FOC Question

[DWest]

I've been reading up on the Coteaz all-Henchmen list, and now I'm confused: does a unit have to fill a FOC slot to count as the required unit for your army minimum? For example, could I run a Summoned Greater Daemon (0-1, doesn't fill a FOC, but otherwise counts as an HQ) in a Chaos Space Marines list as my only HQ?

[Jwolf]

No, as Summoned Daemons "are chosen in addition to your normal minimums and maximums." (Codex: Chaos Space Marines, P.89, SUMMONED DAEMONS)

[DWest]

bah, missed that bit. Thank you, Jwolf.

[DarkLink]

It's not clear.

Most people seem to mistakenly assume that Coteaz's "counts as troops" causes the warband to lose its "does not take up a FOC slot". There is no reason to think this. What category a unit is in on the FOC has nothing to do with whether or not it takes up a FOC slot, and nothing in Coteaz's rule implies in any way that he causes them to lose that rule.

People also mistakenly assume that just because a unit does not take up a force org slot, it does not meet the minimum requirements. There are actually no rules covering this. There are contrary examples (BT Emperor's Champion can count as your 1 HQ, but does not take up a FOC slot, while CSM Summoned Lesser Daemons do not count as your 2 Troops).


Coteaz allows you to take an infinite number of scoring units, which may or may not meet your 2 troop requirements. This needs an FAQ or Errata for clarification. Great job, GW.

[Lemt]

It's not clear.

Most people seem to mistakenly assume that Coteaz's "counts as troops" causes the warband to lose its "does not take up a FOC slot". There is no reason to think this. What category a unit is in on the FOC has nothing to do with whether or not it takes up a FOC slot, and nothing in Coteaz's rule implies in any way that he causes them to lose that rule.

People also mistakenly assume that just because a unit does not take up a force org slot, it does not meet the minimum requirements. There are actually no rules covering this. There are contrary examples (BT Emperor's Champion can count as your 1 HQ, but does not take up a FOC slot, while CSM Summoned Lesser Daemons do not count as your 2 Troops).


Coteaz allows you to take an infinite number of scoring units, which may or may not meet your 2 troop requirements. This needs an FAQ or Errata for clarification. Great job, GW.

How DARE you accuse GW of writing unclear rules?

Shame on you. :p

[Paul]

Actually the rules are pretty clear.

If it "doesn't take up a slot' like the Emperor's Champion, it still counts towards MINIMUM requirements.

The Chaos dex SPECIFICALLY SAYS that Daemons do not count towards minimum requirements, so this overrides the more general ruling above.

[DarkLink]

That's actually a good point. So the best prescedent that we have is that not only can you take an infinite number of warbands, but they do count towards your minimum requirements.

[Ssyrie]

That's actually a good point. So the best prescedent that we have is that not only can you take an infinite number of warbands, but they do count towards your minimum requirements.

So that means for a 1500 point game I can take Coteaz (100 pts) and 93 Death Cult Assassins divided up into 31 squads of 3. Or take Coteaz and 140 Psykers divided up into 28 squads of 5. That's (potentially) 28 Str 7 AP 2 Large Blasts with 36" range. More likely only 20 will fire and 1-2 squads will suffer Perils of the Warp, but that's still pretty insane. Sure you're giving up a lot of kill points, but this cheese is more about tabling your opponent. :D

[Lerra]

take Coteaz and 140 Psykers divided up into 28 squads of 5.

And then your opponent puts Eldrad on the table and laughs maniacally. :D

[Ssyrie]

And then your opponent puts Eldrad on the table and laughs maniacally. :D

Note to self: against Eldar leave psykers at home. Bring 99 Acolytes, 33 with combi-melta, 66 with combi-plasma. Form 33 3 man squads with two plas and one melta each.