Printing Warhammer

[Mikey87]

I've read that 3D-printing (Layering very thin sheets of plastic) will very common practice within a year or so. Hell, you could buy a 3D-printen already for around 1000 dollars... Could this mean expensive miniatures and GW monopoly on producing miniatures are past-tence.

What do you think about 3D-printing and warhammer?

[gwensdad]

Good machines that can produce high-detailed figures are still awhile off. Printers that can "print" without much detail may be very widely available in 5 years but high-detailed ones will take some time to hit the consumer market.

[Rapture]

As long they are multi-part plastic kits, I don't care how they make them. Building models is an important part of the hobby for me. So, even if they were cheap, I wouldn't buy models that I couldn't put some effort into individualizing.

[Skragger]

Its an interesting idea to be sure! However the technology is still fairly weak. At best we can make stuff that would look like the old RT minis. And the other issue is, the final product is still paper in the end, just 3D paper. So its very, very flimsy.

Its tech thats well suited for making models for archetectural drawing, but beyond that, its not to hot. Good idea though, maybe in another 10-15 years

[DarkLink]

You mean Rouge Trader models that look like this (http://www.shapeways.com/model/58877/ryuushi_warleader.html) or this (http://www.shapeways.com/model/170270/pilot_for_mustang___1_9th_scale.html)?

The problem with 3d printing is that quality is expensive, not that quality doesn't exist.

[krispy]

Its an interesting idea to be sure! However the technology is still fairly weak. At best we can make stuff that would look like the old RT minis. And the other issue is, the final product is still paper in the end, just 3D paper. So its very, very flimsy.

Its tech thats well suited for making models for archetectural drawing, but beyond that, its not to hot. Good idea though, maybe in another 10-15 years


nope, its printing in plastic - its used often for prototyping of parts alongside CAD / some other 3d design programs.

its pretty solid stuff but good industrial printing takes time and costs a fair bit as far as i know, i have a friend that works with it and they talked about how well detailed it can be.

/k

[Ssyrie]

Its an interesting idea to be sure! However the technology is still fairly weak. At best we can make stuff that would look like the old RT minis. And the other issue is, the final product is still paper in the end, just 3D paper. So its very, very flimsy.

Its tech thats well suited for making models for archetectural drawing, but beyond that, its not to hot. Good idea though, maybe in another 10-15 years

Actually 3d printers make models out of many different types of material, but paper isn't one of them.

[Necron2.0]

Actually 3d printers make models out of many different types of material, but paper isn't one of them.

I have heard of a rapid prototyping methods that utilized thin sheets of paper. The only examples of it that I've heard in actual existence however were home-made devices.

From what I understand, the method GW uses is not the rapid prototyping method most of us would think of. What I've heard is instead of making an actual 3d model from a virtual one, they're feeding their 3d CAD models as input to a high resolution CNC machine that actually manufactures the molds.

[Ssyrie]

I have heard of a rapid prototyping methods that utilized thin sheets of paper. The only examples of it that I've heard in actual existence however were home-made devices.

From what I understand, the method GW uses is not the rapid prototyping method most of us would think of. What I've heard is instead of making an actual 3d model from a virtual one, they're feeding their 3d CAD models as input to a high resolution CNC machine that actually manufactures the molds.



It is what GW does since they are into mass production of most of their mini's.

A 3d printer would be good from making either a small run of a figure/bit, or to make a mini for mold making purposes if casting larger numbers of the figure/bit. I don't think the material currently used by 3d printers could be used to make molds for resin/metal casting, but I could be wrong.

[DarkLink]

I've heard of house printers before, too: http://www.physorg.com/news139161727.html

[Lerra]

Some miniature companies already use 3d printers quite extensively. GW probably does, too.

Step 1: Sculpt Mini
Step 2: Use 3D scanner to generate a computer model of the mini
Step 3: Clean up and alter the model
Step 4: Print it out
Step 5: Create your mold and start production casting

High quality printers are extremely expensive and have high maintenance costs, but they can do detail well above what is required for models. At work, one of the departments uses 3d printers to create detail mechanical parts that are accurate to a fraction of a millimeter. Something like 0.001 mm.

[fuzzbuket]

as long they are multi-part plastic kits, i don't care how they make them. Building models is an important part of the hobby for me. So, even if they were cheap, i wouldn't buy models that i couldn't put some effort into individualizing.

amen!

[Lane]

3D printers, at a cost the average person can justify, that can produce a mini even close to what we are used to are a long way off.

Those $1000 machines (IIRC) are kits that you have to assemble. The resolution is also fairly bad, imagine your minis with steps 2-3 times as thick as common printer paper.

Commercial machines cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. Even these have resolution in the .0015" - .007" (1/2 - 2 human hairs). Even at the low end the steps are still noticeable and would affect paint jobs.

For the printer to be useful you need 3D models to print. Sure, some people will give models away for free and others will scan existing models but most people who spend 100 hours working on a model will want to get paid.

I also expect the first low cost personal 3D printers to include crippleware because of the potential for copyright infringement. There are companies that are much bigger dicks than GW.

[Lemt]

Actually 3d printers make models out of many different types of material, but paper isn't one of them.

zoink (http://www.mcortechnologies.com/index.php/products)

[Necron2.0]

Step 1: Sculpt Mini
Step 2: Use 3D scanner to generate a computer model of the mini


There isn't any need to sculpt a master model. Most would generate the 3D virtual model directly. There are plenty of software packages available that contain libraries of basic human models. Poser jumps immediately to mind. I think Zbrush may have stock figures available as well. In addition, there are numerous websites that either have free models for download or else will sell you models rather inexpensively. Also, if you have been trained, it's not hard at all to model up pretty much anything you can imagine directly. Heck, if worse came to worse you could create reasonably detailed models in Google Sketchup, which is practically freeware. Here's something I did on a lark - a doodle just to see what I could do:
>>Star Wars Mandalorian Basilisk Wardroid<< (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=f74eadba80faaa53ce7fe98e3ba6d827)

I know that all the Kingdom Death miniature line is completely done up in CAD before being committed to production. I won't post images here, because of nudity, but if you google "twilight knight 3d" you'll see what I mean. From several leaks we know that much (if not all) of the DE line was created in CAD. I'd actually be surprised to learn that GW has any traditional sculpters on staff anymore.

[eldargal]

GW not only has traditional sculptors on staff but was hiring more as of a few months ago, I know someone who applied.

[Necron2.0]

Ah, great! I prefer hand crafted minis to computer generated ones. It's true that you can do some amazing things with CAD models, but in the end they strike me as being somewhat homogenized.

[Lane]

The WD article that talked about their new digital sculpting and CNC machining also mentioned they would sculpt some models using traditional methods then use an optical scanner to make 3D models.

This hybrid sculpting method allows them to take advantage of the traditional sculptors design experience and the 3D modeling production advantages.

[Necron2.0]

Wait ... what? Let me see if I have this right. They're paying a traditional artist to sculpt a master. Then they're turning it over to a graphic artist (someone with the skill to create similar models in the computer directly) to scan the master into a 3D CAD file (with an attendant loss of detail). They'd probably need the graphic artist to modify the resultant scan and clean up scanner artifacts. And only then does it go onto the CNC process. Hmm.

I think I agree with this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-G0bkl8MQ

[Lane]

Compared to the old method it is an improvement.

The old way was to sculpt a mini at 3 times normal size (AKA a 3 UP) often done after the concept was sculpted at normal size, then manually traced to cut the mold. The WD article stated it turned a typical mold from 400 hrs machining to 40 hrs.

The optical scanning probably does not reduce the resolution either. I have heard of scanners accurate to <.001".

Just because the model is converted to 3D does not mean they need a 3D artist. Depending on the original sculpt the CAM operator may be able to make any changes needed. The 3d model has to be cut, rotated and modified to allow machining anyway. The main constraints are no undercuts and allowing for draft angles.

Having a traditional sculptor in the loop helps in many ways. it's unlikely that a design will be approved without a physical model. If you design in 3D that requires printing the model which can take a day or so unless printed in house. A sculptor can make minor changes in minutes. Since 3D prints can run over $100 for a single mini it may be cheaper to have a sculptor on staff than it is to print several versions of a sculpt.