Product Review: Do NOT buy the DE Succubus

[Necron2.0]

I just received the new Succubus figure. Assuming that the blister I got was not defective, the figure is a waste of money. The figure's only options are an agonizer and an impaler - no shardnet, no close combat weapon, no splinter pistol, and nothing else. Worse yet, if you were interested in using the agonizer, it's on the wrong arm with respect to all the other Dark Eldar bits, which means to get either a blaster or a splinter pistol with it will require MASSIVE modification. From the perspective of the game, the figure is nonsensical crap. The image shows you exactly what you get, which isn't generally something someone would field:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Succubus.jpg

[jorz192]

And it's metal. I'd rather convert a plastic wych to look more intimidating than shell out the money for a metal model.

[lattd]

Erm you do realise DE can mix and match so you can take the weapons you want from the wych's sprue and put them on the model just like the Archon.

[Connjurus]

Erm you do realise DE can mix and match so you can take the weapons you want from the wych's sprue and put them on the model just like the Archon.

That's what I do. I actually like the body of the model - I'd give it different arms from the Wych sprue.

[Sonofthelion]

I agree with what both lattd and Connjurus have said. though it would have been nice to have had more options in the blister there are so many bits that could be used with the model that it is not without value.

[DrLove42]

I got this model

And i'm enjoying it. Its a very nice kit, especially compared to a lot of other metal figures...(outside the DE range)

My only complaint is the upper chest area (above the boobs) is kinda cluttered and can be hard to make out whats what when painting it

Also I think the wargear shes carrying is perfect for a Succubus. Do you complain the Archon kit is rubbish because it "only" comes with a soul trap and a huskblade?

[Necron2.0]

The problem is, in this case the bits aren't compatible. The most popular configurations of the Succubus (at least as I've observed) are either with a blaster and maybe an agonizer, or else vanilla with no modification (that's a CC weapon and a splinter pistol). To build either one, you'll need a box of Wyches (generally) so you can replace BOTH arms. Even if you planned on using an agonizer, you'd be better off discarding the one that comes with the figure and using the plastic bits, because the plastic bits aren't compatible with the metal agonizer arm in this case. Now, one metal succubus costs the same as six plastic Wyches. If you're basically forced into buying a box of Wyches anyway, economically speaking you'd be better off just converting one Wych into a Succubus and selling the remaining Wych bits on Ebay. Therefore, the figure is rubbish and not worth buying.

As for the Archon, I don't use Archons, but that figure at least is somewhat useful. If I were to bring in an Archon, I probably would want either a soul trap or a husk blade. Additionally, the heads for the Archon are unique. In the case of the Succubus, there is absolutely nothing that truly distinguishes it from a Wych.

[Connjurus]

Your argument has one hole:

Why bring a Succubus unless you're playing a Wych Cult? You should already have Wyches if you're getting a Succubus, there's really no point in taking one on her own.

[Necron2.0]

Your argument has one hole:

Why bring a Succubus unless you're playing a Wych Cult? You should already have Wyches if you're getting a Succubus, there's really no point in taking one on her own.

And the obvious hole with this argument is if you're playing a Wych Cult, you're not likely to need an additional Succubus figure at all. The Wych box has 10 figures. A raider holds 10 figures. Two Venoms hold 10 figures. A full Wych unit on foot is 15 figures. So, either you've already got all the figures you need, or else you've got spare Wyches to convert to Succubi. Either way, the metal Succubus figure is unnecessary.

[Connjurus]

And the obvious hole with this argument is if you're playing a Wych Cult, you're not likely to need an additional Succubus figure at all. The Wych box has 10 figures. A raider holds 10 figures. Two Venoms hold 10 figures. A full Wych unit on foot is 15 figures. So, either you've already got all the figures you need, or else you've got spare Wyches to convert to Succubi. Either way, the metal Succubus figure is unnecessary.



Unless, of course, you like the look of the model. ;)

[Necron2.0]

Unless, of course, you like the look of the model. ;)

Yes, agreed. I was going to follow up on that. If you just like the figure, of course there's no reason you shouldn't buy it. From my perspective, however, it's not markedly different from a plastic Wych, so I could not justify the cost.

[BuFFo]

Wow, so the model is literally as worthless as the rules attached to it.

how fitting.

[Drew da Destroya]

lol. I think the model looks cool, but I'd never use one in-game. Maybe as a more unique Hekatrix.

I wish they had allowed her to take a Bike or something. That would've made her a bit unique, at least.

[Uncle Nutsy]

looks like a man with melons.

[wkz]

Wait, so basically "model is useless/worthless/crap unless used for conversions"?

Wow, GW marketing for the modelling aspect of the hobby rather than the gaming aspect of the hobby? I guess we're all seeing different values based on which angle we're looking at the Succubus...

But fair warning is fair. I guess I'll not get my own Succubus if I ever start DE.

[JxKxR]

looks like a man with melons.

Yeah, she's freaking buff.

[daboarder]

Necron 2.0 are you new to the hobby? why is it a major problem if she holds the agoniser in the right hand, thats one of the things that makes the mini stand out from the bog standard unit leaders. Further more its a metal model, that would have been planned ages ago, expecting GW to predict the favoured load out of player ahead of time is folly. As for requiring "conversion work" thats a core part of the hobby, you claim you have been ripped off, I state that you have failed to pay attention to the product description.

[Mystery.Shadow]

Some people buy models because they are nice. Some people enjoy painting.

Just ask anyone who has actually purchased a Tyranid Pyrovore!

[Gir]

Some people buy models because they are nice. Some people enjoy painting.

Just ask anyone who has actually purchased a Tyranid Pyrovore!

To be fair, Pyrovores are pretty useful in planetstrike.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Agreed. I do like the look of the model + it's not an Agoniser :L, it's an electrocorrosive whip (I remember reading it on the GW's site)


Wow, so the model is literally as worthless as the rules attached to it.

how fitting.

Well they're is always the fact that she can kill a Nightbringer? (well when armed with a Venom Blade, the best weapon in 40k for how cheap it is). Granted the Nightbringer could push her away with his annoing special rule, but the player may not do that, as he may see the Succubus as too minor to do anything to his precious Nightbringer... But yeah i'd use my Succubus against big enemies with high toughness but low(ish) save. I.E Ork Warbosses (with out Mega Armour), Orgyrns, Carnifex's (Granted thats a risk, but you never know), and any other big beasties... Hitting on 3+ (generally) and Wounding on 2+, with 6 Attacks on the Charge (7 if you role an extra attack on the Combat Drugs, or Re-Roll to wound? The others aren't so helpful in this situation, but hey you win some you loose some :D)

[Lockark]

You realize by that logic, all the metal HQ models are "crap" because you can just convert them.

The point is you buy it and convert it to be what you want because you want something that looks cool and stands out.

Any argument about her not looking that different from a wytch is invalid. Space marine captain are just dudes in power Armour with capes anyway.

:rolleyes:

Anyone with eyes can see that modles's equipment so they know that there buying. Not many metal models come with options. It's kinda a rarity. The dark Eldar models are really good about options, and being able to esaily swap weapon arms with the plastic kits.



Necron 2.0 are you new to the hobby? why is it a major problem if she holds the agoniser in the right hand, thats one of the things that makes the mini stand out from the bog standard unit leaders. Further more its a metal model, that would have been planned ages ago, expecting GW to predict the favoured load out of player ahead of time is folly. As for requiring "conversion work" thats a core part of the hobby, you claim you have been ripped off, I state that you have failed to pay attention to the product description.


^- This? That isn't even converting. The weapon arms are swappable.

Tell me about converting AFTER you've spent hours sawing and drilling metal to convert the perfect load out. You know. Back when metal models were one piece.

=|

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Put the model together, tell your opponent 'She has 'X' and 'Y' - job done. If it's a stupid 'WYSIWYG' tournament, tell them to stop being such beardy, fun-spoiling bed wetters and just use it anyway.

[Necron2.0]

why is it a major problem if she holds the agoniser in the right hand

Because there are no pistol bits that are made for her left hand. So, you either throw away the piece she comes with, you heavily modify a right hand bit into a left hand bit, or you take her as she's presented which is a configuration I've never seen anyone play.


...it's not an Agoniser :L, it's an electrocorrosive whip

According to the fluff, it's either. I used "Agoniser" to describe it because I've never seen anyone take an electro-corrosive whip.


You realize by that logic, all the metal HQ models are "crap" because you can just convert them.

It is not a question of "if you can." The problem is "you MUST." The model as given comes in a configuration I've never seen anyone play, and one that doesn't conform to even the most basic description of a Succubus.


Any argument about her not looking that different from a wytch is invalid. Space marine captain are just dudes in power Armour with capes anyway.

Specious argument. Space marine captains look like captains. The Succubus looks like a Wych. With the same degree of modification that I'd need to put into the metal Succubus, I could create a better, more stunning Succubus out of the plastic bits (and I'd do it for cheaper, which IS the point). Moreover, I've never encountered a space marine character figure that I couldn't field WYSIWYG straight from the blister, without extensive conversion.


Anyone with eyes can see that modles's equipment so they know that there buying. Not many metal models come with options. It's kinda a rarity.

Another specious argument. The Canoness comes with two options of guns, two options for CCW and two options for equipment. The Necron Destroyer lord comes with two options of hands and two options of weapon. Lelith comes with two options for weapons. Most everything else comes equipped per their base description.


Put the model together, tell your opponent 'She has 'X' and 'Y' - job done. If it's a stupid 'WYSIWYG' tournament, tell them to stop being such beardy, fun-spoiling bed wetters and just use it anyway.

Yeah ... I'm sure that would work.

[eldargal]

Someone told me I couldn't field my archon as a succubus because she had heavier armour on. I told him either I fielded her as a succubus or I nailed his test-icles to the wall. Problem solved.

I have to admit I am curious as to why she was given an impaler and ECW/Agoniser which is not a legal choice. Also what are the five components, as listd on the GW website in the blister? Body, two arms and two heads? I've not bought mine yet.

[Necron2.0]

Someone told me I couldn't field my archon as a succubus because she had heavier armour on. I told him either I fielded her as a succubus or I nailed his test-icles to the wall. Problem solved.

I think I'm in love (don't tell my wife). ;)


I have to admit I am curious as to why she was given an impaler and ECW/Agoniser which is not a legal choice.

The actual GW description called it a power glaive, not an impaler. I probably mispoke in calling it an impaler.


Also what are the five components, as listd on the GW website in the blister? Body, two arms and two heads? I've not bought mine yet.

Almost. The pieces are body, one head, two arms and a trophy rack. The plastic trophy rack bit actually looks better than the one that comes in the Succubus, so that's another piece you might want to replace.

[eldargal]

Damned thing looks like an Impaler, and a power glaive isn't even an equipment choice as far as I can remember.:rolleyes:

What you could do is replace both arms, stick on regular Wych arms and use the two metal ones from the succubus kit to customise other models. for example, an Agoniser on a Reaver champion and the impaler/power glaive on a wych with a convertd shardnet. I do like the body of he succubus (haw) and her head is so much nicer than the GW picture. I've seen a friends painted up and her hairline doesn't look so high. Reason enough to buy it in my opinion but I fully agree the equipment choice and the left/righ arm/weapon thing is a bit odd.

[Lockark]

Specious argument. Space marine captains look like captains. The Succubus looks like a Wych. With the same degree of modification that I'd need to put into the metal Succubus, I could create a better, more stunning Succubus out of the plastic bits (and I'd do it for cheaper, which IS the point). Moreover, I've never encountered a space marine character figure that I couldn't field WYSIWYG straight from the blister, without extensive conversion.


I've converted 2 Chaos Sors and a chaos lord in power Armour, using mostly a CSM box and some Warriors of chaos bits. I could easily do something similar to convert Space Marine Captains. Dose that mean the plastic Space marine Commander and Chaos Lord are crap? Not to mention all the metal models of Space Marine Captains and Chaos Lords?

Both of thows HQ can be converted cheaper then buying there boxs. I guess there not worth ****.


As for having to kit-bash to get the gear you want. Extensive Conversion? EXTENSIVE CONVERSTION? How is glueing a diffrent arms extentive conversions?!?!?!?!? Your just kitbashing on the left over bits from your wytch! Have you EVER "extensively converted" something?

Also you can field it WYSIWYG straight from the blister. It's a Succubus with CC weapon and Electrocrosive Whip!




Another specious argument. The Canoness comes with two options of guns, two options for CCW and two options for equipment. The Necron Destroyer lord comes with two options of hands and two options of weapon. Lelith comes with two options for weapons. Most everything else comes equipped per their base description.




That's nice. Tell that to my Steel Legion Guard who I had to convert to have melta guns. ONE PIECE METALS. There are no steel Legion Melta Gunner modles. Guess what I had to do? I had to dremal and saw out the other weapons, to put in the metal guns.


I also didn't flip my **** when I bought my Chaos Raptors and I had to swap there plasma pistol for a Plastic Bolt Pistol, and post on a message board "HOW DARE GW GIVE ME A PLASMA PISTOL! DON'T THEY KNOW THAT IS ****TY EQUIPMENT TO GIVE A RAPTOR? Who would ever give there raptors plasma pistols?!?!?!?!?1"



It's so silly to call this modle ****, because it did not give you the exact equipment you wanted. It's better then most, being compatible with the rest of the Dark Eldar Plastics with out any real converting.

[Necron2.0]

Damned thing looks like an Impaler, and a power glaive isn't even an equipment choice as far as I can remember.:rolleyes:

Well, in all fairness there isn't really anything in their arsenal called a "glaive" (I'm discounting the Hellglaive, which is a unique weapon type). So, this is probably just a power weapon option.


What you could do is replace both arms, stick on regular Wych arms and use the two metal ones from the succubus kit to customise other models. for example, an Agoniser on a Reaver champion and the impaler/power glaive on a wych with a convertd shardnet. I do like the body of he succubus (haw) and her head is so much nicer than the GW picture. I've seen a friends painted up and her hairline doesn't look so high. Reason enough to buy it in my opinion but I fully agree the equipment choice and the left/righ arm/weapon thing is a bit odd.

Oh sure, if I had any plans of making those other units, then maybe I could use her arm pieces someplace else. What I'd probably end up doing is modifying her glaive into a hellglaive (because some of Hellion bits are just goofy as hell). I have no use at all for her agonizer, although I could probably cut the whip portion off and glue on the business part of a splinter pistol or blaster.

Of course, the point I made is I could do all this with a plastic Wych and end up with a model that looks just as good, if not better, at a fifth of the cost no less. A number of people I've talked to have raved on how wonderful it looks. For most other character models I would agree. The Archon looks far better than a normal Kabalite. Gabriel Seth is much more impressive as compared to a normal marine. For me, however, the metal Succubus is ... a Wych. It looks like all the Wych figures I have. It's in a different pose, but at the end of the day, it's just another Wych. That's how it looks to me, at any rate.

Now, if anyone sees something there that excites them, as I've said before ... go out, buy it, love it, enjoy. For those who haven't seen it, who might be buying on-line and who are familiar with the Archon and Lelith and may be assuming it has options like those models ... it doesn't. It has no options at all. For those people, if it doesn't grab you as it is, you might be better off converting a plastic Wych.

[soupcat]

Call me crazy but didn't the previous codex state that literally any CC wep could be an agonizer?
Also couldn't you run her as agonizer + cc wep? If the conversion is that big of a deal for you the lost of a single pistol in a unit that will most likely be fleeting anyways not that big of a deal?
I sorta understand were your coming from but to me it sounds like "those monsters! They added a agonizer bit for use in the other hand! How dare they add options!"

[Necron2.0]

Call me crazy ...

Ok, you're crazy. :p

Go back and read what I've said. This issue is about economics, and whether or not the figure is worth converting, not what hoops I could jump through to convert it.

[Lockark]

Whao.... Getting abit Rude aren't we?

I've read everything you said, and he was responding to your points. He was quite polite about it to. Then you just sort of brushed him off and pretended you actually read his post. If your not going to read his post, then don't pretend you read it.

=|

[Melissia]

I should go buy a succubus just out of spite now.

[Necron2.0]

<*sigh*>

Unfortunately in most on-line communities, the lack of a sense of humor usually comes in a close second to failed reading comprehension. No doubt now someone will piece together a bunch of short snippets of words I've written, taken COMPLETELY out of context, to emphasis points I did not make.

[Demonus]

thats one ugly chick

[jumai]

dear GW
please add the following label to all coffee cups model kits

"WARNING
contents may be exactly as advertised"

[eldargal]

It's actually quite a nice model, provided you give it a decent paintjob, unlike the GW model which has highlighting on the face which makes the hairline look much higer than it is. I've not bought one yet though, just seen a couple belonging to friends.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Jam Doughnuts.

But on a serious note... This thread should be named something diffrent, as it's just opinion not something specifically wrong (I.E lots of broken parts... Or something else? I dunno). Does that makes sense (proably not but ahh well :L)

[BuFFo]

Well they're is always the fact that she can kill a Nightbringer? (well when armed with a Venom Blade, the best weapon in 40k for how cheap it is).

That is a very misleading statement. Sure she CAN kill the nightbringer. She CAN kill any non vehicle model in the game. but can she do so reliably? Hells no. The Nightbringer kills her in a single hit, no saves. Dead.

Sorry to say, your example fails big time. The Succubuss will never kill a Nightbringer unless the two moons align over Jupiter.


But yeah i'd use my Succubus against big enemies with high toughness but low(ish) save. I.E Ork Warbosses (with out Mega Armour), Orgyrns, Carnifex's (Granted thats a risk, but you never know), and any other big beasties...

The Archon does the same job at only 5 points more. More importantly, the Archon can get a Shadowfield, which is basically the only reason to take DE HQ's into HtH combat in the first place.


Hitting on 3+ (generally) and Wounding on 2+, with 6 Attacks on the Charge (7 if you role an extra attack on the Combat Drugs, or Re-Roll to wound? The others aren't so helpful in this situation, but hey you win some you loose some :D)

Once again, the Archon can do the same thing, but actually survive being hit by a power fist.

The Succubus is sub par in every regard, and her metla model has no options, which is fail in this age of gaming. GW should be ashamed for not sticking a plastic sprue with her with some weapons. But wiat, you couldn't even USE the sprue as her weapon arms hold the weapons in the "wrong hand" anyway.

Fail model. Fail rules.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

I've killed a Nightbringer... You don't need high rolls to kill it :L (and so it's not that difficult). I am not denying the fact that she will die I am saying she is less points for a good killer. Thats all, I take a Archon and a Succubus together and a decent Archon will always be more expensive to be just as good (lack of basic Invunerable save). Not saying an Archons not any better, I am saying for 70 points (with Venom blade) she is most defently worth it. Btw the "wrong hand" thing is just a minor inconveniance and for Hellion conversions it is most defently the "right hand". Again sorry for Grammar and spelling

[eldargal]

I have to disagree BuFFington, I've found the Succubus to be an excellent HQ in smaller games and a good secondary choice in larger games. As fantastic as the Shadowfield is enough saved on it and you will fail it, you can' fail the Succubus' dodge save though. Of course, you need to keep in her in close combat as much as possible which can be difficult sometimes.

[DarkLink]

Wow, you can never fail a save with your Succubus! That's really lucky of you! Did you learn that from the Citadel dice rolling book? :p;)


you can' fail the Succubus' dodge save though

[Necron2.0]

Wow, you can never fail a save with your Succubus! That's really lucky of you! Did you learn that from the Citadel dice rolling book? :p;)

Based on the typos, I'm sure Eldargal must have been exhausted when she wrote that - that's not her norm. I'm sure what she was referring to was the shadowfield's annoying habit of failing you just when you need it most. As you may know, the shadowfield imparts a 2+ invulnerable save, but if you ever role a one, not only does the model take a wound but the shadowfield also fails and the model gets only its normal armor save from then on (which is usually 5+). You'd think a shadowfield failure would be a rare occurrence, but my experience is it happens with annoying frequency. However, the succubus gets a 4+ invulnerable save in close combat, which cannot be lost. Of course, when she's not in close combat the succubus is essentially bare-buns naked. A couple guardsmen with flashlights could take her out with almost laughable ease (so much for the Eldar superiority).

[BuFFo]

Cool!

The model still sucks and her rules are still terrible when compared to the Archon.

[thecactusman17]

I am really liking everything I see about this model, though in fairness I do not have one in my hands and would never field it as a Succubus.

Hint hint: the "Power Glaive" is pretty clearly intended as a stand-in for Lady Malys' daemon weapon during normal games. Also, it would be an EXCELLENT bit for a Baron Sathonyx build!

A Syren using this kit would be a great option too! Just toss on a suitably nasty CC weapon on the left arm, preferably something that looks like it could be thrown. Or keep the Glaive as a special agonizer, give the Agonizer bit to a cool off-hand model conversion elsewhere.

Anybody arguing against stuff like this is a person who is not worth playing against. I can think of no TO who would give you crap over this model so long as it looked suitably cool.

[eldargal]

Yes, sorry I mean't you can't lose your Succubus' save. It was half past two or so in the morning when I wrote that.:p

I've had games where my tooled up Archoness has failed her shadowfield save in CC with guardsman and been pistol whipped to death by them while my Succubus with Agoniser has munched through squad after squad. I just can't agree she is useless or 'sucks'.

As for the model, try and see it in person with a good paintjob before making a decision one way or the other.

[jorz192]

Off topic, but I like the duke because he has the shadowfield, ghost plate armor, blast pistol, better venom blades, and combat drugs. Combined with his special rules I'm pretty sure he's a better buy for the points even if he has one less leadership, WS and BS.

I really hope they make a model for him if there is another DE wave.

[fala]

Jeez, guys! I've just had to register on this forum only to throw in my 5 cents, because you are so wrong about her.

This is like the new version of old Archite model, the chick (or a punk girl) with the staff.
She is holding an Agoniser portrayed as on the very picture on page 57 of the codex and that spear is just a regular close combat weapon, as in her wargear description. From the moment I saw the picture I knew I had to buy her.

I'm using her in my WWP lists and run her with Incubi or just Wyches from the portal. It's like Boom! Headshot. 6 attacks with I 8 and WS 8 for 90pts. turnes the tides of battles for me so far, while her squad can sit and watch or go kill something else. I take her with just Haywires and Agoniser, so the miniature is perfect for me.
Maybe she isn't as good as Lelith from The Old Codex (while she is still far better/cheaper than the new one), but hey - at least she can use drugs.
True, she is harder to use than the Archon, but if you leave him alone in the field, he will get blasted also.