GK list help

[Tupenzero]

So here is the issue I want to put together a decent tourney level list for the Grey Knights. I would also like it to be easily scaled back for small pick up games around 1000 pts. I have built a bunch of stuff right now and I can get more but would prefer not to go too crazy. I will list what I have and hope fully you all can help me access the situation and see if I can make a really tight list out of what I already have. I would really like to have the army led by Mordrak, as I have 5 ghost knights already painted up for him. Some of my stuff is magnetized and I will not it in the list as well. You will also notice that I have all Grey Knights and no inquisition. That is a thematic choice for now, but if there are inquisition units that rules-wise can't be ignored I am not opposed to having them in my list.

I have:

Mordrak
3x Ghost Knights w/ halberds
2x Ghost Knights w/ swords

Draigo

Librarian w/ warding stave


1x Paladin Apothecary w/ Halberd
1x Paladin w/ Banner
4x Paladin w/ Halberd and Incinerator
4x Paladin w/ Halberd


(Note all of my actual Grey Knights in power armor have magnetized packs for regular and personal teleporter)

1x Grey Knight w/ Demon Hammer
3x Grey Knight w/ Swords
5x Grey Knight w/ Psycannons
6x Grey Knight w/ Halberds


1x Dread Knight w/ Gatling Psilencer and Heavy Incinerator


1x Storm Raven with all options magnetized

[isotope99]

Tough one this as you have a little too much super elite for small games.

This is what I came up with:

Mordrak 200
Ghost knights200

Terminators 200
Incinerator 5

Dread Knight 200

Grey knights 100
Daemon hammer10
Psycannon 10

Paladdin 55
Incinerator 5

Sub-total 985

6 halberd Purifiers156
4 Psycannon purifiers136

Storm raven 205
Teleport homer15

Sub-total 1497

[Tupenzero]

Thanks for taking a look. Only issue I see is a tiny one. Can't take an incinerator on a single paladin. And you are right about the uber eliteness. I wanted a small model count army and this is what happened.

[Xas]

So here is the issue I want to put together a decent tourney level list for the Grey Knights. I would also like it to be easily scaled back for small pick up games around 1000 pts.

Right with the introduction you asked for something that isnt possible.


Grey Knights are an army that works on synergy for most of it's power.
Synergy is a very frail thing that doesnt live trough scaling up or down.


You cannot simply take out 500 points of a 1500pts list and perform any good.

Additionally synergy is something you have to develop yourself as it is very player dependant.


For some generel tips:
Get some termiantors/paladins with psycannons
If possible remove the psilencer from the nemesis knight. In an army where every dude has an assoult2 s4 weapon and you want as many of them as possible to be able to compete you dont need to spend extra points on additional s4 firepower. the flamer however is good.
get some more PAGK with swords. you need cheap troops for the proper "meat" in your army. sadly all the melee upgrades are overpriced on non purifier power armor grey knights.

[Tupenzero]

I appreciate your directness xas, but I think perhaps I did not articulate my request very well. I am looking for a competitive tourney list (as much synergy as I can get) and a decent way to scale down for less competitive pick up game list for in the shop games with my mates. I will take your recommendations and I will most likely be making my halberd carrying PAGK's into purifiers and then making 2 fresh new 10 man squads of PAGK's with base equipment + psycannons. As far as getting more termis to make wysiwyg weapons to get more psycannons, I think I'll hold off on that for now. Plus I like the incinerators fine. Much fewer points and a nice way to soften up groups before the assault.

Also, about the gatling psilencer, I don't really understand your argument. 35 pts gets you 12 s4 rending shots a turn. I don't really see the down side in more firepower. Please correct me if I've gone completely off the rails on that assessment.

Thanks

[DarkLink]

Basically, your army already has plenty of str 4 shooting. What you don't have, however, is a whole lot of anti-tank. GKs can devastate almost any army with it's anti-infantry shooting without upgrades. But you need to get them out of their tanks first, and until you do that all your other shooting is useless.


This applies to psilencers in general more than the gattling psilencer, though. The gattliing psilencer isn't bad, if you like it go ahead and keep it. The Dreadknight's other guns aren't that great, and none of them give you the anti-tank you always want more of. Normal psilencers, however, are utterly useless. Any time you ever take a psilencer, ever, under any circumstances, you should have a psycannon instead.

[Col_Festus]

As was already stated I think you need a bit more meat to your army. This will allow you to remove things, and swap stuff around when you want to shrink down to smaller point games.

Grey Knights strength seems to be in their ability to be flexible and tactical through their use of pyskic powers. You don't need to take a lot of bling in order to make them work. In fact in smaller games more bodies is better and you best leave the bling at home.

My suggestion would be to pick up another squad of PAGK and just build them all with Nemesis Force Swords. I think point for point one of the best buys in the book is 10 PAGK with psybolt ammo, 2x pyscannons + Daemon hammer in a rhino. They are scoring, can flex between launching devistating assaults with hammer hand, fighting multiwound creatures with force weapons, shooting up infantry with str 5 storm bolters, destorying light armor with rending/str 5 shots or cracking heavy armor with their daemon hammer. They clock in at around 295 points and so squads can easily be added or removed.

Another great thing I noticed for scaling issues is characters. If you want to scale down and save ALOT of points but still retain the core synergies of your army (pyskic powers) look into taking Ordo Mallius or Ordo Xenos inquisitors in power armor with force weapons. If you give them rad grenades they come in around 75 points. Do they hit as hard a Grey Knight? No.. but with Hammer hand they can get up str 4 and the enemeis are -1 toughness in hth from rad grenades. They can also bring a pyscannon to the fight or terminator armor if you wish. Taking an inquisitor like this saves you over 100 points in some cases.. or more if you are using special characters. Its great too because you can get some conversions going to make some neat looking inquisitors =) I plan on converting up a few as "gatherers". The old marines (hence Toughness 3 str 3) that go out looking for fresh recruits.

For example a nice 1000 point list may look something like this.

10 man Grey Knight Strike Squad - 295 points
2x Pyscannons
Daemon Hammer
Pysbolt ammo
Rhino + Dozer blade

9 man Grey Knight Strike Squad - 240 points (inquisitor goes here)
1 x Pyscannon
Daemon Hammer
Pysbolt ammo
Rhino + Dozer blade

Inquisitor - 78 points
Power armor
Pyskic mastery level 1 (force sword and hammer hand)
rad grenades

Dreadnought - 145
Twin linked lascannons

Dreadnought - 135
2x twin linked autocannons
pysbolt ammo

this comes in at 893 points. So You can still fit quite a lot of boots on the table for 1000 points with GKs. If you feel like you need more you can drop 1 dread and squeeze in a smaller squad in a razor back perhaps, or fit some purifiers in or even a terminator squad. Just something to think about =)

[Tupenzero]

If you want to scale down and save ALOT of points but still retain the core synergies of your army (pyskic powers) look into taking Ordo Mallius or Ordo Xenos inquisitors in power armor with force weapons.

I actually came to this conclusion as well last night as I read through the codex again. I catually made a nifty little Ordo Malleus Inquisitor out of the old PASM Librarian model tarted up with some GK bits, the old inquisition shoulder pads from the SM boxes and a little greenstuff icon on the helmet.

Plus I have decided to pick up a bunch more PAGK to the tune of 20. All Swords and psycannons and integrate a couple of the other weapons from other squads into them as needed (eg. hammers and halbers)

I appreciate the help guys. I am coming back from a 2 year 40K sabbatical and it is taking a bit for me to get my feet back under me as I am reeling at the wealth of massive changes to the rules and to the meta dynamics.

edit* added photo

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm163/tupenzero/Inquisitor/4ca1db03.jpg