Need help: Grey Knights weapon loadouts?

[Wildcard]

Hi!

I would like to hear your opinions and - more importantly - reasoning for taking various weapon upgrades for different grey knight units. In what kind of situations would you take what weapons and WHY! It could be general, multipurpose loadout, or a case against your own nemesis( =friend you play against most).
One of the reasons why I would like to get the discussion going is that ive seen many lists that have 2x weapon x, 2x weapon y, maybe 1x weapon z, and always atleast 1x weapon h. Why are these options so spread out? Is it really that good option to exchange force weapon and stormbolter for psycannon( not to mention the psilencer) if - due to your small force anyway - you have to keep moving all the time?

I would like to see this topic revolve only around Grey Knights, so please leave Inquisitors and their henchmen out of the equations.

Also, i do not wish vehicles to be drawn into the conversation, unless they are the keypoint why would you choose such a loadout..

Those blunt "because of +1A, or +2I" - answers are not wished in here, although you can point out the bonuses somehow along the lines:

"..because it is the most important thing that you strike first against an army/enemy X, hence the halberds for +2I to maximise your survivability / effect of your assault.."

The units i am mostly interested in your opinions are:
-Purifiers, Terminators, Paladins:
And their weapon options:
-Sword, Halberd, Hammer, Falchions, Staff,( and Banner), Psilenser, Psycannon

However, you can, if you like, extend your prime loadout info to Strike Squads, Interceptors and Purgation squads. And ofcourse, you can include non-named HQ-options as a part of your scheme (i.ex "No need for halberds for all my squads will be near enough for one of my 2 librarians w/ quicksilver" etc..)

While point costs are not the issue here, you can still point out if something is intended to be "cheap but effective" or a "Deathstar combination".
Also, I would like you to pay a note to the gear you give or will never give to the Justicar / Knight of the Flame. (Like: "I would never give my only Hammer in the squad to a Justicar, because I will lose it anyway on turn 1 to perils of the warp" :) )

Thanks for the good conversation in advance!

PS. If you are a non GK-player, then feel free to say on a squad level what kinds of setups have caused you grey hair (other than "i've had once or twice some problem removing 10x Paladins with apothecary + librarian contesting an objective that was placed in 3+ cover)

[DarkLink]

For shooting weapons:
1. Never take psilencers on power armor guys, ever. Ever. E. V. E. R.
2. Take as many psycannons as you can.
3. Incinerators are cool, but psycannons are better in basically every way, so take psycannons instead.
4. If you have a weapon other than a psycannon, replace it with a psycannon.
5. Why do you have a psilencer? Why? Drop it. Take something good instead. Like a psycannon.


Close combat weapons are a little tricker.

Hammers: 1 per large squad of power armor dudes, 1 per 5 terminators.

Halberds: Take on Purifiers (not required, but nice). Default weapon on terminators. Don't bother on GKSS/Interceptors.

Swords: Default on GKSS/Interceptors. Take on Purifiers, if you need to save a few points. Take 1-2 per Terminator squad.

Staves: Only take if you know the squad will see lots of cc and won't be getting shot to death or overwhelmed wither one 2++ won't matter.

Falchions: Might want to wait for the FAQ to see what GW does when it sorts out all its messups. If it grants +2A, then consider it as an alternative to the Halberd, otherwise don't bother. If it is +2A, then it's the only weapon other than the Hammer I'd take on GKSS.



Banner: Only worth it on large squads of guys. If you have 7+ terminators, take it, otherwise save the points elsewhere.


Edit:
As for HQ's, I would stick with the Sword. Your CC power is not vested in your HQ's offensive ability. Keep your HQ alive so you can continue to benefit from grenades and psychic powers. The Stave is probably too expensive, though, unless your opponent is really trying to kill your HQ in CC.

[Sisiutl]

I'd like a million dollars and a pony

[Wildcard]

@Darklink: Thanks, that seems like a pretty good summary, ill have to browse through the codex now, and redesign my purifiers and terminators :)

@Sisiutl: Try as i might, i just can't find that helpfull in any way, thanks for the contribution regardless..

[KingStuart]

For me I really like Falchions on Purifiers (assuming it is +2A) seeing as what they really need when fighting hordes is more attacks not higher initiative. Plus I would always run a librarian so if they ever really need to go first I can just quicksilver them.

Strike squads will usually have a deamonhammer on the justicar, I feel the extra attack more than makes up for the chance of dieing. Other than that I won't bother with combat upgrades as these guys are really a shooty unit hence why I'd always take psycannonns losing the force weapons.

I agree with Darklink with regard to psycannons. Just take them.

Terminator load out is where it gets interesting. Again if falchions are +2A I like them for 5 points. If not I'd just keep the sword myself as these guys are usually hanging out with my Librarian with might and quicksilver.

As for characters I keep the sword, the grandmaster loves his 3++ and for the Libby it isn't worth the points IMO.

If not using a Librarian I would think more about using Hammers and halberds on terminators, though I havent really experimented with the mix of the three types.

As for staves they are very useful for dealing with marine squads as they tend to only be able to deal a few power weapon attacks in assault. Amusingly these work best in smaller squads as the wrap arond happens sooner.

[Revarien]

Most of this applies to gray wing (sorry if I ramble a bit):
I've had great success (and slightly despised for this) with multi-loadout paladins/terminators... it is so easy to get a whole squad kitted out in multiple gear options for wound allocation breakdown.

I just make sure I have a hammer in each squad due to a glaring lack of powerfist (though remember you have gernades! Not the best option, but you have them even in terminator armor) and you're bumped to 10 str with hammerhand due to it's odd math rule of adding first and then multiplying.

Psykotroke gernades are amazing! The chart is random and of course you're not going to always get the best thing, but if you get a 2, 3, 5, and sometimes 6, you can really shape things in your favor. I've had entire assaults from a hordes of gaunts turn in my favor simply because of a 2 on pyskotrokes (should have lost those fights) while my xenos inquisitor was with some paladins. Tech marines and xenos inquisitors, along with grand masters and brother captains can take these... use them!

Rad gernades combined with hammerhand make for one heck of a potent combo... just be sure you use hammerhand or save your psyker power for a force weapon activation as needed... otherwise you might waste 1 or 2 that get through on not insta-killing a big baddie. Tech marines and xenos inquisitors, along with grand masters and brother captains can take these... use them too!

Also, every squad I put together, whether it be the interceptors or just your base troops, be sure you have that one model loaded differently to take that nasty insta-death volley.... a sword amongst a sea of halberds can save an entire unit sometimes (hey that one sword can take the nasty 'no armor save' hits while the other troops can field the normal saves... so long as it wraps back around on them).

The wargear options and wound allocation are done that way for a reason... use it. I've played about 6 1500 point games with paladins, draigo, a dreadknight (more on this in a second), 1 ordos xenos inquisitor, and a band of deathcult with 2 warriors with Meltas... and won 4/6 games, tied one, and lost one due to my own stupidity (remember kids: psykout gernades... you have them!). The games go pretty fast, but honestly, draigo is overcosted for what he can do... a Brother captain with termies and a paladin support squad is way better, imo... not to mention you get access to servo skulls and more psykotrokes. Not to mention getting transports (imo a stormraven to just get them close is nice... even from reserve... if it lives, then better for you... load it as a tank hunter and goto town, otherwise, it is the delivery unit).

As far as the Dreadknight... I've had mixed success and failure. First, it's big, so a Massive target on the field... people gun for it just due to it's size and close combat tank killing power. Second, I hate to admit this, but it dies to trash. It really does... it isn't the big honking gun or the Monstrous Creature that kills this thing... but tons of little shots... strength 3 hurts this thing folks and all it takes is an errant squad of cheap guants to take this thing down, not to mention that it can get bogged down easy. Third, to keep it from getting killed by trash, load it with a jump pack... just to make sure you can keep away from little tidal waves of trash either killing it or bogging it down.

Other observations: Death Cult Assassins are MACHINES. I know I'm all about wound allocation, but if you have the free points, don't put warrior acolytes with them except for maybe a meltagun or two. Just don't forget... go for stuff on the open field as assaulting into terrain with them will get the squad wiped fast... also if you're playing against them, you better stick to cover or they'll mess ya up pretty fast. A squad of 9 plus 2 warriors with meltas and an inquisitor with rad, and pyskotrokes, with hammerhand = death on wheels (just be sure to give them wheels!). Also... remember they won't take down anything with initiative modifiers either... that is one of their big strengths (along with hitting mostly on 3s and wounding on 3s-4s most of the time).

Sorry if a lot of that came off as general/vague, or even incoherent.

[fuzzbuket]

for power armour falchoins or halbards are a must! swords are only useful in CC but are fairly rubbish and are USELUSS ON Power armour. staves are a wast of points (i only use them to protect the hvy weapons guys in CC) remember

SWORDS AND STAVES ONLY WORK IN CC
and for old timey GKplayer
YOUR DUEDSMEN ARE NO LONGER S6 AND 2ATTACKS DONT GO CHARGING GREATED DAEMONS AND FEXES!'

because Gk are an elitest army i like falchions and psylincers because of the anount of shots you can unload, incinerators because of the template!
oh and 1 paladin all alone with a hamemr is fun!
and for interceptors and terminators always get the charge and either
a) wioe out the enemy in 1 turn and conslidate out of shooty range
b) almost wipe out the enemy then in theire turn finish them and continue to charge another unit!

[Lemt]

GKSSs are to be kept simple. I like giving 10 of them a Hammer and two Psycannons, riding in a Rhino. It's tempting to make them expensive giving them lots of toys, but you're usually better off using the points elsewhere. This loadout allows you to split the squad into a shooty squad that stays behind and an assault squad that rides the Rhino to battle.
10-man Interceptor Squads can be given 4 Incinerators, 4 Psycannons, or a 2/2 split. This allows them to shunt and shoot at something. What weapon loadout you give them depends on the intended target. If you fight against mostly MEQ or mech armies, you want the Psycannons.
Terminators are good with 3 Halberds and a Hammer, or 4 Halberds and a Hammer, plus a Psycannon. The Falchions are an option, but not having a 3++ save hurts against CC specialists. Halberds will allow you to strike first or at the same time as the target, and the hammer(s) give more flexibility.

[DarkLink]

for power armour falchoins or halbards are a must! swords are only useful in CC but are fairly rubbish and are USELUSS ON Power armour. staves are a wast of points (i only use them to protect the hvy weapons guys in CC) remember



because Gk are an elitest army i like falchions and psylincers because of the anount of shots you can unload, incinerators because of the template!

...read this, and do the exact opposite.

[Lemt]

...read this, and do the exact opposite.

Read this, and... yeah, Darklink's right.

[DarkLink]

There's just no nice way to put it. Swords are the only good option on GKSS because they're cheap. You may not get an invulnerable save from them, but that's why they're cheap. Not expensive, like all Halberds or Falchions would be. Cheap.

GKSS are not a close combat unit. Trying to turn them into one is a waste of points. A 220pt unit of GKSS is very good. A 320pt unit of the exact same 10 models, just with a bunch of mediocre upgrades slapped on, is not.



As for weapons, psilencers are just horrible, and they're about three times as horrible on power armor guys. If you can't figure out why yourself... I don't know how to help you. I don't know why Ward even bothered to put this in the codex.

Incinerators are one of the best template weapons in the game, but they don't provide what GKs really need. GKs need to be able to a) open tanks, and b) move and shoot effectively out to 24", and c) be competent in cc. All guns are equal for point (c), and psycannons are significantly better at (a) and (b) than Incinerators. Psycannons are cheaper on GKSS, too.

It's not that Incinerators are bad. It's that Grey Knights need psycannons, and every Incinerator you take is a psycannon that you don't.

[jmach]

Yea basically what darklink posted.

My standard GKSS layout is:
10x GKSS
-2x psycannon
-psybolt ammo
-Daemonhammer for justicar
-Rhino transport
In my opinion if you buy anything other than that for the strike squad it's a waste. Also only buy the psybolt ammo for them if you run a full squad of them, if you buy psybolt ammo for units of 5 guys you're wasting your points.

I tend to like a heavy incinerator with a dreadknight if I run one and it has a personal teleporter. But yea like darklink said, if you can, take the psycannon.

[Wildcard]

Then, if you would take Crow to get purifiers as troops, would you give them the following loadout:

10x Purifier
-4x Psycannon
-Psybolt ammo
-Daemonhammer for knight of the flame
-Rhino

..Or would you equip them in some other manner, and if you had purifiers as troops, would you still use GKSS as a solid firesquad, or leave those out entirely?

[ankhcitizen]

It seems that purifiers are a strike squad on pcp just better all round but at a higher cost of course. If you're running Crowe who makes purifiers a troops choice taking strike squads may not be the way to go with the purifiers as the alternative. :)

[Lemt]

I don't think Psybolt ammo is that good, at least on infantry. Take Purifiers. You want them to have 4 Psycannons, so only 6 Benefit from the extra power. Against MEQs, you deal 1.33 wounds without psybolt, 1.77 wounds with psybolt ammo. Against armor 10, you deal a bit more damage, but the Psycannons will deal so much more damage the psybolt is redundant.
So those points are usually better spent elsewhere.

[DarkLink]

Psybolt ammo doesn't really become worth it until about 8 dudes, and even then it's far from necessary. If you have 10 guys and you don't want to give them psycannons for whatever reason (so they're more potent in CC), but they're still going to be spending time outside of a vehicle then I'd take them.

[Bean]

For shooting weapons:
1. Never take psilencers on power armor guys, ever. Ever. E. V. E. R.
2. Take as many psycannons as you can.
3. Incinerators are cool, but psycannons are better in basically every way, so take psycannons instead.
4. If you have a weapon other than a psycannon, replace it with a psycannon.
5. Why do you have a psilencer? Why? Drop it. Take something good instead. Like a psycannon.


Close combat weapons are a little tricker.

Hammers: 1 per large squad of power armor dudes, 1 per 5 terminators.

Halberds: Take on Purifiers (not required, but nice). Default weapon on terminators. Don't bother on GKSS/Interceptors.

Swords: Default on GKSS/Interceptors. Take on Purifiers, if you need to save a few points. Take 1-2 per Terminator squad.

Staves: Only take if you know the squad will see lots of cc and won't be getting shot to death or overwhelmed wither one 2++ won't matter.

Falchions: Might want to wait for the FAQ to see what GW does when it sorts out all its messups. If it grants +2A, then consider it as an alternative to the Halberd, otherwise don't bother. If it is +2A, then it's the only weapon other than the Hammer I'd take on GKSS.



Banner: Only worth it on large squads of guys. If you have 7+ terminators, take it, otherwise save the points elsewhere.


Edit:
As for HQ's, I would stick with the Sword. Your CC power is not vested in your HQ's offensive ability. Keep your HQ alive so you can continue to benefit from grenades and psychic powers. The Stave is probably too expensive, though, unless your opponent is really trying to kill your HQ in CC.

This is exactly correct. Always follow these instructions.

[Mr.Pickelz]

i personally keep my termys equipped differently for wound allocation shenanigans;
10x termys
6x halberds
2x psycannons
1x banner
1x DH (MC'd)

One psycannon goes on a halberd and the other on a sword so you have 6 differently equipped models in one squad. however i do believe this unit will run you 475-480 on points though. :(

[Bean]

I've been building a paladin army with Draigo, and my squads are:

Paladin with Psycannon and Halberd
Paladin with Psycannon and Sword
Paladin with Halberd
Paladin with Sword
Paladin with Hammer

It's 315 points and pretty good. Extra points can go to mastercrafting the psycannons, then mastercrafting the hammers.