Mordrak, Ghost Knights, and Psychic Powers

[SonicPara]

I was looking at Mordrak and his Ghost Knights' entries again and something caught my eye. Mordrak is a Psyker Level 1 and the Ghost Knights have the Brootherhood of Psykers rule. Mordrak has Hammerhand (+1 S) and Psychic Communion (+/-1 to reserve rolls) while the Knights have Hammerhand as well. The issue is that Mordrak is not an independent character, he is a lone character a-la Mephiston but can buy Ghost Knights as a retinue of sorts. Since he is part of the unit of Ghost Knights he is subject to the unit's test for Hammerhand/Force Weapons but does this count as his power that he is granted at Psyker Level 1? Or can Mordrak do Psychic Communion at the start of the turn and then the unit of Knights (with Mordrak included) either do Hammerhand or their Force Weapon activation?

Also, do Nemesis Force Weapons count as power weapons? Since they are on Terminators I assumed that they were (what Terminator doesn't come with a power weapon?) but looking through the codex I don't see any clarification.

[memnarch_129]

pg. 50 under Force Weapons

Force Weapons are potent psychic weapons used exclusively by trained psykers. They have the same effecrs as power weapons.

All Force Weapons are power weapons regardless of whether or not you activate the Force Weapon ability in that turn. So with Grey Knights not only are your Terminators armed with PWs but every single Grey Knight ( Strike Squad, Purifiers, Interceptors, and Purgation Squads) has a Power Weapon.

As for the Modrak issue Im pretty sure that he can only use one power and its with his squad. The reason that Modrak has a PM level is if he doesnt have any squad members he can still use hispsychic powers. So if you have Modrak and 4 ghost knights you can either A) use Psychic Communion B) cast Hammerhand or C) make a psychic test to activate the units Force Weapons.

[SonicPara]

Thanks for the clarification on the Force Weapons.


Really? Oh man thats rough. I guess its only 1-wound models that he will be assaulting until the Stormraven shows up.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, Mordrack is not an IC so his power is also the squad's.

Don't not assault a unit because you might not have the FW power available, though. GKs aren't exactly pushovers in CC, force weapons or no. You don't need a force weapon to kill multi-wound models.

[memnarch_129]

Your welcome. And what Ive found from going through reading the codex and building lists is that you mostly wont be needing both Hammerhand and Force Weapons at the same time. You use each one of them under specific situations.

T4 W1 = you use HH as the model only has one wound and you wound on a 3+

T5 W1 = same as before its only a one wound model

T4 Wx = activate Force Weapons cause you wound on a 4+

T5 Wx = since there is likely to be few models in that unit use Force Weapons. As a single succesful wound
will result in a dead model regardless of the number of wounds.

T6 Wx = once again you use Force Weapons as a single wound will kill the model (ex. 5 GKSS attack a
Carnifex, roll to hits and wounds, 1 wound they make a psychic test and if successful kill the
Carnifex outright)

T6> = Use Force Weapons as odds are you should get a 6 to wound in their somewhere and if it fails its
Invum save you kill it outright (only thing you cant wound is toughness 8, and if your assaulting a T8
with basic guys somthing has gone horribly wrong)

[SonicPara]

Your welcome. And what Ive found from going through reading the codex and building lists is that you mostly wont be needing both Hammerhand and Force Weapons at the same time. You use each one of them under specific situations.

T4 W1 = you use HH as the model only has one wound and you wound on a 3+

T5 W1 = same as before its only a one wound model

T4 Wx = activate Force Weapons cause you wound on a 4+

T5 Wx = since there is likely to be few models in that unit use Force Weapons. As a single succesful wound
will result in a dead model regardless of the number of wounds.

T6 Wx = once again you use Force Weapons as a single wound will kill the model (ex. 5 GKSS attack a
Carnifex, roll to hits and wounds, 1 wound they make a psychic test and if successful kill the
Carnifex outright)

T6> = Use Force Weapons as odds are you should get a 6 to wound in their somewhere and if it fails its
Invum save you kill it outright (only thing you cant wound is toughness 8, and if your assaulting a T8
with basic guys somthing has gone horribly wrong)

Thats a very helpful breakdown, thanks for that. As for the last one I'm gonna have the Dreadknight go toe-to-toe with anything that nasty, lol.

My main concern with psychic powers for Mordrak was Psychic Communion vs Hammerhand/Force Weapons but now that Stormraven's have small blast missiles, reserving them is less effective so I may not have to worry about it at all.

I do have a quick question to add though, the Brotherhood Banner. In Mordrak's unit with 4 Ghost Knights at the start, is it really worth 25 points? It trades 3 attacks for +4 an auto-passing the force weapon test if they try it and it gets better with each materializing Ghost Knight but if the unit is whittled down, it becomes a pointless and costly upgrade. Seems like a gamble between taking it or a Halberd.

[memnarch_129]

The BB being worth it or not depends on the unit and who you talk to. The guy taking the banner can still attack, they are just not Force Weapon/power weapon attacks. So a 4 Ghost Knight unit will end up with 3 base attacks each and 4 on the charge ( 12 Force Weapon, and 4 regular ones). If you have the points and wanting to get the most attacks Id also get a Librarian with Quicksilver to join the squad. The squad takes BB and the other three take Nemesis Falchions. With the Librarian using Quicksilver you end up with 18 Falchion attacks at I10 (thats not counting the BB guy, the Librarian, or Mordrak).

[DarkLink]

The banner probably isn't worth it on a 5-man squad. I'd say 7+ guys is where it starts to get really good, and at 10 guys I'd auto-include if I had the points.

[Lerra]

One potential problem with the banner is that it gives your opponent a bit of an advantage for wound allocation. Against 10 space marines, if you do 10 power weapon wounds, you'll wipe the squad. But if you do 8 power weapon wounds and 2 regular wounds (or even 18 PW wounds and 2 regular wounds), it means that there will probably be survivor(s), which means the powerfist gets to swing.

I wouldn't buy the banner unless I had a full squad for that reason.

[DarkLink]

Then take all halberds and daemonhammers, then.