 Paladin figure was running towards his objective to contest it when he conceded the match).
Now: I was lucky – no “ifs” about it. I didn’t face a “Leafblower” list with lots of templates every turn and the Orbital Bombardments from the Tech Priest were terribly ineffective – usually scattering badly out of range. There was really only 1 vehicle (a Dread), so I couldn’t really test the effectiveness of the Crisis suits popping transports. These were largely Infantry vs infantry battles, so I really did have the best of chances to succeed. In spite of the Grey Knights being decked out for Hand-to-hand, there were surprisingly very few Close Combats (maybe 3 over the course of 2 games). I’m guessing 95% of the casualties were from shooting. In the one CC engagement I remember, the Firewarriors WON! (Sheer numbers, they killed off the last member of a 5 man squad who charged into combat. Photon Grenades really helped cut down the losses.)
IMHO, these games did prove the viability of Firewarriors. The key (in my mind) is numbers and cover. If you want to make an impression, you need LOTS! Squads need to find cover ASAP, be it behind a wall or hill crest to shoot over or in the woods and buildings. Find cover and use it WELL!!! Devilfish are for getting you to cover more quickly or screen you after they are shot down! Size-wise, I think 9-man squads are the smallest I would want to go with (if using this list-building strategy). I’m assuming that will be 16 shots plus a markerlight. Anything less than that and you’re not causing enough armour saves to threaten squads as well armoured as Terminators (or even Marines with their 3+). In fact - you should be planning on shooting multiple squads at the same target every turn. I would prefer to take all 12-man squads, but let’s face it – we all want some extra toys and the Firewarriors can usually take the loss of a couple of figures and still be viable. In larger games, I would like to pick-up another Devilfish or 2 for mobility and protection before adding more Firewarrior Squads, but would also prefer another Hammerhead or Broadside Suit Squad. On the other hand – 5 or 6 squads of Firewarriors Leap-frogging with each other across a table would be a great sight to see! The other consideration I had was to drop 1 squad of Firewarriors, get a Devilfish for one squad (2 including the Pathfinders DF) and a single Piranha with Seeker and Fusion Gun to go Tank & Character Hunting in the back fields – help out the Shas’el a bit. I’m worried that may drop the effectiveness of the Firewarriors too much though – 1 Squad would pretty much be left on its own and they would be taken apart piecemeal again.
One of the big weaknesses of this list is Kill Points. The list does give up a lot the way it’s presently configured. I could reduce the KPs by combining the Crisis suits and Broadsides into single squads (saves 2 KP there). Fiddle with the points and get Hardwire Target Lock on both squads so each squad can still target multiple targets. However, I liked being able to split up the Broadsides so they could cover each other from opposite table ends. May need to look at getting another 2-man Broadside Team, but I do like the Hammerhead for the blast shot for hoards and such.
I did have doubts about the Shas’el but he worked out fine. I had originally configured him with Twin-linked Fusion and Hardwired a Shield Drone or two, but he kept getting assaulted by Dreads or squads with too many power weapons, who always managed to kill him as he didn’t get an invulnerable save for himself. These two games he survived and the shield worked to keep him alive – though he was never in CC. The most frustrating time for my opponent was when I got the Shas’o and Shas’el on opposite sides of a Terminator Squad. Both kept jumping into Rapid-Fire Range with Plasma Rifles and jumping out of Charge range and into cover, the Shas’el into the enemy deployment zone. The Terminators were destroyed in a couple of turns because he couldn’t charge or shoot both at the same time. They got picked apart in the middle. I was working on a second squad of terminators when the game ended.
If I were to find I need more Anti-Armour, I think 1st thing I would possibly sacrifice would be the Crisis suits. Twin-Linked missile pods helped hit and damage things, but at strength 7, they’re only good for lighter armour. Anything heavier and I’d want Railguns or Fusion. Sacrificing the two Crisis suits and losing a Firewarrior or two, I could get another 2-man Broadside team or Hammerhead. In larger games, I could bring them back to the table.
Pathfinders were great. They were able to light up units so that 2-3 squads of Firewarriors were shooting at BS5 per turn! Even I can hit with enough BS5 shots! Terminators were simply overwhelmed. As a result, they were targeted quickly. But they did their duty as long as they could.
What would you do with this list? (BE NICE!) ;)