Which Chapter is Worthy?

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

What chapter of Space Marines do you think should get their own Codex with a full set of new rules?(ie Dark Angels or Black Templars)
White Scars?
Blood Ravens?
What about Chaos? Nightlords or Iron Warriors?
I know this is just wishful thinking but it was my thought of the day, and since Space Marines are GW's bread and butter why not?
How about some Xenos spin offs?
I personally would like to see more chapters having special rules. Lets get some flavor in this Vanilla.
I would like to see white scars with some cool rules like fleeting bikes and some cool upgrade sargeants for the bikesquads.
What's your favorite Chapter or theme and what do you think they should get?

[wittdooley]

The answer here is clearly the Chaos Marines, most notably Thousand Sons, World Eaters, Death Guard, and Emperors Children. Either that, or they deserve a big fat 200 page codex that allows you to run each army.

And not that I want to burst your Vanilla bubble, but there's characters in the Vanilla Dex that allow you to play pretty good versions of the White Scars, Salamanders, and Raven Guard.

[DarkLink]

Frankly, the SM codices should look like this: Codex: SMs, Codex: CSM, Codex: Grey Knights.

The Grey Knights are the only loyalist chapter that is truly different enough to warrant its own codex. With a little tweaking, BT, SW, BA, DA can all be fit into the vanilla Marine dex. Quite easily, in fact, though you'd end up with a pretty hefty book. There'd be a list of common units, then you would select a Chapter Tactics for your chosen chapter. This would also unlock various unique units and options for each chapter.

New SM codices make GW money, though, so neglecting development costs the appropriate answer to the OP's question is "all of them".

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

O I know I was just thinking of something more substantial with a full codex. I also agree that about chaos especially Ksons. I am reading the Horus Heresy novel right now and the 1000 sons are bad@$$ they derserve some special attention.

[Demonus]

yep Id like to see the SM codex be one big one, with a chapter for each chapter (hehe) but i understand GW needs to make money :)

I hope they devote a codex to each chaos god, and then 1 for undivided with chapters for chapters in it.

[JxKxR]

I've been praying to Tzeentch for a Thousand Sons codex for a long time.

[Grimfoe]

Frankly, the SM codices should look like this: Codex: SMs, Codex: CSM, Codex: Grey Knights.

The Grey Knights are the only loyalist chapter that is truly different enough to warrant its own codex. With a little tweaking, BT, SW, BA, DA can all be fit into the vanilla Marine dex. Quite easily, in fact, though you'd end up with a pretty hefty book. There'd be a list of common units, then you would select a Chapter Tactics for your chosen chapter. This would also unlock various unique units and options for each chapter.

New SM codices make GW money, though, so neglecting development costs the appropriate answer to the OP's question is "all of them".

I disagree. Running Space Marines is considerably different than running any of the chapters you named. The SW, BT, BA and DA marines all vary widely from the codex. That is the entire reason for having these armies in the game. I happen to play SW, and I can tell you that I never would have started the game if vanilla marines were my only choice in the early nineties. I simply didn't like them.

Just the same, I think the vanilla marines do need a little flavor as they are pretty good at everything, but not really good enough at anything. The special characters give them that flavor. I would have left a little more of the "build your own" special character in the codex, but I think they work pretty well as is.

[wkz]

Frankly, the SM codices should look like this: Codex: SMs, Codex: CSM, Codex: Grey Knights.

The Grey Knights are the only loyalist chapter that is truly different enough to warrant its own codex. With a little tweaking, BT, SW, BA, DA can all be fit into the vanilla Marine dex. Quite easily, in fact, though you'd end up with a pretty hefty book. There'd be a list of common units, then you would select a Chapter Tactics for your chosen chapter. This would also unlock various unique units and options for each chapter.

New SM codices make GW money, though, so neglecting development costs the appropriate answer to the OP's question is "all of them".

I disagree: although Space Marine tactics have as its base widely similar moves, units and organization, there are some chapters out there who are arranged differently and, by fluff, act differently.

Codex: SM does this quite well in fact: by having the chapter tactics system, it portrays the Fists as stubborn, the Salamanders as burn-happy, etc... but not well enough.

There are certain other chapters out there who are deviant enough to need their own books. DA for their Wings (Raven/Death), Space Wolves for their emphasis on personal glory, Black Templars for their "more horde than most" tactics, Blood Angels for their jumppack heavy fast moving strike force... etc...

Similarly, the Forces of Chaos should have similar representation: the cannon-happy Iron warriors, the jump-pack and infiltrate crazy Night Lords, "Haste and Havok" Emperor's children, etc...


In fact, if I have control, IMO the codices for SM and CSM should look like this:

C:SM (UltraMarines and their ten BILLION successor chapters)
C:SM addum: forces of the Blood Angels (counts as Ravenguard)
C:SM addum: forces of the Imperial Fists
C:SM addum: forces of the Black Templars
C:SM addum: forces of the Space Wolves
C:SM addum: forces of the Dark Angels
etc...

C:CSM (Renegade chapters, Chaos undivided, Black Legion)
C:CSM addum: Legion of Iron (Iron warriors)
C:CSM addum: Legion of Heretics (Lost and the Damned, Word Bearers)
C:CSM addum: Legion of Sorcerers (Thousand Sons)
C:CSM addum: Legion of Excesses (Emperor's children)
etc...

(with each addum being pamphlet sized)

Then again, GW has clearly moved away from the PDF/Pamphlet style codexes... so this is only going to be an unrealized dream for me...


Edit: PS: From GW's non-Pamphlet point of view, its actually a crying shame C:SM isn't thought out more throughly...

Between "Character A unlocks stuff as Troops" and "Chapter tactics affects the whole army", a LOT of non-listed chapters can be represented by fielding a particular characters. Even Dark Angels (whose major selling point is stubborn/fearless + Death/Raven wings, which is "lots of terminators" and "lots of bikes and speeders" respectively) can be represented inside C:SM via these two methods.

[Dalleron]

i see no reason why they can't do the codex's like they did in the past. You want to run a non blue and white marine army, buy this supplement. It references everything in the SM codex, and gives you your special whatever you need. It would also stop certain loyalist codex's gettin left out in the cold for months on end.

[fuzzbuket]

whilst releasing 21 SM dexes think ( 18 Origion legios, GK, Bt, renegades)
1) woah 3x as many SM dexes !
2) haters gona hate A LOT
4) why dont all the craftworlds have theire own dex?
5) upcoming 20+ eldar dexes, 15 nid dexes and 5 SOB dexes
6) goat boy: YAY!

just sayin the dexes are fine Imo and 20 pages at the back of the SM dexc could fix a lot !

[eldargal]

I half-agree with Darklink:

Codex: Space Marines giving all the generic rules, Ultramarines focus as standard
Codex: First Founding Chapters (pick a better name), with the rules for Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels etcetera.
Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

Space Marines don't lose any variety, release schedule is freed up, GW can still go on producing all the goodies for SM to meet demand, but we get more punctual updates for non-SM.

[energongoodie]

Iron Hands. Hands down.
They are the only first founding chapter without a codex or a special character in the space marine codex. This needs to be rectified.
Plus, think how cool the models would be.

[Zweischneid]

The answer here is clearly the Chaos Marines, most notably Thousand Sons, World Eaters, Death Guard, and Emperors Children. Either that, or they deserve a big fat 200 page codex that allows you to run each army.

And not that I want to burst your Vanilla bubble, but there's characters in the Vanilla Dex that allow you to play pretty good versions of the White Scars, Salamanders, and Raven Guard.

Um.. no? World Eaters ceased to exist following the battle of Skalatherax. The most notable thing about Thousand Sons is the one guy they exiled and put out on the street. Death Guard is serving primarily Huron and a few other Renegades. In short.. those are largely 30K factions, not 40k factions.

[Grailkeeper]

I thought one way of doing CSM would be two codexs
one for the 4 main cults and Word bearers- The Damned
and the other for the more 'agnostic' Chaos marines- renegades, black legion, alpha legion, nightlords and IRon warriors- The lost

[Col.Gravis]

Um.. no? World Eaters ceased to exist following the battle of Skalatherax.

Wrong they broke down into warbands, there is no central Legion but the World Eaters go on.


The most notable thing about Thousand Sons is the one guy they exiled and put out on the street.

Apart from the fat the Rubric Marines of course - which is basically the entire surviving Legion.


Death Guard is serving primarily Huron and a few other Renegades.

I'm not even sure where that idea comes from.

The Legions do not act as Legions any more true, but they do act as Warbands of varying sizes while retaining their own identity.

Grailkeeper, completely agree with that idea. Wish there were less SM codex though, unfortunately they sell well, lets face it thats the only reason there are so many.

[Wolfshade]

I'm not sure if I would go as far to say as which Chapter is worthy but I do like the idea of a codex per first founding chapters both loyal and renegade.

But I am surprised that there hasn't been a Codex: Blood Ravens to tie in with the DoW games

[david5th]

Blood Ravens, Soul Drinkers and Codexes for each "legion" - Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Word Bearers etc.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Do we really need another chapter-specific codex once Black Templars and Dark Angels are done? I'm not even sure I like the idea of chaos-chapter specific codices (but that's just me and my sense of mild embarrassment every time I see chaos marines - I know people seem to love them and their big "scary" helmets and endless silly spikes, but I can't stand 'em. They're just too... goofy).

I'd prefer to see something new; AdMech with robots or something. Enslavers (Cthulhu and his mindless zombie horde) perhaps. There's a world of untapped fluff that could easily lead to a new and interesting army. Do we really have to keep doing Marines? Especially codex Marines who could easily just have a chapter master upgrade and be done with it?

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

what about some of the other unknown chapters like the WHITE templers or the Iron lords or Stormwings where all we know about them is that they have a cool color scheme. the thread has gone a little off my point. we all know that CSM derserve a new dex and that having a codex for each chapter is ridiculous. what kind of rules or ideas would you like to see 1K Sons or Blood Ravens have. Its all hypothetical anyway.

[DarkLink]

I disagree. Running Space Marines is considerably different than running any of the chapters you named.


I disagree: although Space Marine tactics have as its base widely similar moves, units and organization, there are some chapters out there who are arranged differently and, by fluff, act differently.

While each chapter plays very differently, it's due to very minor and subtle differences in their rules. BA have fast vehicles, accurate jump infantry as troops, sanguinary priests and one or two other unique units. Aside from that, everything is more or less the same, so they would be pretty easily represented by the Chapter Tactics setup I'm proposing. Same is true for each other SM codex other than GKs.



Codex: SM does this quite well in fact: by having the chapter tactics system, it portrays the Fists as stubborn, the Salamanders as burn-happy, etc... but not well enough.

Between "Character A unlocks stuff as Troops" and "Chapter tactics affects the whole army", a LOT of non-listed chapters can be represented by fielding a particular characters. Even Dark Angels (whose major selling point is stubborn/fearless + Death/Raven wings, which is "lots of terminators" and "lots of bikes and speeders" respectively) can be represented inside C:SM via these two methods.

They just didn't take the Chapter Tactics system far enough. I would see an army list where the first page is "choose your chapter", giving you a unit set of chapter tactics. The codex does this pretty well. However, beyond this the army list would contain a bunch of extra units with a tag requiring you to take a specific Chapter Tactics in order to take the unit. Additionally, your choice of Chapter Tactics would give you some extra options. So BT could take 0-10 Scouts in their tactical squads, and everyone could replace their bolter with a CCW.



Space Marines don't lose any variety, release schedule is freed up, GW can still go on producing all the goodies for SM to meet demand, but we get more punctual updates for non-SM.

And for other codices, too, since half the release slots are no longer filled up.

[dethangel]

im with link and eldargal on this there are too many SM codexes as is. you end up with 12 yr waits on non- SM dexes. (DE)
i would like to see them consolidate a few dexes.put the BA+ DA (like the 2nd ED angels of death dex) back together. SW + BT together as one dex. chaos + deamons back together. and GK and Sistas back together
just by combining those codexes you will shave 2yrs off the dex update list and each double codex would be more than addiquit for the respective armys.
the game is way more fun with a verity of human and xeno armys and not just SM v. SM v. SM v. SM. boring......

[FTE-Charge!!!]

NONE!!!

There are no more SM that deserve their own codex!!! Haha, just a bit of a xenos lover's rant, but when GW decided to delve into obscure sections of background and build them into stand alone books (GK anyone?) they have sufficiently polluted the pool of armies out there. What I mean is that nearly half the armies available to players are basically SM with a minor variation or two.

Now a book with mulitple army lists and background entries would be greatly appreciated. Going back to the old DA and BT motto of giving each army an infantry and vechicle upgrade sprue would be amazing. Heck, make em metal bitz packs if you want. This concept would work great for other armies as well; Eldar, IG, etc.

But, again, no more SM books out there!!! (Even though CSM deserve some kind of flavor, but thats another subject)

[eldargal]

Thats a bit drastic, personally I don't think CSM and Daemons should be together (though perhaps they should be able to ally) and GK and SoB shouldn't be together, they are far too different, it would be like including Tau and Orks in the same book.

Marines on the other hand are just Marines, you don't need a whole codex for a few special rules, FOC adjustments (Deathwing etc) and a few SCs.

[dethangel]

Thats a bit drastic, personally I don't think CSM and Daemons should be together (though perhaps they should be able to ally) and GK and SoB shouldn't be together, they are far too different, it would be like including Tau and Orks in the same book.

Marines on the other hand are just Marines, you don't need a whole codex for a few special rules, FOC adjustments (Deathwing etc) and a few SCs.

why not CSM and Demons back together? fluff wise they follow the same chaos gods. it only goes to reason that they would be fielded together, almost always. it would really help the demons out with the whole DS only crap they deal with. it would add alot more verity to chaos armys in general.
you may have a point with the sistas. i don't play them and no one i play with uses them so im not very familier with them. they were one dex before. right?
as for the tau and orks... come on.. really? they're polar opposites.

[DarkLink]

I think the summoned Daemon stuff is understated in the CSM codex, but I don't think that Daemons deserve to be stuffed into a secondary slot in the CSM codex. It's pretty well established that a planetwide Daemonic Incusion can be initiated by a single small cult ritual, and that this is the single greatest threat to the Imperium.

[dethangel]

I think the summoned Daemon stuff is understated in the CSM codex, but I don't think that Daemons deserve to be stuffed into a secondary slot in the CSM codex. It's pretty well established that a planetwide Daemonic Incusion can be initiated by a single small cult ritual, and that this is the single greatest threat to the Imperium.

but could not that same cult summon forth the legions..
all i want, is faster updates for the current dexes. i was just suggesting that if GW shortend the current list it would mean shorter wait times between updates.
it would be cool if all the CSM legions got dexes and eldar craftworlds got there own dexes and the orks,etc
but it would take 30yrs between updates. now if GW could speed up the dex releases to like 8 per yr.(hahaha) then we would be all set.:D

[Marius]

I think the codex like SW, DA or BA should still as codex. And now with 5th edition they are making it very different.

[WereWolf_nr]

Frankly, the SM codices should look like this: Codex: SMs, Codex: CSM, Codex: Grey Knights.

The Grey Knights are the only loyalist chapter that is truly different enough to warrant its own codex. With a little tweaking, BT, SW, BA, DA can all be fit into the vanilla Marine dex. Quite easily, in fact, though you'd end up with a pretty hefty book. There'd be a list of common units, then you would select a Chapter Tactics for your chosen chapter. This would also unlock various unique units and options for each chapter.


BA in C:SM ok, I can go with that
DA in C:SM they are almost there anyway
BT in C:SM is pushing it
SW in C:SM no

First, I don't even like the SW but they are way too different from a codex chapter to be bundled in with the rest. Most other chapters at least give lip service to the Codex Astartes but the SW don't even do that. The list of SW unique units would be longer than the list they had in common with the other chapters. This doesn't even touch on the topic of wargear, which would be it's own nightmare (even allowing for consolidation of like weapons).

[HsojVvad]

AS for an Exno spin off I would like to see a Genestealer cult.

[Hive Mind]

I think it's far more likely that we'll see another SM codex than any get consolidated. Marines pay the shareholder's dividends.

I'd love to see a Genestealer Cult codex but I can't imagine it would be a money-spinner. Fingers crossed but in the meantime there's alway the Fly Lords' version (if you want to be really fluffy) or an IG list (sans Commissars, natch) with Genestealers as elites. I use the rules for the Primaris Psyker for my Magus.

[HsojVvad]

I don't know much about Eldar. I am shocked nobody has said anything about an Eldar Spin off. Didn't they have something like Craftworlds or anything like that before?

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

I wasnt trying to argue the fact that Space Marines have too many dex's as it is or who derserves an update. I was looking for some creativeness on our part for the unspoken chapters, craftworlds, hives etc. that are in the fluff but have no rules or love.

I think there is alot of room for some interesting backgrounds and fun specialization to those who want to go the extra mile.

once again this is all hypothetical, not commenting on the existing codices and their flaws.

Who out there has a iron hands army and want some special rules for them or a renegade chaos warband that wants something cool for his themed army besides Undivided, khorne, tzeentch,nurgle and slaanesh.

for example, i have themed my orks as Death Skulls but they are no different from any other clan in the codex. according to there fluff they are the best looters therefore they should get a point discount for wargear.

[Lerra]

I don't want to see any new codices - it's hard enough to keep up a decent update schedule. That said, I'd love to see more unofficial army lists released via White Dwarf, Forgeworld, or a book like Chapter Approved. This would allow people to play armies like Lost and the Damned, Kroot Mercs, Genestealer Cult, Ad Mech, etc. for casual play. For competitive play, there is always count-as.

Here's my wishlisting for the Chaos Space Marine codex: It will be a huge tome with tons of entries, none of them given FOC slots. In addition to everything in the current codex, you get chaos cultists, conscripts, lesser daemons of every god, greater daemons of every god, furies, drop pods, psyker dreadnoughts, etc.

Then there is a large list of Legions/Factions to choose from, and each Faction has access to certain units in certain FOC slots.

For example, World Eaters have access to Khorne Bezerkers as a Troops choice, but Iron Warriors have access to them as Elites. Every legion has access to lots of options for each slot.

[DarkLink]

Well, one of the best things about using a Chapter Tactics system is that a "new" SM army is really easy to do. You don't have to reprint a full codex of all the same stuff over and over. You just make up a unique USR or two, a couple unique units and FOC changes, and you've got your new army.

GW could provide sections for each of the major chapters (and their successors), with appropriate rules for each.
Ultramarines have Combat Tactics and lots of Honor Guard and Veterans.
BA have Assault squads as troops, Baal preds, Furiosos and Death company.
BT can give everyone Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, and can buff out squads with expendable neophytes (scouts).
Space Wolves get counter assault, Thunderwolf Cavalry, etc.
Dark Angels get Ravenwing and Deathwing, plus Stubborn.
White Scars get Scout and lots of Bikes and Land Speeders and fast transports.
And so on and so forth. It would only take 3-4 pages at most to set up rules for each individual chapter, as opposed to a whole other codex.

[Marius]

The think is that as Dark Angels player I don't want a ultramarines army with deathwing and ravenwing. I want a completly diferent army like 5th edition codex with space wolves and blood angels.

I want my own codex like always with a lot of deathwing options, ravewing options and unique dreads tanks and unique stuff. Unique heroes. I don't wont smurfs with few changes.

GW is doing a great work with the first foundation chapters i hope soon continues with DA

[eldargal]

Whats to stop someone proxying Ultramarines as Dark Angel Ravwning/Deathwing now though? It won't make much (any?) difference putting them in the same book.

[Grimfoe]

I don't want to see any new codices - it's hard enough to keep up a decent update schedule. That said, I'd love to see more unofficial army lists released via White Dwarf, Forgeworld, or a book like Chapter Approved. This would allow people to play armies like Lost and the Damned, Kroot Mercs, Genestealer Cult, Ad Mech, etc. for casual play. For competitive play, there is always count-as.

Here's my wishlisting for the Chaos Space Marine codex: It will be a huge tome with tons of entries, none of them given FOC slots. In addition to everything in the current codex, you get chaos cultists, conscripts, lesser daemons of every god, greater daemons of every god, furies, drop pods, psyker dreadnoughts, etc.

Then there is a large list of Legions/Factions to choose from, and each Faction has access to certain units in certain FOC slots.

For example, World Eaters have access to Khorne Bezerkers as a Troops choice, but Iron Warriors have access to them as Elites. Every legion has access to lots of options for each slot.

Couldn't agree more.

With regard to lumping SM together in one dex, I agree it's more efficient and makes sense. I just don't think the players of the variant chapters will go for it too easily. I play wolves and I wouldn't really have too much of a problem with it if it was done well, but many will be furious as they want their own book with lots of fluff and pretty pictures of their own chapter.

The problem is keeping up the update schedule. Having one comprehensive codex to keep up, for both CSM and SM would be a lot better. Not more profitable, but better for players (even if we didn't know it ourselves).

[gcsmith]

well tbh it would be worse due to less varience, I mean 9/10ths of gamers are going to be marines anyway so why not make it fun for xenos players hwo have different armies with different fluff to play against.

And you know if you lumped into one codex the only chapter with mention would be the ultramarines.

People forget the codex space marines represents the Codex Astartes, armies like SW and DA and BA and BT don't follow that document which is why they have their own codexis not because they are 1st founding.

[Skragger]

I can see the appeal of getting a codex for each chapter, but I agree that it could become a bit silly after a bit. How many codexes (codexi? codexeses?) are too many? Someone would say "Well! I see the DA, SL, UM, BT, BR, BA, SW, QF, Z7, SGoats, and QB7 all got a codex, why cant my chapter get one too? And then the Eldar player goes "wait a minute! This isn't fair! Where are my codexeseseses?" and suddenly GW is pounding out thousands of dollars into making possibly hundreds of new codexes with each edition (because who wants to play with an older edition codex?).

My point is this, I'd *love* to see a Speed Freek Codex to match my Orkly Army, but I ask myself "if there enough on Speed Freeks to warrant their own codex? Essentially they're just vanilla Orks with some nifty new upgrades. Thats not really enough to want to write a full 100 page codex over, and not really enough to sink $35 into to buy it.

So the solution is simple! Why not a) go back to adding in the specialist lists at the back of the codex like they used to, or b) do paper dex's, or c) release addendums to the codex/mini dexes (here's looking at you Codex Armageddon!)

[energongoodie]

AS for an Exno spin off I would like to see a Genestealer cult.

Agreed. A genestealer cult army like the old days would be awesome!
As well as Iron Hands.

[Skragger]

We could do: Codex: Space Marines, and then also have Codex: Chapters, that has a few pages of special rules and units, and a special character for each chapter? They could do that with each army. Codex: CSM and Codex: The Dark Gods (for the thousands sons, world eaters, etc). Codex: Orks, and Codex: Tribes. Codex: Eldar, and Codex: Craftworld. Codex: Tyranids, and Codex: Hives. Etc, etc etc.

I like that idea actually... what do you think?

[Marius]

Why change it? If the actual number of codex works??The BA are happy the SW are happy and the UM are happy and the DA and BT will be happy when they get a new dex. Why change everything and make angry the most of GW gamers. I don't want to be two pages in a ultramarines dex.

[Paul]

If I had to pick one, I would pick Iron Hands.

Unlike the other First Founding chapters, the Tenth Legion lacks not only its own codex BUT ALSO a special character in the Marine codex.

What has happened to the glorious Iron Hands? Are we stuck with a Master of the Forge as our HQ choice, just like any other chapter could do?

Also, the MotF ability doesn't work for Iron Hands; our chapter is not supposed to have many dreadnoughts at all according to the Index Astartes.

[Exterminatus]

Personally i would like to NOT see MORE SM chapters in the making. We all know that they are GW's bread and butter but... why have as many SM chapters (or more) as there are other races in the game combined. I know they are there in the fluff but really, MORE SM chapters... <sigh> I think the imperium of man has enough of em, but i will agree on the caos part, i think they do need a little more info as well. The 200 page codex with several pages dedicated to specific traitors legions i think would be great. And my favorite chapter is the Grey Knights.

"To the righteous we bring hope.To the tainted we bring fire."

- Castellan Garran Crowe

[DarkLink]

Why change it? If the actual number of codex works??The BA are happy the SW are happy and the UM are happy and the DA and BT will be happy when they get a new dex. Why change everything and make angry the most of GW gamers. I don't want to be two pages in a ultramarines dex.

Yeah, but all those other armies? The ones that actually need new codices? Yeah, they're not happy. The space Marine players can whine like the spoiled little kids they'd be acting like.

[HsojVvad]

Well, one of the best things about using a Chapter Tactics system is that a "new" SM army is really easy to do. You don't have to reprint a full codex of all the same stuff over and over. You just make up a unique USR or two, a couple unique units and FOC changes, and you've got your new army.

GW could provide sections for each of the major chapters (and their successors), with appropriate rules for each.
Ultramarines have Combat Tactics and lots of Honor Guard and Veterans.
BA have Assault squads as troops, Baal preds, Furiosos and Death company.
BT can give everyone Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, and can buff out squads with expendable neophytes (scouts).
Space Wolves get counter assault, Thunderwolf Cavalry, etc.
Dark Angels get Ravenwing and Deathwing, plus Stubborn.
White Scars get Scout and lots of Bikes and Land Speeders and fast transports.
And so on and so forth. It would only take 3-4 pages at most to set up rules for each individual chapter, as opposed to a whole other codex.

The problem with this is, you will have say UM players saying since it's in the codex how come I don't get to use Ball preds or Furiossos with Death Comapny. Everything in the codex should be able to be used by anyone, and this is why I believe we have seperate codicies.

Just for those UM (just using them as an example, could be BA players using Termies and Bikes as troops as well) players would use non UM stuff in thier armies.

[DarkLink]

Honestly I really don't see that being a problem. UM players using the current standard Combat Tactics don't complain that they don't get TL meltaguns because they didn't take Vulkan. It's a tradeoff. You either get access to units like Baal Predarors and Furiosos and all your dudes have the Red Thirst, or you get Crusader squads and the Emperor's Champion and Righteous Zeal, or you get Combat Tactics and lots of veterans, or blah blah blah...

[Hive Mind]

I personally don't like the idea of having to take a named SC to make a flavoured army. If that's what you're saying.

I don't want to have to take Sammael (for example) to be able to take Ravenwing bike squads, or Dante to take Sanguinary Guard. I like being able to bung a Chaplain in a Razorback with a combat squad and still being able to make a distinctly Dark Angels army.

Not that any of this really matters because wishing for fewer Marines is the very definition of urinating in the breeze. Maybe when Xenos sell like Marines do we'll get more Xeno codexes.

[Brettila]

The problem with this is, you will have say UM players saying since it's in the codex how come I don't get to use Ball preds or Furiossos with Death Comapny. Everything in the codex should be able to be used by anyone, and this is why I believe we have seperate codicies.

Just for those UM (just using them as an example, could be BA players using Termies and Bikes as troops as well) players would use non UM stuff in thier armies.

Exactly! It is already bad enough that they have that ridiculous paragraph saying it is perfectly OK to have any army-specific SC in a different army by giving him a new name! So, apparently, Ultramarines can do some of those things already...sigh.

[DarkLink]

I personally don't like the idea of having to take a named SC to make a flavoured army. If that's what you're saying.


No, you'd pick Chapter Tactics (Dark Angels), which would let you take bikes as troops, and unlock Sammael as a unit.

[Necron2.0]

Which marines need a new codex? Hmmmmm .....

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3492/downsizedhereticalcy9.jpg

or maybe

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc153/mrteufel/Ronald_McSpaceMarine_by_DometriusKing.jpg

.
.
.

Actually, my serious answer would be comprised of a set containing the following elements:

A) No new SM codices (75%)
B) Iron Hands (25%)

[Marius]

I think the question is not what GW players want. The question is what BA, DA, SW, BT want. And if they prefer the own codex like me. That's what they should do.