Lady Malys Question

[Necron_Lord]

Hi all,

My question is simple, but the answer to it probably isn't. The rule for her crystal heart states the following - Lady Malys is immune to the effects of psychic powers, as is any unit she joins.

That would mean that psychic shooting attacks and powers like Doom and Lash of Submission would not work against her and any unit she joined. What about psychic powers which enhance units which might attack her? Are guide, warptime, hammerhand, nemesis force weapons, quicken, etc. also worthless against her and the unit she joined?

RAW I would think 'yes', as those psychic powers could have an effect upon her, but indirectly. How has this been resolved in your sector?

[memnarch_129]

Lady Malys rule says that her and any squad she joins are immune to the effects of Psycic Powers. What you have to consider is who the target of the power is as that is who it "effects". Powers such as Hammerhand, Warptime, etc... effect the person/squad that is using the power. So buff powers or anything that has effects on the squad casting it will not be stopped by Lady Malys Crystal Heart.

[DrLove42]

Yeah...say a Farseer guides a Dire Avenger squad. They then shoot Malys and her unit. Since she is not being affected by the power, the thing shooting her is, it has no effect.

[talos]

Guide affects the eldar squad not the enemy unit.

[Necron_Lord]

Lady Malys rule says that her and any squad she joins are immune to the effects of Psycic Powers. What you have to consider is who the target of the power is as that is who it "effects". Powers such as Hammerhand, Warptime, etc... effect the person/squad that is using the power. So buff powers or anything that has effects on the squad casting it will not be stopped by Lady Malys Crystal Heart.

My question was does 'immune to the effect of psychic powers' include indirect psychic effects like buffing, and everyone seems to have the narrow interpretation that the answer is 'no', it only includes direct psychic effects. For example, let's say a Librarian inflicts an unsaved wound and then takes a psychic test to try and inflict instant death on her. Since it's a 'direct' psychic power, the crystal heart wargear comes into play and disallows it. But if a GK squad with nemesis force weapons attacks her and her unit, they take a psychic test before attacking (actually it doesn't state when the test is taken except in the case of units with varying initiatives), then the crystal heart doesn't work because it's a unit buff, even though the effect is the same - a psychic power which inflicts instant death on those who receive unsaved wounds due to a psychic power. Buffing also has an effect on the target unit, but indirectly. As the rule is worded it only says effected, not directly effected.

Then take a look at the Aegis rule for GK. There it says that a psychic power that does not specifically target a unit with the Aegis does not suffer the penalty the Aegis rule will inflict. There specific scenarios are mentioned. In the Crystal Heart rule such distinctions are not made.

In short, most people seem to interpret 'immune to the effects of psychic powers' to mean 'immunes to the effects of psychic powers targeting Lady Malys or any unit she has joined', which is a narrower interpretation than how the rule is written. It could be the case, but it might not either. I think it needs an FAQ to clear up, because being attacked by a psychically-buffed unit affects said unit for sure. GW is notoriously inconsistent allowing Runes of Warding to work all the time even if both parties are embarked in transports, but Shadows in the Warp doesn't effect psykers embarked in vehicles.

Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback, all!

P.S. - I am NOT in the camp that Stubborn trumps the 'weaken resolve' power of PBS, which is a minority opinion.

[Jwolf]

Adding a PS to demonstrate that you're wrong about something else doesn't help your case, Necron Lord. ;)

Lady Malys is immune to Psychic Powers and effects. Buffs such as Stormcaller would not affect her unit, as they have a direct effect on her unit, even though it is not the target. Buffs such as Hammerhand do work on her, as they don't change anything her unit is doing (no modifiers to her unit).

[Necron_Lord]

Adding a PS to demonstrate that you're wrong about something else doesn't help your case, Necron Lord. ;)

Lady Malys is immune to Psychic Powers and effects. Buffs such as Stormcaller would not affect her unit, as they have a direct effect on her unit, even though it is not the target. Buffs such as Hammerhand do work on her, as they don't change anything her unit is doing (no modifiers to her unit).

Now that I've got a 5e army, I'm going to want to give playing tournaments a go, so I am going to have to get a better grasp of the rules than for casual play. I was thinking of a scenario where GK can do hammerhand with force weapons against Grotesques, for instance. Would Lady Malys be a counter to unit buffing to instant death the grotesques? Sanguine Sword would be another nasty buff against that unit. So, basically you are saying that the Crystal Heart works against powers targeting her and/or her unit, and area affect powers, but not buffs used by units to attack her and any squad she is attached to, no? I was wondering where the dividing line is. So psychic shooting attacks, area affects and powers like doom and null zone are negated, but powers like sanguine sword, hammerhand, guide, etc. are not? Is this the consensus?

[memnarch_129]

Yes thats the consensus. The biggest problem is the deffinition of effect and affect. Spells such as Hammerhand, Warptime, and Force Weapons effect the model/unit that is using the power. The end result affects the models they are attacking. You are correct that psychic shooting attacks, and area of EFFECT powers are affected if they target or land partially over top of Lady Malys and her squad. After rereading the Crystal Heart you wouldnt stop the power or AOE, Lady Malys and her squad are simply immune to it. So if a psychic AOE hit her squad and a squad of Warriors the Warriors are still effected. Your example of Hammerhand and Force Weapon against Lady Malys in a squad of Grotesques, the Grotesgues would be suceptible to being wounded on a 4+ and any wounds inflicted would cause Instant Death (assuming that the GK play has a IC in the squad with Psychic Mastery Lv.2).

[Necron_Lord]

Methinks I've got it now. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

[DarkLink]

GW should take a hint from Privateer press and define the target of each power. It would make this issue perfectly clear.

[BuFFo]

I play Lady Malys and her squad being immune to the effects of psychic powers so that she couldn't be instantly killed by a force weapon at all.

But I do agree, the wording is pretty crap in 40k when it comes to stuff like this.

[Necron_Lord]

I play Lady Malys and her squad being immune to the effects of psychic powers so that she couldn't be instantly killed by a force weapon at all.

But I do agree, the wording is pretty crap in 40k when it comes to stuff like this.

I agree, force weapons allow a psyker to use a psychic power to inflict instant death on a model which it inflicted an unsaved wound upon, so the crystal heart would negate that. Nemesis force weapons affect the wargear of GK's, so the crystal heart would not in that case.

Funny how the rule to cut down on the nuissance of making psychic tests individually allows them to negate anti-psych wargear when fluffwise they are exactly the same as force weapons (except for the forceweapon variants like falchions, etc.).

[davel]

heres one that occured to me that was not FAQed
what exactly happens if you put her leading a quin squad with a shadow seer?

dave l

[Necron_Lord]

heres one that occured to me that was not FAQed
what exactly happens if you put her leading a quin squad with a shadow seer?

dave l

Veil of Tears wouldn't work, I suppose, so don't take the Shadow Seer or deploy Lady Malys with a unit other than Harlquins with a Shadow Seer.

[Dark Severen]

Veil of Tears wouldn't work, I suppose, so don't take the Shadow Seer or deploy Lady Malys with a unit other than Harlquins with a Shadow Seer.

I'd have to disagree with this. This is a tricky 'down to interpretation' of the rules, however so lets not go into lengthy debates on whether or not Veil is nullified by Malys as I do appreciate some of you will disagree with my interpretation of Veil and Malys...

So, as I interperate the wording of the rule for Veil, the Shadowseer causes effects ON the enemy unit - I don't see it as a 'bubble' effecting the friendly Harlequins. This then leads to very strange effects if your opponent is Eldar and fields Harlequins with a Shadoweer!

So, my final thought would be: Until an official FAQ comes out, it's down to (as usual) coming to an agreement with your opponent/s how you feel Veil and Malys works.

I fall under the Veil and Malys works fine camp and I do intend to put that specifically into a house rule for my gaming group (normally something I don't like doing as I think house rules shouldn't be specific to one army) but if it prevents arguments from what should be a 'fun game', then all the better. :)

Apologies for going slightly off-topic.