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crunchyjuice
09-01-2009, 09:06 PM
generally i thought a couple melta guns would cut it. but apparently they dont. how many anti tank weapons should you have in a 1500 pt army? more specifically, weapons like meltaguns, multimeltas, lascannons, bright/dark lances, railguns, fusion blasters, missile pods, autocannons.... the such. also, as a bonus question, what combinations are good for what?

Chadmack
09-02-2009, 12:51 AM
I try for 2 for every 500 points. As a Marine player ate 1500 points I would be taking 2 Dreds (Twin linked lascannon, Missile) just for tank hunting and a couple of multi meltas in tactical squads.

the other way Do the math. Change to hit*Chance to pen armor 13*chance of destroyed result with
Twin Linked Las cannon from the dred - Hits 2/3+((1/3)*2/3)*pen(1/3)*Destroy (1/3) = 8/81
or 10 shots for a statistical destruction. Wolframalfa.com is great for these calculations.

Bravo-52
09-02-2009, 01:13 AM
I usually take 6 lascannons to my 1500 pt games. But I play IG. :rolleyes:

Arc
09-02-2009, 01:17 AM
In todays mech heavy environment I try to field at least one AT weapon per kill point. Should be enough to stop the initial rush.

slxiii
09-02-2009, 02:59 AM
depends who you're fighting. against orks, take no anti tank guns.
In a 1750 tournament at my game store, i fielded 4 Broadsides, a hammerhead, one Crisis suit team with meltas and missile pods, and a unit of 3 piranhas with meltas.
The result was that mechanized SM/Guard found all of their vehicles popped by the 2nd turn, and were pretty much mopped up by the 4th.
Black templars just got angry and ran 60 inches to charge all of my troops.
Orks annihilated me. As much as anti tank is nice, he had enough stormboyz and plain ole boyz to absorb the hits and be completely unphased.

WereWolf_nr
09-02-2009, 10:54 AM
Doing the math never hurts. I would also, whenever you are above 500, try to take a weapon with an unmodified strength of 9+. This helps against Necron players. I would also advise keeping an eye on what you are likely to face by knowing the armies of the players in your area. If nobody plays Dark Eldar etc.

RocketRollRebel
09-02-2009, 12:30 PM
Las cannons are still OK for taking down heavy armor but meltas are king now. Just when useing meltas make sure that they have a delivery system (transport,jump pack, deep strike, out flank ect ect) I would say in todays mech heavy environment to bring a healthy amount of AT and even different types of AT to fulfill different rolls. Auto cannons and assault cannons or multiple missile shots from one unit are great for takeing down transports where melta wepons are are your best bet for takeing out heavy armor. Also close combat can effectivly take down slower heavy tanks (again needs a delivery system).

So yes always come prepared to deal with a good amount of armor but don't forget about being ready with some crowd control weapons. Hordes still exist and will get a nice chuckle at your AT wepons.

brother drakist
09-02-2009, 12:54 PM
When in doubt try to get a dual roll weapon. By this I mean you always want to be prepared for whatever the universe throws at you. Personally I like to leave the big tanks to my Melta guns. Whereas I like to pummel transports or hordes with Missile launchers. As far as how many I would take in a 1500 point army? I like to bring one per squad if I wasn't using a devastator or heavy weapon squad.

phoenyxx
09-02-2009, 02:28 PM
As other people here have said, it depends quite a bit on what you are fighting. Many of the guidelines here are good ones. For me personally, every single unit in my 1500 point army has a weapon capable of taking out a vehicle.

My land raider has its Las Cannons. The Battle Cannons on my Defilers or their close combat attacks. Power Fists and/or Meltas on my troops.

Superbran
09-02-2009, 03:43 PM
I try to take weapons that are specifically geared for heavy armor. With so many land raiders and leman russ tanks on the field I tend to shy away from anything that doesn't have either the melta or brightlance rules. Even then, I don't think that brightlances can be counted on all that much.

Superbran

Evil-Termite
09-02-2009, 05:43 PM
My 1500 marine list has 3 twin linked multimeltas, 3 missile launchers, and mastercrafted thunderhammer terminators. So... Lots.

My 1500 point Tau list has 3 railguns, 8 missile pod shots, and often a fusion blaster. So a decent amount.

My 1500 point Eldar list has 4 twin linked missile launchers, 3 missile launchers, 6 melta guns (Fire dragons are awesome) and 3 wraithlords (They punch at strength 10)

I've found that it's important to have at least every other unit having something that can hurt tanks because if you don't have that then they can just kill your dedicated AT support and then you are hosed.

Chumbalaya
09-02-2009, 09:41 PM
It depends on what you're using in your army and what sorts of AT you have available.

I think it best to have multiple units capable of nuking armor as well as handling hordes and providing other roles. IG Vets with meltas in Chimeras is a good example. Cheap, scoring, 3 BS4 meltas, a heavy flamer, and a nifty tank to run in.

And it's not always just meltas, even though they're the best AT weapons around they have a short range and are overkill on lighter armor. Multi-shot medium S weapons can knock out transports and light armor, while high S ordnance, massed lascannons, lances, and railguns can help keep vehicles at bay at range.

Desaster
09-02-2009, 09:55 PM
Hm, I'm running 9 melta guns and 7 Lascans at 1750 points (it's Guard, of course ;) ).
It depends on what you're playing. With BS3, you need more AT-firepower than with BS4 or higher.

For elite armies like SM or Eldar, I think 1-2 for every 500 points are enough. They don't need to stop enemy transports as bad as other armies.

For horde armies like IG/Orks/Nids, take as much as you can justify. My guard need to stop a Chaos LR full of berzerkers right away - therefore at least 2/3 of my army is dedicated to tank-popping.

GMort.
09-04-2009, 07:03 AM
Every unit in my SM army has at least some way of dealing with armour.

At 1500 points that amounts to a Conversion Beamer and 9 Multi-Melta's.
There's also 7 Heavy Flamers and 2 normal Flamers, so i'm not short of anti-horde either ;)

Alvena
09-04-2009, 08:37 AM
My 1500 marine list has 3 twin linked multimeltas, 3 missile launchers, and mastercrafted thunderhammer terminators. So... Lots.
[...]


Where do we found TLMM in the Codex: SM ????
I might be wrong but don't see :
Dreads, Ironclad, Assault bike, LS Tornado, LRC top hatch, Tac/Dev squad heavy weapon, Techmarine servant, even forgeworld razorback don't have Twin Linked Multi Meta.
We do have lots of MM, but i don't see how they could be TL (Unless using vulkan of course) ??

GMort.
09-04-2009, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil-Termite
My 1500 marine list has 3 twin linked multimeltas, 3 missile launchers, and mastercrafted thunderhammer terminators. So... Lots.
[...]

Where do we found TLMM in the Codex: SM ????
I might be wrong but don't see :
Dreads, Ironclad, Assault bike, LS Tornado, LRC top hatch, Tac/Dev squad heavy weapon, Techmarine servant, even forgeworld razorback don't have Twin Linked Multi Meta.
We do have lots of MM, but i don't see how they could be TL (Unless using vulkan of course) ??

As he mentions master crafted TH/SS Terminators i presume he means they're twin-linked due to Vulkan.

Alvena
09-04-2009, 09:07 AM
As he mentions master crafted TH/SS Terminators i presume he means they're twin-linked due to Vulkan.

Yep i missed that !
Thx

Fowlplaychiken
09-04-2009, 09:39 AM
I find that balance in any list is key. My lists, i try to have a good mix of AT/monstrous creature, anti infantry, and anti horde. In my case, my 2kpt marine list has:

AT/monstrous:
Ironclad with meltagun, hf, and drop pod
3 twin linked MM and 3 p-fist (one in each tac squad)
1 pred with twin linked lascannons
1 twin linked MM on my redeemer
1 twin linked MM on my normal dread
vulkan + assault termi's

anti infantry:
Redeemer
3x tactical squads
vulkan + assault termi's (also have a twin linked h-flamer of course)
3x twin linked flamer (in tac squads)
normal dread (and sometimes the ironclad) which both have twin linked heavy flamer

Anti-horde:
2x vindicator (also serves as anti tank in a pinch vs extremely mech heavy opponents).

As my list reduces in points, I scale back At to match. For example, in 1850 theres no normal dread and two less power fist (replaces with power weapon). in 1500 theres also no pred, and so on. When you get down to my 1kpt list the only AT is the redeemer MM (no longer twin linked), two tactical squad MM, and two vindi (which are flex at and anti horde).

Aldramelech
09-04-2009, 10:36 AM
I dont understand why Guard players are so down on Missile Lauchers? I like them.
Good AT and the ability to frag troops as well, whats the problem?

Xas
09-04-2009, 11:33 AM
I dont understand why Guard players are so down on Missile Lauchers? I like them.
Good AT and the ability to frag troops as well, whats the problem?

because unlike marines guard only pays +5pts to upgrade missile launchers to lascannons :)

Fowlplaychiken
09-04-2009, 11:45 AM
I think tac squads get lascannon for +5 too, although codex isnt in front of me. Devastators with lascannon are pricey however

Aldramelech
09-04-2009, 01:04 PM
Cant frag a large group of Orks with a Lascannon, I'll stick to me launchers.

Chumbalaya
09-04-2009, 11:29 PM
It's mostly because autocannons are cheaper and better. If you want to smush hordes, bring a battle tank.

Ming
09-05-2009, 08:39 PM
I have my Ultras take a AT ranged weapon and AT HTH weapon in every squad. So, at about 1500 points I will have +/- 6 lascannon barrels or their equivalent (twin linked = 2), +/- 6 PGs or MG equivalents, and 6 power fists or MBs. :eek:

Mike X
09-05-2009, 09:02 PM
I probably field way too many lascannons than I should in a 2000pts list.

I currently have:
-Dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon and missile launcher
-Dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon and stormbolter/CCW
-Predator with twin-linked lascannon turret and lascannon sponsons

Plus I also give my assault marines a plasma pistol, I have a tactical squad with a plasmagun and plasmacannon, and a devastator squad with all missile launchers.

I'm thinking about saving myself some major points and replacing the lascannon sponsons with heavy bolters on my Predator though.

Ming
09-05-2009, 09:16 PM
True, but some times you need the high S low AP. Heck, a MM on a dread by itself seems like a great idea, but it relies on alot of luck to get a wreck or explode. A pred w/ 1 TLLC and 2 sponson LCs is a pretty reliable tank buster. I actually may drop a speeder though and add Chronus to a list to get that pred BS5...9 shots hitting on 2s instead of 3s for a dakka pred...:rolleyes:

Mike X
09-05-2009, 09:21 PM
True, but some times you need the high S low AP. Heck, a MM on a dread by itself seems like a great idea, but it relies on alot of luck to get a wreck or explode.

Yeah, I don't field any meltaguns or multimeltas, I'd much rather have lascannons instead.

doskar
09-05-2009, 09:55 PM
I think its not just a matter of having AT weapons, a reliable delivery system is just as important. Two extremes might be a Tac squad with a Multimelta running to the midfield to set up its AT bubble. If unmolested, this unit will set itself up as a threat. It will also waste a turn or two getting in position. The same weapon on a Attack Bike or Land Speeder may be able to move and get off that first turn shot. Sure, they will get gunned down on the opponents turn, but after they are mission complete. All that being said, I think with the mech trend the 5th ed has spawned you really need an AT weapon per 250 pts minimum.