Black Templar 2500 Tournament List

[IvI Gatman IvI]

Hola fellow nerds,

Ive recently been brainstorming a few possible lists for an upcoming 2500 point tournament for my templar army. Im just looking for some feedback and maybe even a little constructive criticism. Any ideas would be appreciated.

HQ
140 Champ with AAC
170 Marshal with lightning claws, artificer armour, terminator honors, and iron halo
175 Master of Sanctity with lightning claws, artificer armour, and terminator honors

Elites
125 Dreadnought with twinlinked lascannon
125 Dreadnought with twinlinked lascannon

Troops
227 9 initiates with power fist and melta gun in a rhino with extra armour and smoke
227 Dido
227 Dido
243 Dido except has a full ten man squad
96 5 Initiates with a rocket launcher and plasma gun
96 Dido

Fast Attack
70 Landspeeder Typhoon
70 Dido
70 Did0

Heavy Support
145 Predator Annihilator with lascannon sponsons
145 Dido
145 Dido
_________

2496 total

[Splug]

I personally prefer the LC/SS marshal over the LC/LC/Halo marshal. You only lose one attack, but improve the invul save to 3+ and the guy is 15 points cheaper.

Dreadnoughts en masse can create a real problem for certain army builds, but most armies can disable two of them before they become dangerous. They're also potentially single-shot kill points. Since you're already saturating the field with boots, consider using some footslogging shooty terminators with tank hunter / cyclone launchers. If they get stuck in combat, they still have power fists/preferred enemy. If they don't, they belt out 4x S9 AV shots per turn at 48" for 265 points (15 over the two dreads combined, which only had 2 TL S9 shots). S5 storm bolters can be useful against rhinos/DE raiders as well. This is personal preference; if you'd rather use the dreads, stick with them. Either unit fulfills the same role, one option just splits fire while the other has better counter-assault potential.

Your squads/IC's currently do not have frag grenades, with the exception of the EC who comes with them. Assaulting into cover occurs frequently, and dropping to I1 hurts against most targets. You should probably find the one point per model to get these on the four rhino squads. One option is to include a pair of neophytes in each squad. I find these guys are extremely useful as wound allocation gimmicks too; they're great for cutting down the number of rending or power weapon hits by stacking them on neo's, or soaking the missle/plasma fire that would just be cover saves anyway.

Consider upgrading the ML on the shooty crusader squads to a Lascannon. It's only 5 extra points, is better against vehicles/terminators, and ignores FNP regardless of toughness, providing good synergy with the plasma guns. Don't forget you can arm these guys with boltguns instead of pistols for free.

Typhoon speeders are great for BT's. If you have spare points somewhere adding a MM can get you another option for popping LR's that get too close, but that's very low priority.

Predators work. Long range anti-tank / MC shooting is always nice.

Incorporating those modifications, here's what you'd see: (total 2497)

HQ
140 Champ with AAC
156 Marshal with lightning claw, storm shield, artificer armour, terminator honors, frag grenades
176 Master of Sanctity with lightning claws, artificer armour, and terminator honors, frag grenades

Elites
265 Sword Brethren Terminator Squad with 2x Cyclone Missile Launcher, Tank Hunters, 5x Storm Bolter/Power Fist

Troops
224 7 initiates + 2 neophytes with power fist, melta gun, frag grenades in a rhino with extra armour and smoke
224 7 initiates + 2 neophytes with power fist, melta gun, frag grenades in a rhino with extra armour and smoke
224 7 initiates + 2 neophytes with power fist, melta gun, frag grenades in a rhino with extra armour and smoke
241 8 initiates + 2 neophytes with power fist, melta gun, frag grenades in a rhino with extra armor and smoke
101 5 Initiates with lascannon, plasma gun, 3 boltguns
101 5 Initiates with lascannon, plasma gun, 3 boltguns

Fast Attack
70 Landspeeder Typhoon
70 Landspeeder Typhoon
70 Landspeeder Typhoon

Heavy Support
145 Predator Annihilator with lascannon sponsons
145 Predator Annihilator with lascannon sponsons
145 Predator Annihilator with lascannon sponsons

[Paul]

Needs more techmarines...

[IvI Gatman IvI]

Splug: I really like your idea of terminators with missle launchers for some reason it didnt even cross my mind that they would be getting 4x S9 attacks. Ill definitly make room for those. However im not so sure about only having one lightning claw because Ive gotten spoiled with rerolling everything I possibly can and im just not sure if i could get used to only rerolling my hits and only one to wound roll. I know thats pretty spoiled. Thanks for the advice though, its definitly the kind of criticism that i enjoy

Paul: Why techmarines?

[Splug]

Splug: I really like your idea of terminators with missle launchers for some reason it didnt even cross my mind that they would be getting 4x S9 attacks. Ill definitly make room for those. However im not so sure about only having one lightning claw because Ive gotten spoiled with rerolling everything I possibly can and im just not sure if i could get used to only rerolling my hits and only one to wound roll. I know thats pretty spoiled. Thanks for the advice though, its definitly the kind of criticism that i enjoy

Paul: Why techmarines?A single lightning claw still allows you to reroll all to-wound rolls (just double checked the rulebook to make sure I haven't been playing it wrong). Having a second lightning claw just gives you one additional attack (the caveat is that a basic close combat weapon or pistol cannot be used to get this additional attack).

Paul has an interesting Iron Hands successor chapter (counts as Black Templar) centered around a single deathstar with 5 attached IC's. It's surprisingly effective and forced me to learn the importance of ensuring individual models die rather than spreading wounds between several targets and hoping they each fail enough saves. While I assume he made the comment as an inside joke, it may actually be worth considering using a techmarine as an IC for the fourth rhino squad; with a servo harness, frag grenades, and TH/SS upgrades, you have a 2W 2+/3++ IC with 4 re-rolling to hit thunder hammer / servo arm attacks (5 charging) for 146 points (and for s&g's, he may randomly repair his rhino or something). Getting that from an elite slot instead of an HQ is kind of a nice trick.

[IvI Gatman IvI]

Interesting. Yall are bringing up some good points. And for some odd reason I was under the impression that you only could reroll all you wounds if you had both claws(probably some old 4th edition rules floating around in my head), so im glad you brought this to my attention. How about this:

140 Champ
155 Marshal Lightning claw, storm shield, terminator honors, artificer armour

227 Crusader squad Fist, melta, Rhino
227 dido
227 dido
211 Crusader squad 8 men, fist, melta, rhino
96 Crusader squad 5 men, plasma, rocket launcher
96 dido

265 Terminator squad, tank hunters, cyclone missle launchers
265 dido
155 Techmarine, Lightning claw, stormshield, servo harness, terminator honors

145 Predator
145 ^
145 ^

Total: 2499

[Tynskel]

You forgot to add the L between DI and DO... Or was that D...

I think it would be worth while to take some deep strikers. Especially since the Black Templars can take drop pods for teminators. Upgrading the marshal to terminator armor and taking a body guard could be useful to add some tough unit.

A drop pod terminator squad with furious charge and two Hv flamers is sweet. Give the sgt a storm shield. Give the commander storm shield and thunder hammer. If there are still some points give the sgt a lightning claw.

[Splug]

I'm not sure dropping the MoS is worth it to get the techmarine; my point was just that you could potentially have both if you wanted a fourth IC to go with the last squad of dudes. The MoS's extra wound and I5 are pretty key if you're going for a claw-wielding IC anyway. If you go with the techmarine, I'd say just let him rock out at I1 and go nuts with a fist or hammer. (Though I did forget about terminator honors on him - good catch).

Tank hunting terminators are more efficient firepower than the dreads were, but I'm not sure if it's worth dropping those 70 point speeders to get a second squad of them. 6x S8 vs 4x S9, and the speeders are capable of turn 5-7 objective ninja contesting, immune to Kill Them All, and 50 points cheaper (for all 3 vs one squad). You have no shortage of low-mobility S9 shooting already courtesy of the predators.

I don't see much point to Furious Charge on a deep strike squad - they will either be shot to death, assaulted, or too far away to make an assault on the following turn. (By contrast, assault terminators in an LRC are excellent with Furious Charge - but that really doesn't fit the list). I'm not sure why you'd use a drop pod for guys in terminator armor either. BT drop pods do not come down on turn 1 (even after the FAQ), and they can already deep strike if they're in terminator armor. It's a bit safer for scatter, but giving the Techmarine a teleport homer would serve a similar purpose for less.

[Tynskel]

They still shoot two hv flamers.

I would always take a drop pod for terminators if I could: you can 1) not get mishapped (other than scattering off the board) 2) spread out AND shoot, 3) spread out and run, 4) position flamers exactly where you want them to maximize their firepower. I have found it is completely worth while to pay 50 points to make sure your terminators land EXACTLY where you want them to.

I don't care if the enemy charges my terminators--- I have powerfists! Bring it!

I don't care if they shoot my terminators--- they are not shooting something else, they are shooting my 2+/5+ guys that are meant to get shot. In this case, the marshal and sgt have storm shields.

Furious charge has more applications than tank hunters--- you always get Str 9 powerfists on the charge. Sometimes the initiative is worth it. The commander could always switch to a lightning claw. He does have 5 attacks on the charge. If you are going Assault Cannons, maybe tank hunters (str 7 rending is nice), and I would take it with 4 str 9 missiles. But, if you are going gribbly hunting with two hvy flamers, why not the str and initiative boost?

[hammer]

Believe it or not i run a templar army that has two units on foot. They are both 14 man squads with 4 neophytes melta guns and power weapons. The thing that really hurts is that i add in a Reclusiarch with a plasma pistol holy orb and 3 cenobyte servitors to each of theses squads. Now all you have to do is run tank screens and get the unit 50% obsecured to gain your cover saves and you can go to ground to improve your save and when you loose atleast one or models your unit stands back up to run at your enemy befor they have an assult phase. Simply take your wounds on the nehpytes, auto pass your check because the chaplin makes you fearless, then run between 4 and 9 inches anywhere you want to and then smile because if you moved run and then got shot at on an average dice roll you are now 13inches closer to enemy units and its not even turn 2 yet. Not to mention the 3rd squad in the rhino for fire support or the ec in the lrc with 6 lightning claw termanators and the 2 dreads with lass cannons and power fists. The list i run is about 2000 but if i were going to add anything it would be troops in drop pods with bolters and a plasma gun. The templars live and die on how many boots they can get on the ground and how fast they can do it. I stay away from speeders unless it is a low points cost game.

[wolflold]

Good tactic for BT is to field 10 initiates + 7 (or more) neophyts + chaplain with 3 servitors. Its a big unit of marines so wont die fast, it will scare the **** out of your oppontent, in your own turn you move 6+d6, in your opponents turn you move d6+3 with re-roll (that is if you take a hit), so you kind of move "fast". It works best if you field 2 of these units, most players field a mech army so have a lot of anti-tank but what is he going to do against a marine horde :P. Throw in a few rhino+initiate squads, terminators with 2 assault cannons and tank hunters (who will deep strike ofcourse) and support of choice venerable dreadnought with tank hunter/predator with lots of lascannons. and you got a pretty descent army!

HQ
Master of Sanity - 3x servitor - 140
Master of Sanity - 3x servitor - 140
champion - accept any challenge, no matter the ods - 140

Elites
Ven. Dreadnought - twin-lascannon, tank hunter - 155
Terminators - 2x assault cannon, tank hunters - 255
Terminators - 2x assault cannon, tank hunters - 255

Troops
Initiate 10x, 7x neophyte - powerfist, meltagun - 255
Initiate 10x, 7x neophyte - powerfist, meltagun - 255
Initiate 9x - powerfist, meltagun - 169
Rhino - extra armour, smoke - 58
Initiate 10x - powerfist, meltagun - 185
Rhino - extra armour, smoke - 58

Heavy support
Predator - twin-lascannon, side lascannon - 145
Predator - twin-lascannon, side lascannon - 145
Predator - twin-lascannon, side lascannon - 145

Total 2500

[hammer]

Thats not a bad list, but i tend to do 2 things different. I like a more assult centered list, and i normally play 1750 to 1850 tournaments. So i have a crusaider as a heavy, and 5 lightning claw termanators with furious charge and 2 thunder hammer storm shield with the champion with them. I also run 2 dreads with lasscannons to give some fire support. i keep away from the power fists though because if you only get 2 attacks on the charge. That i normally have 3 crusaider squads simply because of points limits. At one point i did run a command squad with 2 missle launchers and it had infiltrate. That was pretty fun.