HELP!!!! How Should I run Dark Eldar?

[geneticdeviant]

Would appreciate some help from you good people if possible.

I have acquired the new dark eldar codex and im still undecided about how to approach running them.

My first idea was something based around the following:

2 or 3 units of Wyches all led by a Haemonculae for the feel no pain transported in Raiders
Three Ravagers
Wracks as troops
1 or 2 units of Incubi
Reaver Jetbikes
Maybe a unit of grotesques

Would this potentially work? How would you equip these to work most effectively?


Then i got to thinking...................Man!! those transports and Vehicles are very very squishy. So i started thinking about webway portals. I love the idea of these but are they really effective?

My impressions are you woud need at least two or three to guarantee getting them where you want them. Additionally you will need a transport to be able to do this as quick as possible. Infact i would say this needs to be deployed first turn and really you need to go first to avoid getting shot to pieces before getting a chance to deploy them.

So i was thinking of taking Vect and maybe Baron to almost guarantee the first turn Alpha strike. Everything will be in reserve first turn except the three Raiders with the Haemonculi in. Bomb them forward and disembark and deply the portals. Protect the portal with the unit and Haemonculi in the opposition players turn (Feel no pain will help here). Next turn bring out the pain, multiple maximum units of Wyches, Talos Pain Engines. Reavers, Hellions etc etc.

How would you advise running a webway portal list? Is this viable? And am i on the right tracks with the above?


Next up i was thinking of running a list with a Synergistic feel to it. I mean by generating lots of pain tokens. The list woud be based around the following:

6 Haemonculi
3 Chronos Parasite Engines
Multiple Units Of Wracks
Grotesques

So everything in the army will have Feel No Pain minimum. Sounds like fun.

So any advice on running the above? Again, is this viable? Am i on the right tracks with the way i'm approaching it?


Maybe even a combined Webway portal and Synergy pain token list would be viable with Vect and three Haemonculi, Multiple units of Wracks, Grotesques, 3 Chronos Engines? Decisions, Decisions...............


Your advice would be greatly appreciated guys.

[Necron_Lord]

Any list you come up with will probably do well against some types of lists, and less well against others, but that is true for every army. WWP is good for keeping units from being shot, but an opponent can surround it, to deny certain units from coming out of them. Scourges and Reavers can ignore them, but Wyches, Beastmasters, and Taloi cannot.

I would say get a list you think would be fun, and after getting a couple dozen games in against different types of armies you'll have an idea of what you'll need to have more success. Of course, you'll do best with a balanced list with anti-mech dakka coupled with assault units. Dakka units are Ravagers, Scourges, Reavers, Fliers (Razorwings, Voidravens), Warriors/Trueborn, and Transports.

Assault units are Archons, Succubi, Incubi, Wyches/Bloodbrides, Grotesques, Wracks, Harlequins, Beastmasters, and Taloi.

Each unit performs better against certain types of units, so deployment and game skills are very important as DE are all about competent execution. They have all the tools to beat anyone if you play a decent list and play them well, but their 'squishiness' means that any mistakes you make can have you get brutally punished. Just the way of Commorragh, the strong and devious thrive, the weak are enslaved or killed. ;P

[JonnyRoxtar]

Use units you like. Whether its lookwise or fluffwise or ruleswise. Then make it work.

I make armies out of stuff I like, sometimes they work first time other times it takes a while to see what theyre good at and what their role should be, but at all times I have a cool, to me anyway, army.

[Joe TwoCrows]

You shouldn't: you should *fleet* them.

If you're coming from a Marine army, forget everything you know. DE don't assault the same, shoot the same, move the same or die the same.

Start from scratch, which makes JonnyRoxtar and NL''s advice sound. Play for fun, and play fluffy. Don't expect to win very much for a while until you see what makes sense for you.

Individual DE models are squishy; your instinct is correct there. So, use transports as mobile cover while alive, or static cover when dead. Don't be shy about sacrificing any unit for the game objective. Assault units die to shooting; keep them in multi-assault if you can. But also gang up; your incubi may not kill a Greater Demon, but add a talos? Distract your opponent: Bladevaning a Long Fang unit means they have to deal with the Reavers, not the incoming Wych squad. Make your opponent move the way you dictate; a webway portal is impassible and indestructible so zoom up and drop it in his assault lane to go around. Never think like a mon-keigh.

Welcome to Commoragh.

[w7west]

For instructions how to play de army, one must first become one with the spirit of the kabal. Initiates may begin this quest by simply going around a store and asking to borrow a single quarter from 5-6 individual players. "I have 1.25 but need 1.50 for a pop do you have a spare Q?" Just do not let a previous victim hear you when you move on to your next unwitting prey. Once funds have been raised to an appropriate level, go forth to the vending machines and purchase not only a pop, but several bags of skittles as well. When questioned about the unexpected bounty upon your return, use these newly gained skittles to leverage other players into doing simple tasks for you such as retrieving the bathroom key, the game board, putting away terrain, etc.

This is just an example of how one may get their foot into the door of becoming a great Kabal. Once you get into the correct state of mind, orchestrating your raid will become second nature.

[thecactusman17]

W7west: Archon of his FLGS. I like it.

Joe TwoCrows has it on the money here. If you are coming from Space Marines, you are going to be in for a world of difference. Space Marines really shine in the combat phase, on both offense and defense while rolling dice. Dark Eldar really shine in the movement phase, and in other parts of the game where your intelligence and ability to catch your opponent off guard is what counts. A few recommendations:

Dark Lances in particular are one of your greatest assets and most terrible curses. This is a weapon that is 100% reliant on dice going in your favor whenever you deal with tanks. Expect for half your army to fire at a target before even hitting the damn thing, even if you end up killing it and scaring the occupants off the board on the first shot. The Dark Eldar employ a weapon exactly like themselves in this instance: terrifyingly powerful, but shifty and unreliable when you need them most.

NEVER rely on a dark lance to win you the game. Allow the possibility if you have no other options, but if Dark Lances were themselves a race they would rule Dark Eldar society with an iron fist.

Webway portals are really cool ideas with a few important caveats: They have to start off table, prevent a model from shooting, forcibly expose said model to enemy attack, and even if they deploy perfectly your army is mostly held in reserve, trusting in lucky dice to get you onto the field. If you have infantry units that simply MUST be on the field early to be effective, spend the extra 20-30 points to give them a transport.

Pain tokens are useful and effective and their effects start immediately. A great tactic is charging a unit, killing it almost to the last man, getting countercharged by another unit, and then killing the rest of the initial squad (giving you FNP) to suddenly make your unit that much more survivable. Wyches do this well, obviously.


Combat drugs: If you are playing wyches, seriously consider Duke Sliscus as your HQ. The ability to choose between drugs is really important in a unit that already outclasses so many others in stats. Against marines? Choose the reroll wounds ability. Tau gunlines? Pick the Pain token to give you a save.

Haywire anything: Best anti-tank in the army. Very serious. Can kill a ******* monolith if you throw enough haywire at it.

[w7west]

Haywire anything: Best anti-tank in the army. Very serious. Can kill a ******* monolith if you throw enough haywire at it.

100% true. A 10 man(woman) wyche squad with haywires is far more devastating to a parking lot style army than pumping 20+ lances out. If you can get your wyches in combat with 2+ vehicles and still get one lone wyche into base with a guardsman, you have achieved a very beautiful thing and perhaps even the pleasure of a "cheesy move" mutter from a guard commander.

[GrenAcid]

My 2 cents.
Dont forget raiders can wreck your enemy line after units move out form inside, ziping 24+2d6(eather sails) and tank shock whatever you can(I mange to push tactical out of board) and its nice fire magnet(turbo-boost gives you 3++) so rest of army will take less shooting.

Strike hard, strike fast....

[Mikey87]

what? Raiders getting a 3++ save for turboboosting? True?

[w7west]

what? Raiders getting a 3++ save for turboboosting? True?

4th ed: 3++

5th ed: 4+ cover save (space marines can't turboboost most vehicles so nerf)

[hammer]

The dark eldar list I have been working on was just changed by the new codex, but all i did was ad in a Haemonculi with Crucible of Malediction. You now have a 70 point model that you want right in the middle of the enemy. You can only use the Crucible once so you want as many grey knights on the field before you decide to set it off. The down side to the Crucible is that it is a random range anywhere from 3 to 18 inches, but it is an area of effect weapon. The best part about using this againts grey knights is that even the storm ravens, rhions, and land raiders are psykers so even they are effected but are given a leadership of 10 to try and pass the test with. The Crucible also forces you enemy to roll a leadership test for each model that is hit not for units as a whole and even effects psykers that are in transports. I wouldn't bet on this killing off whole squads but it should soften up the enemy for your next shooting and assult phases.

[thecactusman17]

Crucible of malediction is terrible. I mean really, REALLY terrible. Let's assume that EVERYTHING goes to plan up to the moment you pop this bad boy. Being that you are playing a normal game and not some theoretical "If you brought this then I'll bring THIS" opponent, you are not dealing with Grey Knights. You are instead dealing with Space Wolves or other marines, Eldar, Chaos something or other, Orks, or Eldar.

Your optimally placed crucible is direclty in the heart of 1 psyker. Good job! He only has to fail a Ld 10 check to take a single wound, with a rerolled invulnerable save!

OK, Ok. Better: You pop in the midst of a Grey Knights army, or an Eldar Warlock squad with Embolden. You kill one out of every five models forced to take the test (remember, GKs only take the test on one model). If you are spectacularly lucky, you kill a psychic transport and the squad inside.

Every normal psyker? Laughing their butts off when your mega ultra anti-psyker weapon doesn't do anything and you get mauled.

[hammer]

To begin with every psyker has to take a leadership check, not every psyker unit, and besause it is a leadership check and not a psychic test they must take it one at a time not as a unit, and the crucible does not allow any saves of any kind to be taken against it so if you fail your leadership test you simply are removed from the table. Not to mention that grey knights are making a huge turn out at tournaments, as a matter of fact the last tournament i was in i had two games against knights and the crucilbe put a huge dent in both of those armies. And yes the haemonculus was crushed as a result but when you play as dark eldar that is part of the plan, having a focal point for my enemy to pour into allows the rest of my forces to move up. I'm not saying that it works every time but i like have a 70 point model that pops out and makes the knights easier to kill off so i can get more pain tokens. Oh and if you position your raiders right and give them torment gernade launchers the psykers that have to pass a leadership test are at a -1 to their leadership.

[thecactusman17]

Hmm. Ok, so I re-read BOTH codexes in question. Here is what should happen at absolute BEST for the dark Eldar player, and which will almost certainly be rendered null and void when the Grey Knights get their first FAQ.

You drop into the midst of five seperate, psychic grey knight units. For the sake of argument (and to unfairly stack the odds in favor of the DE player, as they have better damn well done) we will say that there are two loaded vehicles, two infantry squads on foot, and Coteaz.

You drop your Crucible. Your opponent makes exactly one check for each exposed psyker unit. That will be both infantry squads, both psychic vehicles, and Coteaz on foot. One check for each. Three checks at Ld. 10, 2 checks at Ld. 9. In each case, losing the check means losing the unit. In the case of the transports, they may also lose the unit inside.

In the case of the Ld. 10 transports and Coteaz, the default chance of killing any unit is 1 in 12. That improves to 1 in 6 if you have a set of torment grenades nearby.

The Ld. 9 test is at 1 in 6. The Ld. 8 test with torment grenades is at a little worse than 1 in 5 chance of success.

The best case scenario in the book, hitting the psykers in a hencman squad, is a little better than 1 in 3, and you will remove all the psykers in the squad. Which you could have done just as easily had you shot them with your standard rifles, without the uncertainty factor.

I'm not saying your opponent won't roll 11 in these tests, but after you consider that you are giving up at least one kill point to make this work, I'm just not sure how you could reaslitically come to the conclusion that this is a good trade. None of the scenarios are likely. You have to be downright reckless in your approach, placing yourself in the midst of an enemy formation. Against most armies, you won't even get to use this power or you will only get it against 1-2 models in the entire force, and with rare exception they will be making the tet on Ld. 10.

[hammer]

You make some very good points I must admit, but the main thing you are missing is that the units as a whole do not take the leadership test but each model that is with in the range of the crucible. So even if my chances are 1 in 12 to kill a knight they normally come in 10 man squads, so i have 10 chances right there.

[w7west]

You make some very good points I must admit, but the main thing you are missing is that the units as a whole do not take the leadership test but each model that is with in the range of the crucible. So even if my chances are 1 in 12 to kill a knight they normally come in 10 man squads, so i have 10 chances right there.

exactly. Unless GK has some special rule I am not aware of that allows them to use force weapons without being a psycher, every single one of them is a psycher and must stand in line to take their individual ld check.

Who cares if anything actually happens when you pop your crucible? The threat of making your opponent play russian rullet with so many models will be in his head and for what 20 points?

One key aspect of becoming a great kabal, as mentioned in an earlier post, is to bring out the despondency in your opponent and take pleasure in these moments. Popping a crucible allows you to crack open a fresh bag of skittles and sit back in amusement as your opponents finest warriors roll for their very existence.

[thecactusman17]

Squad counts as a single psyker, as explicitly states in the "brotherhood of psykers" special rule. This, no more than one test. Add nothing says that force weapons are for psykers only. Only that a psychic test must be made. If a model was allied to take a test for another model, it could activate a FW. But currently, psykers have to take their own tests.

[hammer]

Feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but under special rules for grey knights doesn't it say that they have the psyker rule. This would indicate that they are all psykers and the brotherhoop rule was created to make it easier to play the game. It makes it so that you don't have some models with force weapons and some with only power weapons.

[thecactusman17]

I'm going to correct you, but only after getting home where I could re-confirm this with my copy of the dex.

The GK squads all have Brotherhood of Psykers. No squad-based psyker unit in the Grey Knight codex has the psyker special rule, but several have either Brotherhood or wording in their rules that functions identically to Brotherhood for the sake of this argument (Psyker henchmen). They are psykers only as a whole unit working in concert, not individually, even when reduced to the last man. So at most in these cases, you are going to be taking a test against a "single psyker" which comprises a single unit or group of like models, minus any independant characters.

Short version: In Grey Knights, only models with Independant Character, or models that are individual units on the battlefield such as vehicles and MCs, count as individual psykers. Anything else with a psychic power is treated as a single psyker no matter how many models comprise the unit.


If the Grey Knight unit suffers the Perils of the Warp, or any attack that specifically targets psykers, it is resolved against the Justicar or Knight of the Flame (if he is alive) or against a random non-character model in the squad if the Justicar or Knight of the Flame is dead.

A crucible of Malediction will only ever affect one model in a BoP squad.

I rest my case. In the single best case scenario, Crucible of Malediction can only ever remove one model per test, with the possible exception of removing a Psychic Transport Vehicle.

--edit--
There are a handful of units that would be affected as described as W7west and Hammer suggest above. Those would be some of the psychic squads in Tyranids and Eldar. Units like Zoanthrope squads, Carnifex squads, and most notably Eldar Warlock squads would take tests per individual model. Warlocks are psykers because in each case they affect the local wraithbone constructs to prevent wraithsight, an ability that can ONLY be done by psykers per the wraithsite rules.