Apocalypse And Its Worth

[Lord Castellan]

So I gotta wonder, just HOW worth it is it to have massive Apoc armies? I mean I currently have 4500 points of my BT, amassed over a mere 3 months. I mean in truth its closer to 2k with upgrades and all the options, but still. Of course it also includes a Baneblade which I can only field in Apoc.

Plus im considering ordering a Warlord Titan from someone up in England. 400 pounds. Considering it's expense, and how expensive FW Titans are, and Baneblades and Stompas, I have to start to wonder if its all worth it?

Do we play Apoc enough to use these massive plastic dudesmen of destruction? Is just owning them the cool factor?

I have to admit I personally have played Apoc five times now. Twice way back in 4th when I was still a White Shield newbie, and two times around three years ago. My only recent one with Titans and Baneblades and Stompas and Brass Scorpions galore, was 70,000 points and we only made it through 2 turns. Still, there was massive destruction and the feeling of getting to shoot a Baneblade and of blowing up the Brass Scorpions was amazing. But as I ponder the decision to buy a $600 model, I wonder if ill really be using it often enough.

Do those of ya'll that have Titans and Super Heavies use them enough to make them worth it?

[Gir]

I have 15k of Blood Angels, I have friends with the following:
21k tyranids
18k Chaos
13k Necrons
13k Orks

So we play an aweful lot of apoc, and my gaming group enjoys it way more then normal games.

[Necron_Lord]

I have to agree with Gir. If your group has a number of players with large armies and FW goodies fairly evenly distributed, Apoc can be great fun. If one guy has all the super-heavy stuff, he'll almost always win as they are worth a lot more than their points with 'normal' units. At the end of the day, I suppose you are the only one who can answer whether you are getting your money's worth from your Apoc army. If you're having fun with it and can afford it, then the answer would be 'yes'.

[Lane]

Is a Land raider worth $62?

Apocalypse is aimed at the collector rather than competitive players. There is just too much chance a tournament type army will get blown away before it has a chance to do much. OTOH it allows those of us with multiple armies to play more than a fraction of our collection.

Apocalypse also benefits people who like to have options available for their army. Some of us have armies spanning several editions. With each new codex and edition some units loose effectiveness or others become the must have resulting in 4k-6k of models most of which do not see regular play.

Then you have the Fluff collector. Some people like the idea of a Battle Company even if they only use a portion of it. Same applies to Baneblades etc. People bought these models before Apocalypse was released so they have value to us without using them on the table. Apocalypse just gives a chance to share the cool models with others.

If you want truly massive battles you need to play Epic. Unfortunately it is not well supported right now and a lot of units are not available and heavy units are $20 each.

[Exterminatus]

I know my group sure does make it worth it. We play Apoc games once every 3 months and our regular 2000 point games every weekend or everyother weekend. We have all armies represented(except tau, no particullar reason, just no one in our group plays them atm). and have about a dozen super heavies and 6 gargants. We usually play 30k to 40k apoc games and i would have to say yes, the cost for some of these models is well worth the $$ if your into the hobby and like hanging with your friends. Or even if you like to just go to the stores and play in there games. I guess it's a perspective thing, i think its great for how much i play, just have to look at how much you play and weigh the options i suppose. :)

"To the righteous we bring hope. To the tainted we bring fire."

- Castellan Garran Crowe

[DrLove42]

I haven't played an Apoc game in a while, due to moving and having to downgrade playing area. But with over 15,000pts combined, and looking to add another 4000 in FW soon I used to and want to play a lot.

House rules are incredibly important for it though, or else it just becomes about one or 2 big models capable of leveling everything, and the strat assets arne't balenced

[Defenestratus]

If you're the only one with an apoc force then no, its not worth it.

Personally I have my best friend Kyle who has an equal amount of chaos vs my eldar so it all balances out. We add in some other friends who manage to put together meager forces of 7k and we have a good time. Our last game we played was 40k per side and we made it through turn 5. Of course, the 5 foot tall titan blowing up and projecting a 42" apocalyptic explosion accelerated the game quite a bit :P
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_W-OLykJh4lc/TVLYVUdc-gI/AAAAAAAAODE/sIGM79V_mDA/s640/P2090554.JPG

[DrLove42]

When I say I have 15,000 I'm still the small guys army out of my usual players...the benefit of playing for a lot longer I guess..

[Demonus]

we are planning our first apoc game this june, 4 players, 4000 pts each. personally i love the fact there is no FOC. I have over 10000pts of Chaos, and rarely play Thousand Sons, Lucius, Sorcerers, Regular Lords, or my 6 Squads of Chaos Marines, cause in 2000pt games, other models do the job more efficiently.

I bought a few armies from Craigslist for $200 here and there, and now have 5 armies (Chaos, Necrons, SW, Eldar, Vanilla Marines) that I can easily field 3000+ with.

And I have an almost finished converted Stormlord decked out in spiky bits, nurglings, and warp taint.

Like others said though, if you dont play it often, I wouldnt buy a titan, unless of course you just like asembling/painting it for show.

[eldargal]

I have nearly 60k of Eldar and another 30-40k assorted other bits in 40k, and all six of my brothers have between 80-120k (the higher figure being the twins that have been collecting for 27 years, the lower the twins that have been collecting for 18 years). So Apocalypse was a godsend for us. If your circle only have a few 1500-2500 armies it probably won't be so good. But its quite easy and fun to have an Apocalypse game with 2000pts and a few FW goodies. You don't need to have ridiculous collections to enjoy it but a mentioned above, you will need houserules.

[Demonus]

I have nearly 60k of Eldar

Holy Throne!

[eldargal]

Well I've been collecting Eldar for fifteen years and I managed to acquire a few collections from peopel leaving the hobby on the way (mostly MKI-II Eldar). Its approaching 1300 models. The last 10k has been mostly ForgeWorld though. God knows what I'll end up with after IA11 hits.

[Lord Castellan]

I love Apoc and im going to start playing it more, 10k-20k games with a handful of people and even the massive games with tons. So yes im going to go for it, not to mention being able to say I own a Warlord Titan will be rather fulfilling. Now I just need to get that Titan crew :P

Itll be worth it if only just to show off at the local gamestore, but those days when I get to field it will make all the money worth it I think.

[Defenestratus]

One thing to keep in mind, is that Apoc games where everyone brings 3k-5k and plops them down on the table are much different games where a few guys are bringing 20k each.

For some reason, "open invite" apoc games tend to attract little kids who don't know their armies, don't know their rules, and constantly pesker you, the more experienced player for what to do with their unpainted and half assembled models.

We have run a couple of games like that where there were 5+ people per side and its honestly hideous. Not fun. Takes forever. We played 120k points per side a couple times like this and never made it past turn two. Our last game we played 3 experienced guys per side, and capped it at 40k per side and the game actually went to conclusion after two days of playing and was much more enjoyable (except for all those chaos disruption beacons, those things suck bad - I'd outlaw those personally)

Also recognize the space required. We played on a 12'x8' table (three 4x8's stacked end to end) and we didn't have nearly enough room on the imperial/allied side of the table. Units coming in from reserve had no space.

This may or may not have contributed to the "enough room" issue:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_W-OLykJh4lc/TWnGMMFyg3I/AAAAAAAAN80/d9lHZ_2vopQ/s640/2011-02-26_12-01-54_605.jpg

[eldargal]

Our group treats Apocalypse as something you earn when you show dedication to the hobby through playing and painting. We don't let new players participate (except perhaps in a very small fashion, a single squad or vehicle, that sort of thing) until they have shown they understand the rules, understand their army and can get the thing painted and based.
I'm not saying this approach is for everyone, but it makes the games much more enjoyable and seems to act as a good incentive for new players to get their act together.

[wittdooley]

Our group treats Apocalypse as something you earn when you show dedication to the hobby through playing and painting. We don't let new players participate (except perhaps in a very small fashion, a single squad or vehicle, that sort of thing) until they have shown they understand the rules, understand their army and can get the thing painted and based.
I'm not saying this approach is for everyone, but it makes the games much more enjoyable and seems to act as a good incentive for new players to get their act together.

What a great Idea. Besides, no one wants to see a bunch of grey plastic on the table! What size table do ya'll usually play on?

[Lord Castellan]

Our group treats Apocalypse as something you earn when you show dedication to the hobby through playing and painting. We don't let new players participate (except perhaps in a very small fashion, a single squad or vehicle, that sort of thing) until they have shown they understand the rules, understand their army and can get the thing painted and based.
I'm not saying this approach is for everyone, but it makes the games much more enjoyable and seems to act as a good incentive for new players to get their act together.

I wish I could swing that. I game at a GW and though im good friends with the manager and I help run events, I dont know how I can get around the little kids. They contributed to destroying the last game.


Defenestratus, thats an Emperor right?

[SotonShades]

not to mention being able to say I own a Warlord Titan will be rather fulfilling.

Speaking from experience; HELL YEH IT IS! Sorry, got rather overexcited there...

As one of DrLove's regular Apoc opponants/allies, we had a blast. Playing with arelatively balanced amount of Strength D weapons on either side with a group of guys who were used to playing big games was deffinitely worth it. I've been collecting for 13+ years and have ammassed well over 15k of Space Marines in that time; not to mention around 8k of IG and the same again of Orks. Throwing a Warlord in to the mix as well was such a rewarding experience, even if it took me three years to build.

Defenestratus makes a good point though. Far from being an ideal situation for kids to learn how to use their armies, Apoc is much better suited to those who know the rules and how to play, otherwise the game bogs down very quickly. Even if everyone has a force of similar size to what they'd usually play, the games take much longer to play. You really do need people who are going to turn up at the start, play without wandering off (except at dedicated break times, which are almost essential for anything over 6k per side) and are going to stick around til the end of the time/turn limit, even if/when all of their models are dead.

Space is also such a major issue (as DrLove said, our Apoc games have dropped off dramatically since we aren't able to clear out a whole room to use as the board!) and big models, while able to take out big chunks of the opposing force, do seem to take up more room than they have any right to! Case in point;

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/163690_677151144382_286105536_9273588_3045390_n.jp g


One final point from me, a bit more regarding the OP's remarks and questions; Big guns are great, so long as you can dish out what you can take! By this I mean having all the FW models and cool toys in the datasheets is fantastic, so long as your opponant can bring them too. It's no fun being the chaos player with no superheavies facing off against 7 Baneblades and a mixed SM/IG force that matches your own. As such I'd only advise getting a FW titan as a modelling project rather than a gaming piece, unless your gaming group have a few super heavies all ready. Who knows, you may inspire your mates to get one of thewir own, evening up the score for a fair fight. If you insist on bringing the biggest gun to the fight without your opponants having an appropriate response you may quickly find you aren't invited to play toy soldiers with all the other boys.

As a sub-note; when I do take my warlord to open invite games, I always check with the game organiser/store manager first. Only had one 'no way it will be too powerful' so far, so never really been too much of a problem. Even when I do get to bring it I tend to concentrate on killing the other big guns off first. I let the kid who only has 1 squad of Space Wolves and a dreadnought play a bit longer rather than blasting him off the board before he's even had a chance to move. The guy with the full armoured company and 3 Banblade varients? Not so much :cool: Don't worry, i try to encourage them to do this too. Those big games Defenestratus mentioned can become a hell of confusing dice rolls, but if a couple of the Vets and big hitters can have a gentleman's agreement to fight each other for the most part while keeping an ad-hoc command structure (even helping the kids out on the opposing side to keep things going, not that they'll believe you are actually trying to help them at first :P) they can still be a lot of fun.

[wittdooley]

Emperor Titan? Is that bigger than an Imperator? What are all the classes of Titans? Is this right:

Knight
Warhound
Reaver
Warlord
Imperator
Emperor

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Emperor Titan? Is that bigger than an Imperator? What are all the classes of Titans? Is this right:

Knight
Warhound
Reaver
Warlord
Imperator
Emperor

The Emperor (from what I've read) is a variant of the Imperator class, their is a second variant that I don't know the name of too D:

[Defenestratus]

Its a beefed up Emperor Titan. It has 8 void shields and 15 structure points. It has the two shown primary weapons plus 6 carapace weapons and an orbital defense laser mouned on the cathedral (out of picture).

In our last game it went down in the 3rd round - along with all the rest of their titans. Then the changling took control of my phantom and blew away my other titans.

I hate that dude.

[Lord Castellan]

Emperor Titan? Is that bigger than an Imperator? What are all the classes of Titans? Is this right:

Knight
Warhound
Reaver
Warlord
Imperator
Emperor

No, the Imperator is an Emperor. It goes like this:
Knight
Warhound
Reaver
Warlord
Emperor

The Imperator, and the Warmongeror are the two different classes of Emperor. So an Emperor will either be an Imperator or a Warmongeror


SotonShades Ive actually heard people say Apoc is the way to learn which just baffles me. Kill Teams is the way to learn, Apoc is for Vets. It was designed for Vets and only Vets should aspire to play it.

Also, one of your space issues might come from your Warlord being too big. Unless im not looking at it right its a wee bit over sized. What are it's measurements? Dont get me wrong it still looks cool, no offense meant at all. Just a bit too huge.


Its a beefed up Emperor Titan. It has 8 void shields and 15 structure points. It has the two shown primary weapons plus 6 carapace weapons and an orbital defense laser mouned on the cathedral (out of picture).

In our last game it went down in the 3rd round - along with all the rest of their titans. Then the changling took control of my phantom and blew away my other titans.

I hate that dude.

Id love a full picture if you can :)

[Lerra]

You can still play Apoc even if your friends only have 1500 point armies. My favorite way to play Apoc is 4v4, with 1500-2k points each (~7-8k per side). The games aren't too long, and we can bring our superheavy toys (just make sure you have roughly equal points worth of superheavies on each side).

My last Apoc game was 30 people who each brought 1000 points. 30k points on a table is more than enough, imo. Past that point you are talking about multi-day events.

[Gotthammer]

I have a Warhound, a Reaver, a Stompa and I'm currently building a Phantom (http://collegiatitanica.blogspot.com/search/label/Phantom%20Titan).

I've only fielded by Reaver three times, and my Warhound half a dozen or so, and that's plenty for me. That said I mostly got them to paint, so enjoy just having them on the shelf. However if you game as your primary goal, maybe not.

[DarkLink]

Apoc is boring. You spend three hours putting a bunch of minis on the board, then immediately take them off as they get blown away. But only if by immediate you means "wait around for six hours to finish rolling all the dice first".

Team games using normal rules and local tournaments are much more fun than wasting a day or two on an Apoc game.

[sangrail777]

I've got 7 armies all worth 10,000 or more- BA by far the largest, Necrons, Black Legion, Tau, Cadian 108th Regiment, Orks, Tyranids.
Also some smaller armies of Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights around 1,000 each.
I also have:
2 Reavers
2 Warhounds
2 Thunderbolts
2 Hellblades
1 Thunderhawk
2 Necron Pylons
2 stompas
2 baneblades

I had most of this well before apoc.
Think it's great they came out with it. Gives me the chance to field alot of my armies alll together.

[Col_Festus]

Unfortunately I just cannot get into Apoc. I've played the game for almost 16 years and I have a huge collection but the system simply makes me want to eat glass instead. It's not balanced at all so you need to either heavily modify it with house rules, or have an extreme understanding with your opponents.

Titans and super heavies are not pointed according to normal codex entries. They are pointed according to themselves. This makes things extremely unbalanced if one side has a Titan or something. Same goes for D weapons. They are hideously over powered and make the game very unfun if you do not have one. So the answer is to bring Str D weapons of your own and make the game more unfun! It's kind of like stopping the threat of nuclear attack with your own nukes.. but you use them on each other anyway.

I'm hoping they rebalance apoc and really bring it into line with the current rules so that 6th edition we wont have a need for all these silly add ones. We will have 1 core rule set for buildings, squadrons, super heavies, fliers, attacking fortified positions, making planet fall etc, but that's just my 2 cents.

[Defenestratus]

Also, one of your space issues might come from your Warlord being too big. Unless im not looking at it right its a wee bit over sized. What are it's measurements? Dont get me wrong it still looks cool, no offense meant at all. Just a bit too huge.

Check your PM's for pics. I spam it enough as it is. People are sick of seeing it I think.

As for its size, its built to the Epic (Space Marine) scale. Meaning that its probably about 5' tall in total. As for it being "too big", I can't disagree more. Huge models are so awesome. This one takes up a corner in the LGS and sits there lording over all the games being played.

The table space wasn't challenged on the Chaos side. It was over crowded on the Imperial side. We had over 25 leman russes, 6 baneblade variants, a phantom titan, a revenant, some Eldar super heavies... 20 grav tanks... and over 350 guardsman crammed on our side.

And we were trying to stay as far away as possible from the choppy space marines. Evil *******s.

[Denzark]

Apocalypse - awesome. My mucker and I have discovered that for 2 man apocalypse the best points for us to be manageable was 8k per side, this tends to be 3-4k normal and the rest psychos and super heavies.

\our next match (which I am trying to entice him to), when we draw the line across the table, I will place Mighty Fortress sections in a linear fashion. This of course will be the imperial palace walls which I will assault with Chaos...

[Demonus]

lmao that titan is bigger than most 5 year olds.

[Lane]

Now I just need to get that Titan crew :P


You mean like this?

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af129/lmshutt/Misc%20models/TitanCrew1.jpg

Don't bother asking, the answer is no.

[Lord Castellan]

You mean like this?

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af129/lmshutt/Misc%20models/TitanCrew1.jpg

Don't bother asking, the answer is no.

Not yours Lane :P

I still want your Reaver though

[Lexington]

I've had both the best and worst gaming experiences of my life playing Apocalypse. In essence, it's a blast if you play it with the right people - those who understand its shortcomings, are willing to put some narrative elements in play to make things more exciting, and above all, undertand that having a good time means not steamrolling your opponent(s). If you start bringing anything resembling a technical, legalistic understanding of the rules into it, you're better off chewing cyanide while diving head-first into an exploding sawmill filled with angry porcupines. I've never seen so many grown men acting like utter children.


I'm hoping they rebalance apoc and really bring it into line with the current rules so that 6th edition we wont have a need for all these silly add ones. We will have 1 core rule set for buildings, squadrons, super heavies, fliers, attacking fortified positions, making planet fall etc, but that's just my 2 cents.
Yeah. This. What he said. Perfect. :D

[eldargal]

Hm, good question. I'd ask my brothers if they weren't still in bed. I think the smallest we use something like 8x16 and get more of them for larger matches. One huge board looks fantastic but is hard to use as I'm sure you know. My brothers did toy with having suspended harnessed dangling from the ceiling so we could hover over the board but it was incredibly uncomfortable. Which I did tell them before they started but, you know, boys.:rolleyes:


What a great Idea. Besides, no one wants to see a bunch of grey plastic on the table! What size table do ya'll usually play on?

Gotthammer, I like your female Farseer, its almost identical to mine except I used a female Elf head (this was pre the new DE).:) Also good job with the Phantom. I can manage a revenent but I think I will get one of my brothers to assemble my Phantoms when I get them.

[SotonShades]

SotonShades Ive actually heard people say Apoc is the way to learn which just baffles me. Kill Teams is the way to learn, Apoc is for Vets. It was designed for Vets and only Vets should aspire to play it.

Also, one of your space issues might come from your Warlord being too big. Unless im not looking at it right its a wee bit over sized. What are it's measurements? Dont get me wrong it still looks cool, no offense meant at all. Just a bit too huge.

Id love a full picture if you can :)

Mine is approximately 48" tall, with a 12"x15" base. When I designed it, it was going to be more like 28"-32" tall but it kinda grew as I found bits of polystyrene that were a nice shape. lol.

That sword is about twice the length of a baneblade :D always fun.

[Archon Charybdis]

Apocalypse can be immensely fun, but it does require a mature group of players, and a fair bit of house ruling to fit your tastes. Bad Apocalypse games can be the most frustrating 40K experience you'll have, but when done right they're easily the most memorable and entertaining. There's a few things you'll want to consider before you start a game:

1.) Balancing Super-heavies and D weapons.

Super-heavies and D weapons are generally much better for their points value than regular models. To keep things balanced, at the very least you want to make sure you have an equal number of heavies/D-weapons per side. Some groups just out and out ban d weapons, and while that can be very effective for making the game more balanced, it's a major buzz kill for the people who spent time and money building and painting their super heavy. You might also consider house-ruling D weapons to be less powerful than as written in the Apocalypse rulebook.

2.) Using abilities between allies

Like in any game with more than 2 players, you should come to a decision beforehand about whether or not allies' special rules can affect friendly models of a different army. Personally, I'd say the simplest and most balanced thing is to say your rules only affect your army. The rules definitely weren't written taking into account TH/SS termis being Fortune'd by a Farseer, or a Sanguinary Priest with his bubble running alongside 3 or 4 horde units of Orks or Nids.

3.) Strategic Assets

Most of the strategic assets are cool and fairly balanced, but there's a handful that are just stupidly good. Flank March, Null Field Generator, Disruptor Beacon, and Vortex Grenade (YMMV). Most places I've been to just outright ban Flank March, it's ridiculously good. Null Field Generator and Disruptor Beacon require physical markers that have the downside of being able to be destroyed, but a lot of times they only need to be around for a turn or two to royally screw someone and completely destroy their fun. Consider banning them or rewriting them.

4.) Scoring

Figure out how you want to handle scoring units. Apocalypse was written during 4th ed, when it wasn't just troops that could score, and in Apocalypse Reload they give a few suggestions on how to handle scoring in the new edition. I find requiring troops for scoring tends to create more balanced armies, which is usually better if you have only a few players who are each bringing big 4k+ armies. But depending on if you have more people, or if you're capping armies at only 2-3K, you might want everything to be scoring. Everything being scoring allows people can bring the crazy fun units while still keeping their army a manageable size.

Apocalypse definitely takes preparation, but there's nothing better than a giant narrative game with a cool scenario.

[Xas]

If apocalypse is worth it for you is something you have to decide yourself.

If you allready have 1+ 2000k armies but still want something more for the hobby there isnt much difference between getting anoth army for 400+ bucks or a few supersized FW modells for apocalypse in terms of "usefull". You cannot play two armies in a normal game and you cannot play apoc models in a normal game.

If you want to try a new playstyle you'd mostly go for a new army, if you want big modells then that.



One thing about apocalypse however is that it strictly isnt for n00bs. It hasnt anything to do with arrogance but unexperienced players do not fit apoc. Why?

They will not have fun because all the concepts of a normal game are enhanced exponentially. Take only for a tiny example the "issue" of superheavies concieved as overpowered. The problem is not the superheavy but the amounth of anti-tank you need to get it down and the concentration of power it provides.

You can take allmost any superheavy and compare it to the same points worth of IG tanks&artillery and the small vehicles will have similar if not more firepower and the added bonus that you can hardly ever kill more than one with a single source were a superheavy can have multiple SP knocked off by a single shot with chain reactions. how many leman russes can a trimelta vet squad kill? one. how many SP will the same squad knock off a baneblade? easily 1-3.

Next is distances. In a normal game of 40k missjudging distance to an objective usually isnt that hughe a problem since even slow infantry can get to most places within a few turns due to run move. On big apoc tables distances and therefore deployment can make a hughe impact because it is easy for some short range/melee units to be completely useless because they are guranteed to not arrive in time (add in low turn numbers on badly organized games with limited turns and it gets worse).

Last but not least is simply scale. A unit that is kickass in normale games of 40k and allmost overkill to include even one might be only seen as "mediocre" in a game of apocalypse due to the sice of the game. 10 nobbikers+waaghboss or 10 TH/SS termies with assorted charackters are my main examples. in a normal game those are hard as nails to get rid of over multiple turns if you focus only on that unit. in apocalypse some formations (with special rules or just a chunk of units working together like say 10 leman russes regardless of apoc datasheet or not or 3 crusaders with 18 terminators of your choice) can whipe those off the board without breaking a sweat within one turn (and those are also the sizes of formations you want to employ versus superheavies. nothing stops a reaver/warlord better than 5 serpents with 45 bs4 and 5 bs5 meltaguns with tank hunter. yes 4 of them will get shot down but the 5th will hit home and kill it!).

This are all the things that make apoc unfun for inexperienced players. In return inexperienced ones make the game unfun to the others by delaying stuff with rules questions (there is much need in apo to houserule so no time to explain CORE rules on top of it!) or spreading bad feelings cause they cannot cope with the above or getting "bossed around" by those people who understand the scope and tell them to do the right things.

I also think apo is only good for people who like tanks/walkers/monsters as infantry is very limited by the timeframe (its much faster to move and shoot with 3 titans and 20 tanks/artillery vehicles than it is to move 300+ gaunts/boy. IG isnt that bad as their infantry often only has to be deployed/removed and remains stationarry but the issue is still the same).


You might have guessed by now but I love apoc and own several Titans (atm working on the Titan Maniple out of the Vraks books) and other battleformations only ever usefull in apoc (~10 leman russes and as many artillery tanks as well as half a dozen manticores/deathstrikes).

What I think is most important is that you and your gaming partners take the time and adapt the whole game to your needs beforehand. There are many things that you might want to talk about and change. Examples are stratagems, reserve rules, objectives, timelimits on turns, army/board wide abilities, turn sequences (we included run and charge into the movement of a unit in a system similarto WHFB to cut down the time to move units and debate over beeing in range to charge or not) and even core elements like unit/weapon stats (I did a hughe overhaul of all the titan-based weapons to streamline them and get rid of the PITA that destroyer templates are to everyone and level the playing field so every titanw eapon is desirable and "fluff" plas+bolter warhounds are as usefull as "killer" quadlas ones).


"Plain apocalypse" out of the book is only fun if you enjoy doing hughe mass-battles with no sense of balance favouring those who take the time to read the rules, think about it and buy proper units. Even with adapted rules you'll ahve to have a group of people all willing to invest into apo-sized armies (as said above your one squad of firedragons woon't cut it in a 8k game and the 30 youll need wont be used often in normal games!)

[Gotthammer]

Gotthammer, I like your female Farseer, its almost identical to mine except I used a female Elf head (this was pre the new DE).:) Also good job with the Phantom. I can manage a revenent but I think I will get one of my brothers to assemble my Phantoms when I get them.

Thanks :) I'm pretty happy with how she turned out and I'm a big fan of that head (I used it on my Archon too ;) ).

The Phantom isn't very hard to put together, it's really just a big Revenant from my experience with that kit. I've got her almost built with only three days worth of work:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/40k/Phan25.jpg

(some of this is just dry-fitted for show).


And I've got to second that Apoc works best with a group you can trust not to be jerks, and with a fair bit of self restraint and a healthy dose of pre-planning and house ruling.
When I field my Reaver I only ever take one StrD weapon, and don't have any on my Warhound.

[Defenestratus]

Do you get more than one faceplate in the kit, like you do for the Revenant?

[Gotthammer]

Just the one.

[Gir]

I wish I could swing that. I game at a GW and though im good friends with the manager and I help run events, I dont know how I can get around the little kids. They contributed to destroying the last game.

My local GW has a solution: For 24 hour trading on christmas eve, they have a game that you need to register for the runs from 2am until around 6am. It was epic fun last year, watching my friend fail 3++ invaun save after invaun save on his hieorphant as it got blasted apart by a Revernant.