Iron Warriors?

[tylerparker]

hey guys I am pretty new at this but my friend has convinced me to get into 40k and he gave me some of his old codexs so that i could read up and and get an army i really like so i have a few questions. I like night lords and iron warriors and would like to start them so i bout some chaos space marine troops and talked to my buddy again and he said that the blood angels codex would represent the nightlords better and that i should probably look for another codex iron warriors like the regular space marines codex or space wolves. is that true? i was just hopping to get yalls input

[wkz]

Check out BOLS's front page, it has a nice article on "Count-as" (vs the very much hated "Proxying"). Go on, read that. We'll wait :D

[wittdooley]

No one is going to begrudge you for running a Counts As Blood Angels Night Lords army. Not a single person. If you read Aaron Dembski Bowden's Night Lords books, you'll also see there are plenty of Night Lords that aren't afflicted by any Chaos Gods..

So yeah, Go for Night Lords.

[JxKxR]

Blood Angels= Night lords, Space Marines= Iron Warriors, or Space wolves, but to represent the Iron warriors I would go with Codex Space Marines.

[wkz]

Done reading that BOLS article? Welcome back.

Now, the sad truth is the C:CSM (that's net-speak for Codex:Chaos Space Marines) is a poor poor shadow of itself: it is still quite a good 4th edition codex, just that it suffers from 2 major problems:
- 4th edition codexes cannot compare to 5th edition codexes, especially with all the "power-ramping" 5th edition brings to the table.
- The main reason for your friend's comment: The current C:CSM just cannot re-create all the cool "legion" stuff properly, unlike its 3rd edition brethren. You can get some units in the proper marks of chaos... but you just cannot get the feel of the "proper" Chaos Legions set up correctly using that book (some people have even suggested that 4th edition C:CSM should be renamed C:Renegades/Black Legion)

So, the only fall back you have now is a "Count-as" army. Here's the thing:

Night lords' main claim to fame is simple: Batman in Space!! They utilize the "fear for good" concept, and their fall into Chaos is mainly because of ideology differences with the emerging Imperium. The legion's tactics emphasize on propaganda attacks (FEAR ME!!) and hit-and-run tactics, especially with jumppacks.

The closest equivalent Codex is: C:BA (Codex Blood Angel). One major point C:BA brings to the table is the fact Jumppacks counts as troops, and this fits into the jumppack heavy Legion such as Night Lords. Not to mention there's a Named character in C:BA who has the ability to "degrade" an enemy IC right at the start (Fear at work!!).

Other possibilities include... erm... ... I don't know. Guys, help me out?


Onto the next choice:
Iron Warriors tend to love their heavy weapons. They really, really LOVE their heavy weapons. If at all possible, they'll simply build a wall, camp behind those, and lob heavy ordnance at the opponent all day long. But if they really have to move out and engage the enemy, they'll bring their Landraiders, Vindicators, Basilisks, Terminators and their Devastators (and after their fall, their Obliterators and Chaos Defilers), and inch upwards while STILL lobbing shells at the opponent.

The closest equivalent Codex is... well there isn't, depending on what exactly you want your Iron Warriors to do. But there are 4 big choices IMO:

C:CSM can make Iron Warriors surprisingly well: Take 3 groups of 3 Obliterators (terminators with in-built heavy weapons), and take their cheap Terminators. Load up on some Mark of "Undecided" squads of tacticals with heavy weapons, and you have yourself a good core for Iron Warriors. And there are also Vindicators, Landraiders and Defilers... but those will take slots away from Obliterators, so its a tough choice you'll have to make

C:SM (Space Marines) can bring to the table Techmarines with heavy weapons (conversion beamers and Thunderfire cannons). Also, C:SM Techmarines can buff up a ruin into something with a better cover save, something very fitting for Iron Warriors. AND if you select the correct ICs, you can fire one Lance strike from orbit! All the rest is just cookie-cutter stuff available in other Marine codexes (Terminators, Vindicators, Whirlwinds, Devastators, Land Raiders), but still relevant.

C:SW (Space Wolves) can bring to the table the cheapest yet most loaded-to-bear "Devastator" Marine equivalent: Long fangs can load up to 5 heavies, and still be able to shoot 2 different targets per squad. Also, their veteran Wolf Guard can be built into surprisingly large Terminator squad (more expensive than other codex equivalents thou). Not to mention more Marine cookie-cutter stuff... but they have one big negative: they're sadly lacking in troop choice heavy weapons...

C: DA (Dark Angels) can bring the Deathwing... an all Terminator army.... and you can even mix the heavy weapons into Close-combat oriented Terminator squads. Otherwise, they're about similar to C:SM (without the techmarines and orbital strikes)


So here it is, my opinion. Hope this helps.

PS: Please don't proxy (using one model to play as another), at least not for too long. Veterans of this game tends to hate that for some reason....
...
Gah, ninja'ed

[Daemonette666]

I am thinking of writing up a background for a Word Bearer's Army - sort of word bearer's army. I took the article from the first edition "Lost and the Damned" and "Slaves to Darkness" where they mention the Sensei, The Star Child and the Illuminati . They mention that some of the Emperor's children (born of his own loins before he came to power), chose to not follow him after they found out what the Illuminati had planned for them at the fall of the Imperiium. They chose to follow Chaos and instead of the "Robin Hood" type warbands of Sensei warbands, they lead Chaos Warbands. These Fallen Sensei are known as "Grey Sensei"

The basis for my army is that Fabius Bile (or one of his clones) happens upon on rogue Sensei, and convinces him to agree to Fabius's plan. Together they help out a company size warband of Word Bearer Space Marines who have degenerated so far from their original puristic ideals that they agree to have their gene seed melded with the fallen Sensei's DNA through Fabius's genetic manipulation and powerful Chaos Sorcery he successfully creates the fist batch of new recruits from one of the Word Bearers harvest worlds and the recruits who survive the process gain powers and abilities similar to those of Grey Knights. This particular Word Bearer force has subjugated a Dark Mechanicus planet and as part of their tithe, the Dark Mechanicus who stole the Terminator and Poer Armour STC template when they fled have been making armour that matches and rival that of the GKs.

You can see where this is all going. But what of the GKs Psy weaponry and Force Weapons? Force Weapons are easy to create, and the Psycannon ammunition is created by desiccating and refining the bodies of captured Senseis who the Inquisition have captured/ of some of the Emperor's own tissue. The Inquisition are activity hunting the Sensei as they are freedom fighters on the worlds they inhabit.

How hard would it be for Fabius to get a Pint (600ml) of blood from a sensei now and then, and psychically imbue the bolter and autocannon ammunition with it. Capture a few tanks and vehicle from the battlefield and have the Dark Mechanicus reverse engineer the Assault cannon, the Landraider redeemer, and the Storm Raven, and you have a new Battle company who look similar and have similar weapons to the Grey Knights. Remember the Dark Mechanicus are not limited what they can do or experiment with like the Imperial Mechanicus.

Now before you say it, They are not Grey Knights. They are a Sensei/Word Bearer - hybrid gene spliced army with Dark Mechanicus using reverse technology to forge new equipment/ tanks, they use an old relic STC to create and hone/improve upon Power and Terminator armour/ Artificer Armour, and combat shields, etc.

It is very plausible, and even though it sounds far fetched, this is a sci-fi game, so who really cares. It allows me to run a GK based army list for Word Bearers Chaos Space Marines. I love it, and only one guy at my club hates the idea, but he is a purist Ultra Smurf player.

If you like the idea, use it your selves, and enjoy the taste of vindication as a GK codex based Chaos Army storms onto the field in an Apoc match on the side of Chaos Daemons.