GK Half Rifledread

[bonedale]

Obviously everyone seems to be jumping on the psy-rifledread X3. But I was wondering what the statistics and thoughts are on a mixed version, TL autocannon, and TL lascannon. for 20pts more.

I think it would be more effective against a few targets such 2+ and 3+ infantry, and the land raider. I'm a little old school in that lascannons have never failed me and I haven't seen the need to jump ship. But with cover, and flexible options, it has fallen in popularity.

Targeting land raiders, you either have autocannon trying to get a 6 with 2 dice, or with a lascannon trying to get a 5 or 6 with one dice, so it isn't going to make a big impact in a 6 turn game either way. But against heavy troops, I prefer a guarantee kill, verse a chance for easy saves.

Problem is of course cover. If the enemy has it, clearly the autocannon wins.

Any other thoughts? am I crazy thinking of spending 20pts more

[Skragger]

I'd say take it for games where you have the 20 points to spare.. maybe 1500+, for smaller point games take what we found to be more efficiant. Just my two teef, I don't know much about the space-marine snuggler.

[DarkLink]

Not worth it. You lose a shot, only gain +1 str on one remaining shot, and cost more.

[Paul]

Not worth it. You lose a shot, only gain +1 str on one remaining shot, and cost more.

Dun forget the two fewer AP points.

[DarkLink]

Unless it's AP 1, I wouldn't say it matters too much. The Dread's primary target is vehicles, let the GK infantry handle enemy infantry. You do have an army of power weapons, after all.

The Dread's job is to put as many high-str rounds downrange into as many vehicles as possible. You need to maximize this in order to make up for the rest of the army's lack of melta. Diluting that abillity to gain a tiny advantage against infantry with good armor saves isn't worth it.

[somerandomdude]

Sure, but AP 2 with one shot isn't a heavy infantry killer either. Still has to hit, still has to wound, and then it has to not provide cover (which is very difficult for a Dreadnought, since it is most likely towards the back line). There's a reason people don't use Plasma Pistols.

Also, you're paying for Psybolt Ammo, but not utilizing it fully. Psybolt Ammo is a steal on a Rifleman Dreadnought. You're wanting to spend 25 points to go from four S7 shots to two S8 and a S9. You're also mixing strengths for taking out vehicles. Even S8 vs. S9 makes you want to target different vehicles.

Also, how many AV14 (the only AV I'd even consider as an "advantage" for the Lascannon) are you planning on facing? Against AV 11/12 (most common) more shots at S8 is much better.

What else does the GK army have? A whole lot of Rending S7 shots, and a lot of power weapons. If you want to ignore armor saves, you've got that covered. And, if you know that the best way to take out marines is with torrent of fire, then you have that covered too.

[Lemt]

S9 is bad against AV14, even if that may not seem intuitive. Against AV14 you have to use the Vindicare, melta from henchmen, or S7 rending. The S7 rending isn't that good, but it makes up for it by easily getting 8 shots on even the most basic unit.

[dethangel]

i just used a tllc/tlac dred today. result--
TLLC -6 turns, 6 tl shots =1 popped rhino and 5 instakilled obliterators.
TLAC-6 turns, 12 tl shots = 11 hits, 8 wounds= nothing

the psyac didnt even scratch a single obliterator and it only glanced the rhino once.
lascannons aren't that bad. specialy with heavy infantry.

[Bean]

What is worth considering is leaving the assault cannon on one arm playing TLAC and Assault cannon with psybolts. It's actually a little cheaper, since the assault cannon is standard, and the assault cannon (with psybolts) is excellent against virtually every target. The only place it loses is range, which is why I wouldn't do it that way (and it looks way less cool) but if you're looking to widen the dread's effective target selection, Assault cannon is definitely a better choice than lascannons. That psybolt assault cannon is much better at land-raider killing than a TL Las cannon.

[Lemt]

i just used a tllc/tlac dred today. result--
TLLC -6 turns, 6 tl shots =1 popped rhino and 5 instakilled obliterators.
TLAC-6 turns, 12 tl shots = 11 hits, 8 wounds= nothing

the psyac didnt even scratch a single obliterator and it only glanced the rhino once.
lascannons aren't that bad. specialy with heavy infantry.

You shouldn't use the results in one game to judge how good or bad a weapon is. There you had above-average shooting from the TLLC, and perhaps inadequate target selection. Assault Cannons should be aimed at Terminatorish targets only if there's no easier target within range. And still you had bad AC shooting.

[somerandomdude]

the psyac didnt even scratch a single obliterator and it only glanced the rhino once.

That's because, judging by your results, you only SHOT the rhino one turn.

Again, that's the problem with taking a TLLC and TLAC - they like different targets, but being on the same model means they can't shoot at different targets. Of course the TLLC worked better against what you were shooting at, but that means that you wasted 5 points on Psybolt Ammunition and could've left that arm as a CCW.

[bonedale]

I wouldn't say they (AutoC and LC) are shooting for different targets. They are optimized for different targets for sure, but in game you shoot what you feel is a priority at 48", something the GKs lack. Understand I'm not making a case for the LC/AC dread as a better rifledread, just different with interesting -/+. Maybe simply for the reason people have TLLCs dread arms, and shouldn't feel like they are really missing out if they don't want to convert or FW.

In test rolls I haven't seen any benefit to the LC arm except when engaging LRs. So for 20pts more that may or may not be worth it in your gaming group. It may kill a few more MEQ/Termies throughout a game, but that is really more dependent on saving throws, etc. The dual TLAutoC is still the best option, I am just going to sprinkle a few LCs in my list.

[DarkLink]

If you're trying to turn psyrifle dreads into a LR killer, then you're wasting points on the wrong type of unit. Take a MM dread, or an Inquisitor with henchmen, or one of the other units that can actually have a decent chance of killing Land Raiders.


Let the psyrifle dread do its job. Its job is to be cheap, while putting out as many high str shots as it can. By far the most efficient way of doing this is dual psybolt autocannons. Then you can use it to great effect on everything other than AV 14. And then you let your other units hand the Land Raiders.

[Bean]

i just used a tllc/tlac dred today. result--
TLLC -6 turns, 6 tl shots =1 popped rhino and 5 instakilled obliterators.
TLAC-6 turns, 12 tl shots = 11 hits, 8 wounds= nothing

the psyac didnt even scratch a single obliterator and it only glanced the rhino once.
lascannons aren't that bad. specialy with heavy infantry.

This is like a text-book example of why isolated anecdotes don't constitute good data.

[dethangel]

You shouldn't use the results in one game to judge how good or bad a weapon is. There you had above-average shooting from the TLLC, and perhaps inadequate target selection. Assault Cannons should be aimed at Terminatorish targets only if there's no easier target within range. And still you had bad AC shooting.

its not the only game ive ever used lascannons in...i use them a lot. i just happened to use that set-up, that day and it worked out well .the results were fresh in my head. my opponant actully had bad luck using his lascannons against me.(i made 3, 6+ cover saves in 1 turn. on a shrouded storm raven.very lucky)
my point is its a lot easer to make a 2+ than a 5++. duh
those obliterators were 45" away raining heavy weapon fire down on my head they became the priorty. when all the units closer were bogged down in CC or trying to get closer.
my vindicare assassin was the real can opener until in turn 5, it met a flanking melta squad. ouch

[Exterminatus]

Gona have to agree with Darklink, If you'r worried about LR's vindi with 4d6 pen is nice or any combo of GK units with some hammers and hammer hand and thats alot of str 10 hits. Emperor forbid u have a Liby as well and have might of titan for Str 10 + 2d6 armor pen... ouch.

"To the righteous we bring hope. To the tainted we bring fire."

- Castellan Garran Crowe