YourMomsBox
04-22-2011, 12:43 AM
Was looking pretty solidly through the codex, and was surprised at the number of ways to be taking out Armor thats been pretty heavy with all armies now a days.
Let's look at some of their Codex specific options that can target all armor ranges.
Shooting:
1) (AV 10-14) Jokaero w/ their Lascannon/Multimelta universal weapon
2) (AV 10-14) Orbital Strike Relay - Lance Strike
3) (AV 10-14) Librarian - Warp Rift
4) (AV 10-14) 5 or more Psykers - Psychic Barrage
5) (AV 10-14) Vindicare Assassin - Turbo Penetrator
6) (AV 10-14) Daemonhost - Unholy Gaze
Close combat:
1) (AV 10-14) Any Grey Knight using Might of Titan [+1S plus extra D6 AP]
2) (AV 10-14) Brother Captain Stern - Zone of Banishment [Only works against Walkers, or other units with a Strength value]
3) (AV 10-14) Banisher using Might of Titan [a whopping S8 plus 3D6 AP]
A great use of Shooting is to take a Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor with a Psyocculum and a Conversion Beamer. Shooting at any Psyker or unit containing a Psyker, take the Scatter from your Conversion Beamer and subtract the BS 10, and you basically have an auto-hitting S 10 AP 1 killer. Want more bang for your buck? Try adding some Techmarines, say 3 with Orbital Strike Relays. Now your hitting any Psyker unit with 4 S 10 AP 1 shots, enough to wipe out any unit. Want more leeway, then use the Psyk-out Bomb, and you have 3 automatic Perils of the Warp attacks in addition to everything else. Mass troops with that Psyker? Then use the D3 Large Blast Barrage Bomb for potentially 9 Large Blast Blasts hitting that squad. This is great for placing the first blast on the end of a mixed-Psyker squad and potentially taking out an additional unit nearby with the multiple-blast effect. If you want to go 'overkill', you could always take a Henchmen Warband loaded with Space Monkeys with BS 10 Lascannons.
The question I have, is if a Psyker is in a transport, can he be targeted by the Psyocculum? If so, so much for that Land Raider giving you protection.
All numbers assuming the +1 Attack for charging. As for close combat, the best tank-killer (against AV 10) I can see is taking a Libby w/ Daemon Hammer (Hammerhand/Might of Titan), and Coteaz (Hammerhand) w/ 12 Arco-Flagellants and now you have 60 S7 2D6 AP attacks as well as Coteaz's 3 S5 2D6 AP master-crafted Daemon Hammer attacks and the Libby's Daemon Hammer attacks as well. If Auto-hitting, your looking at 58 Glances or 56 Pens. Pretty solid. Hitting on 6's, you're still looking at 9 Pens.
Against AV 14, then you want the Librarian and Coteaz from above, but take Banishers w/ Eviscerators. This can get pricey at 30 pts/model, but even a squad of 6 can do 12 S10 3D6 AP hits. Is the AP over-kill, yes, but if you want to make sure that Land Raider or Monolith isn't moving, or even against an AV 14 Building, there's no better way, short of using a Dread Knight.
What other ideas has anyone else come up with?
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Basic Banishers w/ their S6 + 2 D6 AP AV 10 91% Penetrating 83%
12 72% Penetrating 58%
14 42% Penetrating 28%
Banishers w/ Might of Titan + Hammerhand S8 + 3D6 AP AV 10 Auto- Penetrating
12 98% Penetrating 94%
14 96% Penetrating 74%
10 Arco-flagellants w/ 50 Attacks on the charge against an AV 10 Vehicle gives us:
Glances Pens
Auto-hit: 8.3 None
4+: 4.2
6+: 1.3
Was looking pretty solidly through the codex, and was surprised at the number of ways to be taking out Armor thats been pretty heavy with all armies now a days.
Let's look at some of their Codex specific options that can target all armor ranges.
Shooting:
1) (AV 10-14) Jokaero w/ their Lascannon/Multimelta universal weapon
2) (AV 10-14) Orbital Strike Relay - Lance Strike
3) (AV 10-14) Librarian - Warp Rift
4) (AV 10-14) 5 or more Psykers - Psychic Barrage
5) (AV 10-14) Vindicare Assassin - Turbo Penetrator
6) (AV 10-14) Daemonhost - Unholy Gaze
Close combat:
1) (AV 10-14) Any Grey Knight using Might of Titan [+1S plus extra D6 AP]
2) (AV 10-14) Brother Captain Stern - Zone of Banishment [Only works against Walkers, or other units with a Strength value]
3) (AV 10-14) Banisher using Might of Titan [a whopping S8 plus 3D6 AP]
A great use of Shooting is to take a Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor with a Psyocculum and a Conversion Beamer. Shooting at any Psyker or unit containing a Psyker, take the Scatter from your Conversion Beamer and subtract the BS 10, and you basically have an auto-hitting S 10 AP 1 killer. Want more bang for your buck? Try adding some Techmarines, say 3 with Orbital Strike Relays. Now your hitting any Psyker unit with 4 S 10 AP 1 shots, enough to wipe out any unit. Want more leeway, then use the Psyk-out Bomb, and you have 3 automatic Perils of the Warp attacks in addition to everything else. Mass troops with that Psyker? Then use the D3 Large Blast Barrage Bomb for potentially 9 Large Blast Blasts hitting that squad. This is great for placing the first blast on the end of a mixed-Psyker squad and potentially taking out an additional unit nearby with the multiple-blast effect. If you want to go 'overkill', you could always take a Henchmen Warband loaded with Space Monkeys with BS 10 Lascannons.
The question I have, is if a Psyker is in a transport, can he be targeted by the Psyocculum? If so, so much for that Land Raider giving you protection.
All numbers assuming the +1 Attack for charging. As for close combat, the best tank-killer (against AV 10) I can see is taking a Libby w/ Daemon Hammer (Hammerhand/Might of Titan), and Coteaz (Hammerhand) w/ 12 Arco-Flagellants and now you have 60 S7 2D6 AP attacks as well as Coteaz's 3 S5 2D6 AP master-crafted Daemon Hammer attacks and the Libby's Daemon Hammer attacks as well. If Auto-hitting, your looking at 58 Glances or 56 Pens. Pretty solid. Hitting on 6's, you're still looking at 9 Pens.
Against AV 14, then you want the Librarian and Coteaz from above, but take Banishers w/ Eviscerators. This can get pricey at 30 pts/model, but even a squad of 6 can do 12 S10 3D6 AP hits. Is the AP over-kill, yes, but if you want to make sure that Land Raider or Monolith isn't moving, or even against an AV 14 Building, there's no better way, short of using a Dread Knight.
What other ideas has anyone else come up with?
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Stats below are only for Banishers in C.C. against Vehicles, Arco-flagellants and Death Cult Assassins against vehicles and Troops
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Basic Banishers w/ their S6 + 2 D6 AP AV 10 91% Penetrating 83%
12 72% Penetrating 58%
14 42% Penetrating 28%
Banishers w/ Might of Titan + Hammerhand S8 + 3D6 AP AV 10 Auto- Penetrating
12 98% Penetrating 94%
14 96% Penetrating 74%
5 Banishers w/ 2 Attacks on the charge gives us:
S6+2D6 (Eviscerator) S8+3D6 (Eviscerator + Might of Titan)
Hits Glances Pens Hits Glances Pens
AV 14 Auto-hit: 10 1 1 AV 14 Auto-hit: 10 1 6
4+: 7 0 0 4+: 5 0 3
6+: 1 0 0 6+: 2 0 0.5
As you can see, your ideal AV 14 target is one that is already Immobilized. 5 Banishers w/ Eviscerators is costing us about 150 points (30 per model), so if you want to increase the odds of destroying that Land Raider, make sure you focus on your point total. These guys can still be used as S8 power fist attacks, but as you'll see, we have much better Henchmen for that.
10 Arco-flagellants w/ 50 Attacks on the charge against an AV 10 Vehicle gives us:
Glances Pens w/ Hammerhand (S5) Glances Pens
Auto-hit: 8.3 None Auto-hit: 16.6 8.3
4+: 4.15 4+: 8.3 4.15
6+: 1.3 6+: 2.6 1.3
10 Death Cult Assassins w/ 40 Attacks on the charge against an AV 10 Vehicle gives us:
Glances Pens w/ Hammerhand (S5) Glances Pens
Auto-hit: 6.6 None Auto-hit: 13.3 6.6
4+: 3.3 4+: 6.6 3.3
6+: 1.1 6+: 1.0 0.5
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Against models with basic Armor Saves:
10 Arco-flagellants give you an average of 50 Attacks, 33 Hits and 22 Wounds.
Failed 2+ Saves = 3.6
Failed 3+ Saves = 7.3
Failed 4+ Saves = 11
Failed 5+ Saves = 14.6
Failed 6+ Saves = 18.3
10 Death Cult Assassins w/ power weapons give you an average of 40 Attacks, 27 Hits and 14 Wounds.
Seeing the numbers above, at best against a 6+ Armor Save, you'll potentially get 18 failed saves with the Arcos, whereas with the DCA's and their power weapons you're getting 14 no-save wounds making them (Death Cult Assassins) your best multi-attack unit.
Now against an Invulnerable Save, taking those 14 Wounds and comparing them w/ Failed Invulnerable Saves we get:
Failed invulnerable 2+ Saves = 2.3
Failed invulnerable 3+ Saves = 4.6
Failed invulnerable 4+ Saves = 7
Failed invulnerable 5+ Saves = 9.3
Failed invulnerable 6+ Saves = 11.6
Now against models with ONLY an invulnerable save, you'll want the more Wounds you get with the Arco-flagellants.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Numbers provided are what I came up with. If their wrong :confused:, so be it. I put them there for anyone who isn't as bored as I was, and needed a visual with what I came up with.
Let's look at some of their Codex specific options that can target all armor ranges.
Shooting:
1) (AV 10-14) Jokaero w/ their Lascannon/Multimelta universal weapon
2) (AV 10-14) Orbital Strike Relay - Lance Strike
3) (AV 10-14) Librarian - Warp Rift
4) (AV 10-14) 5 or more Psykers - Psychic Barrage
5) (AV 10-14) Vindicare Assassin - Turbo Penetrator
6) (AV 10-14) Daemonhost - Unholy Gaze
Close combat:
1) (AV 10-14) Any Grey Knight using Might of Titan [+1S plus extra D6 AP]
2) (AV 10-14) Brother Captain Stern - Zone of Banishment [Only works against Walkers, or other units with a Strength value]
3) (AV 10-14) Banisher using Might of Titan [a whopping S8 plus 3D6 AP]
A great use of Shooting is to take a Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor with a Psyocculum and a Conversion Beamer. Shooting at any Psyker or unit containing a Psyker, take the Scatter from your Conversion Beamer and subtract the BS 10, and you basically have an auto-hitting S 10 AP 1 killer. Want more bang for your buck? Try adding some Techmarines, say 3 with Orbital Strike Relays. Now your hitting any Psyker unit with 4 S 10 AP 1 shots, enough to wipe out any unit. Want more leeway, then use the Psyk-out Bomb, and you have 3 automatic Perils of the Warp attacks in addition to everything else. Mass troops with that Psyker? Then use the D3 Large Blast Barrage Bomb for potentially 9 Large Blast Blasts hitting that squad. This is great for placing the first blast on the end of a mixed-Psyker squad and potentially taking out an additional unit nearby with the multiple-blast effect. If you want to go 'overkill', you could always take a Henchmen Warband loaded with Space Monkeys with BS 10 Lascannons.
The question I have, is if a Psyker is in a transport, can he be targeted by the Psyocculum? If so, so much for that Land Raider giving you protection.
All numbers assuming the +1 Attack for charging. As for close combat, the best tank-killer (against AV 10) I can see is taking a Libby w/ Daemon Hammer (Hammerhand/Might of Titan), and Coteaz (Hammerhand) w/ 12 Arco-Flagellants and now you have 60 S7 2D6 AP attacks as well as Coteaz's 3 S5 2D6 AP master-crafted Daemon Hammer attacks and the Libby's Daemon Hammer attacks as well. If Auto-hitting, your looking at 58 Glances or 56 Pens. Pretty solid. Hitting on 6's, you're still looking at 9 Pens.
Against AV 14, then you want the Librarian and Coteaz from above, but take Banishers w/ Eviscerators. This can get pricey at 30 pts/model, but even a squad of 6 can do 12 S10 3D6 AP hits. Is the AP over-kill, yes, but if you want to make sure that Land Raider or Monolith isn't moving, or even against an AV 14 Building, there's no better way, short of using a Dread Knight.
What other ideas has anyone else come up with?
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Basic Banishers w/ their S6 + 2 D6 AP AV 10 91% Penetrating 83%
12 72% Penetrating 58%
14 42% Penetrating 28%
Banishers w/ Might of Titan + Hammerhand S8 + 3D6 AP AV 10 Auto- Penetrating
12 98% Penetrating 94%
14 96% Penetrating 74%
10 Arco-flagellants w/ 50 Attacks on the charge against an AV 10 Vehicle gives us:
Glances Pens
Auto-hit: 8.3 None
4+: 4.2
6+: 1.3
Was looking pretty solidly through the codex, and was surprised at the number of ways to be taking out Armor thats been pretty heavy with all armies now a days.
Let's look at some of their Codex specific options that can target all armor ranges.
Shooting:
1) (AV 10-14) Jokaero w/ their Lascannon/Multimelta universal weapon
2) (AV 10-14) Orbital Strike Relay - Lance Strike
3) (AV 10-14) Librarian - Warp Rift
4) (AV 10-14) 5 or more Psykers - Psychic Barrage
5) (AV 10-14) Vindicare Assassin - Turbo Penetrator
6) (AV 10-14) Daemonhost - Unholy Gaze
Close combat:
1) (AV 10-14) Any Grey Knight using Might of Titan [+1S plus extra D6 AP]
2) (AV 10-14) Brother Captain Stern - Zone of Banishment [Only works against Walkers, or other units with a Strength value]
3) (AV 10-14) Banisher using Might of Titan [a whopping S8 plus 3D6 AP]
A great use of Shooting is to take a Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor with a Psyocculum and a Conversion Beamer. Shooting at any Psyker or unit containing a Psyker, take the Scatter from your Conversion Beamer and subtract the BS 10, and you basically have an auto-hitting S 10 AP 1 killer. Want more bang for your buck? Try adding some Techmarines, say 3 with Orbital Strike Relays. Now your hitting any Psyker unit with 4 S 10 AP 1 shots, enough to wipe out any unit. Want more leeway, then use the Psyk-out Bomb, and you have 3 automatic Perils of the Warp attacks in addition to everything else. Mass troops with that Psyker? Then use the D3 Large Blast Barrage Bomb for potentially 9 Large Blast Blasts hitting that squad. This is great for placing the first blast on the end of a mixed-Psyker squad and potentially taking out an additional unit nearby with the multiple-blast effect. If you want to go 'overkill', you could always take a Henchmen Warband loaded with Space Monkeys with BS 10 Lascannons.
The question I have, is if a Psyker is in a transport, can he be targeted by the Psyocculum? If so, so much for that Land Raider giving you protection.
All numbers assuming the +1 Attack for charging. As for close combat, the best tank-killer (against AV 10) I can see is taking a Libby w/ Daemon Hammer (Hammerhand/Might of Titan), and Coteaz (Hammerhand) w/ 12 Arco-Flagellants and now you have 60 S7 2D6 AP attacks as well as Coteaz's 3 S5 2D6 AP master-crafted Daemon Hammer attacks and the Libby's Daemon Hammer attacks as well. If Auto-hitting, your looking at 58 Glances or 56 Pens. Pretty solid. Hitting on 6's, you're still looking at 9 Pens.
Against AV 14, then you want the Librarian and Coteaz from above, but take Banishers w/ Eviscerators. This can get pricey at 30 pts/model, but even a squad of 6 can do 12 S10 3D6 AP hits. Is the AP over-kill, yes, but if you want to make sure that Land Raider or Monolith isn't moving, or even against an AV 14 Building, there's no better way, short of using a Dread Knight.
What other ideas has anyone else come up with?
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Stats below are only for Banishers in C.C. against Vehicles, Arco-flagellants and Death Cult Assassins against vehicles and Troops
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Basic Banishers w/ their S6 + 2 D6 AP AV 10 91% Penetrating 83%
12 72% Penetrating 58%
14 42% Penetrating 28%
Banishers w/ Might of Titan + Hammerhand S8 + 3D6 AP AV 10 Auto- Penetrating
12 98% Penetrating 94%
14 96% Penetrating 74%
5 Banishers w/ 2 Attacks on the charge gives us:
S6+2D6 (Eviscerator) S8+3D6 (Eviscerator + Might of Titan)
Hits Glances Pens Hits Glances Pens
AV 14 Auto-hit: 10 1 1 AV 14 Auto-hit: 10 1 6
4+: 7 0 0 4+: 5 0 3
6+: 1 0 0 6+: 2 0 0.5
As you can see, your ideal AV 14 target is one that is already Immobilized. 5 Banishers w/ Eviscerators is costing us about 150 points (30 per model), so if you want to increase the odds of destroying that Land Raider, make sure you focus on your point total. These guys can still be used as S8 power fist attacks, but as you'll see, we have much better Henchmen for that.
10 Arco-flagellants w/ 50 Attacks on the charge against an AV 10 Vehicle gives us:
Glances Pens w/ Hammerhand (S5) Glances Pens
Auto-hit: 8.3 None Auto-hit: 16.6 8.3
4+: 4.15 4+: 8.3 4.15
6+: 1.3 6+: 2.6 1.3
10 Death Cult Assassins w/ 40 Attacks on the charge against an AV 10 Vehicle gives us:
Glances Pens w/ Hammerhand (S5) Glances Pens
Auto-hit: 6.6 None Auto-hit: 13.3 6.6
4+: 3.3 4+: 6.6 3.3
6+: 1.1 6+: 1.0 0.5
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Against models with basic Armor Saves:
10 Arco-flagellants give you an average of 50 Attacks, 33 Hits and 22 Wounds.
Failed 2+ Saves = 3.6
Failed 3+ Saves = 7.3
Failed 4+ Saves = 11
Failed 5+ Saves = 14.6
Failed 6+ Saves = 18.3
10 Death Cult Assassins w/ power weapons give you an average of 40 Attacks, 27 Hits and 14 Wounds.
Seeing the numbers above, at best against a 6+ Armor Save, you'll potentially get 18 failed saves with the Arcos, whereas with the DCA's and their power weapons you're getting 14 no-save wounds making them (Death Cult Assassins) your best multi-attack unit.
Now against an Invulnerable Save, taking those 14 Wounds and comparing them w/ Failed Invulnerable Saves we get:
Failed invulnerable 2+ Saves = 2.3
Failed invulnerable 3+ Saves = 4.6
Failed invulnerable 4+ Saves = 7
Failed invulnerable 5+ Saves = 9.3
Failed invulnerable 6+ Saves = 11.6
Now against models with ONLY an invulnerable save, you'll want the more Wounds you get with the Arco-flagellants.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Numbers provided are what I came up with. If their wrong :confused:, so be it. I put them there for anyone who isn't as bored as I was, and needed a visual with what I came up with.