Venoms vs Pain tokens

[Mikey87]

I see a lot of army lists with multiple venoms. They seem a very good transport but it seems that a lot of people overlook the fact that the anti/infantry gun on the venom (which is good on it's own) won't work with the idea of generating pain tokens.

Trueborn with blasters in venoms is the opposite of the pain token generation policy the Dark Eldar are all about. The Trueborn shoot amour/vehicles (which don't generate pain tokens) and the venom shoot infantry and thus neglecting Pain tokens for other DE infantry.
Wouldn't raiders with kabalite and ravagers be a lot more viable? The Venoms steal away the pain tokens.
The Razorback with melta marines inside is not useable for DE I think. With DE, Infantry should hunt infrantry and vehicles should shoot at vehicles... People tend to forget about this issue....

What is your opinion of Venoms neglecting Pain tokens?

[DarkLink]

Yes, having infantry shoot infantry and vehicles shoot vehicles is more efficient. In theory.

But you don't want efficiency. You want effectiveness. You can take the most fuel efficient new hybrid to the Indy 500, but you're going to lose no matter how many miles per gallon you get.


Venoms give you a lot of anti-infantry fire for cheap. Trueborn give you a lot of anti-tank firepower, also for very cheap. You might be losing a bit of efficiency by not generating pain tokens, but the purpose of the game is to kill enemy models, not maximize your number of pain tokens.

[SotonShades]

Not to mention, its very rare that one unit can fully wipe out another in shooting alone. As good as the Venom is at anti-infantry, will it wipe out a unit? If yes, don't fire at that unit and choose a bigger/tougher target that it can't kill outright. If not, even if it is only going to leave a single model alive (or especially I should say), let loose and leave an easy kill point for another unit.

[GrenAcid]

Dunno....I dont use Venoms.
But what you said is valid...

[w7west]

Many a former space marine has gone insane contemplating the workings of a flawless Dark Eldar assault.

"They did what?? But BOLS_GOAT said they were going to spam XXX not use YYY like that!"

[blackarmchair]

That's why the way I've seen them run successfully is a squad of 5 with 2x Splinter Cannons and 3x Blasters in the Venom.

That way they're dual purpose and can kill tanks AND get pain tokens.

[L'Etat Cest Moi]

As stated, with Dark Eldar you need to do things efficiently to be successful. Alpha-Strike success>pain tokens.

That said, if all of your infantry start with one or two pain tokens then this is a nonissue.

[BlindGunn]

I think the key is - as stated earlier - pick your targets carefully.

Venoms would be great for helping to overwhelm that 5-man Terminator squad closing on your Warrior Sniper Squad.

Venoms would/could be more useful (if they live long enough) in the later game by reducing models in units so you can get that Pain token, or act as Fire-Fighters for some unexpected infantry push you otherwise wouldn't be able to counter.

(Though, as Dark Eldar, that would never happen - right?) ;)

[eldargal]

The times I've nearly wiped out a squad with the Venoms and scored an easy pain token withthe warriors/trueborn inside far outweigh the times I've deprived the passengers of a pain token. On the off occassion it has happened I don't think it made much difference to the game.

[blackarmchair]

It's true. Given that the vehicle is open-topped you're free to do things like shoot 2x Splinter Cannons & 3x Shardcarbines out of the top you're really more likely to get a kill with the troops than with the vehicle. You just shoot the vehicle first and the troops second.

Also, FnP aside pain tokens aren't really a big deal for the majority of the units that one would put in a venom. Kabalites get nowhere near as much use out of pain tokens as do Wyches, Hellions, Reavers and Incubi...