GK Paladin Apothecary

[wittdooley]

So question:

While discussing this with my buddies, we came across the fact that, as written presently, the Paladin Apothecary is 130 points (55 for base model, 75 upgrade) Is that right?

Does anyone think that the Apothecary is supposed to be 75 points flat and that it may be FAQed, or am I severely undervaluing the point cost of the FNP USR, particularly when comparing it to a Sanguinary Priest that is 50 pts (essentially paying 25 points for the FNP USR).

Thoughts?

[Missinglink]

I think its the total cost. 55 for the Paladin and 75 for the upgrade. 130pts.

[Lemt]

So question:

While discussing this with my buddies, we came across the fact that, as written presently, the Paladin Apothecary is 130 points (55 for base model, 75 upgrade) Is that right?

Does anyone think that the Apothecary is supposed to be 75 points flat and that it may be FAQed, or am I severely undervaluing the point cost of the FNP USR, particularly when comparing it to a Sanguinary Priest that is 50 pts (essentially paying 25 points for the FNP USR).

Thoughts?

Sanguinary Priests take up a FoC slot, grant an extra KP, and can be singled out in CC. Apothecaries are an upgrade character, taking up no FoC slot, not granting extra KPs, and not being singled out in CC. That's why they're more expensive.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Sanguinary Priests take up a FoC slot, grant an extra KP, and can be singled out in CC. Apothecaries ar an upgrade character, taking up no FoC slot, not granting extra KPs, and not being singled out in CC. That's why they're more expensive.

This. You're not just paying for FNP. You're paying for a more secure version of FNP that adds extreme utility to an already massively powerful unit. One Codex's points cost is not equal to another's (compare BA Devastators to Vanilla Devastators).

So it's the massive 130pts.

[hisdudeness]

And don't forget this adds FNP to a bunch of 2W termies.

[WereWolf_nr]

130 pts.


FNP on a 5+ is different than
FNP on a 3+ is different than
FNP on a 2+

Each should have a different cost based on the units it is buffing.

[DarkLink]

It's an absurdly expensive upgrade. It's not like Paladins really care about small arms fire in the first place. I've yet to lose a Paladin to actual small arms fire.

Anything that actually threatens Paladins inherently ignores FNP. FNP would be nice, except for how crazy expensive it is. Even on a full 10-man unit, you can find somewhere else where those points are better spent.

[thecactusman17]

Wow. I remember wiping a whole squad of Grey Knight Terminators (older) recently, sure half of them died to dark lance spam and he was out of cover due to bad DS, but the other half died to massed pie-plates just like everything else.

Bet he would have liked FNP!

[WillyRapier]

So question:

While discussing this with my buddies, we came across the fact that, as written presently, the Paladin Apothecary is 130 points (55 for base model, 75 upgrade) Is that right?

Does anyone think that the Apothecary is supposed to be 75 points flat and that it may be FAQed, or am I severely undervaluing the point cost of the FNP USR, particularly when comparing it to a Sanguinary Priest that is 50 pts (essentially paying 25 points for the FNP USR).

Thoughts?

This is the same for Eldar Aspect Warriors: Exarchs are +12 points, so you still have to pay the 16pts for the aspect warrior in the first place; the exarch becomes 28 pts. (granted, much less than the 130, but then EAW dont have FNP, 2 wounds, termie armour...the list goes on)

It's an established standard for army list writing; Apothecary is an upgrade for one brother, so you still have to pay for the brother in the first place.

[DrLove42]

The important thing to remember here...you're paying for FNP on the Paladin squad. If it wasn't an additional 75pts, you'd be paying 20points to give FNP to 10 2W Terminators.
That would be the best bang for buck upgrade in the entire game.

[DarkLink]

20 points to buy a model within a unit FNP? Really? That's a horrible price. Paladins get +1W and WS 5 and Holocaust for 15pts over normal Terminators, and that's far better than FNP.

By your logic, Plague Marines should cost 40pts.



Bet he would have liked FNP!

On one wound guys, sure. But when you've got 2 wound terminators with wound allocation shenanigans, there's little need. Normally you can just allocate the wounds in such a way that he wouldn't have lost a guy to them, unless you cause roughly 12 saves per model.

Plus, using anecdotal evidence is poor logic. Yes, I'm sure everyone's had that one game where you just couldn't make a 2+ armor save, and FNP would have been useful. Doesn't make the apothecary upgrade good.

[plawolf]

The Apothecary upgrade is horrendously overprice and nerfed to hell and back.

Every other Apothecary gives a 6" FNP bubble, Paladin Apoths only give it to the squad.

People who compare the GK Apoth to the BA Priest like the Paladin Apoth is something to be envied clearly have no idea what they are talking about, as if you offered any GK player the opportunity to take the BA priest as an Elite (and up to 3 for a single slot btw) that can be attached to any squad and gives a 6" FNP bubble instead of just his squad all for 50pts, they would bite your hand off.

Hell, even if it was the 85pt termie armored version, they would still bite your hand off as that is so much better than the 130pt upgrade for the single unit in the GK codex that actually doesn't really need FNP to start with.

It would be infinitely more preferable if they allowed normal GKT squads to take Apothecaries, even for +75pts on to of a termie cost, I can at least see people taking the upgrade. Right now, no-one in their right minds would take a Paladin Apoth in a competitive list unless they were playing Apocalypse.

I would not be surprised if they amended the points cost in an FAQ and made the Apoth 75pts total. At least then I can see people actually bothering to take the upgrade.

[Lemt]

The Apothecary gives 4+ FNP, and yes it's expensive. To see if it's worth it, divide the cost of the Apothecary between the whole squad. At around 4-5 Paladins it starts becoming attractive. If you field 10? A steal.

[DarkLink]

Hey, wouldn't it be great if you could buy Paladins the Relentless rule for just 20pts per squad!?:p

Paladins don't really benefit much from FNP. Whether or not you're putting it on 1 or 10 Paladins, that's still 75pts that's better spent elsewhere. You're spending points on a mostly useless upgrade.


Unless you happen to know that you'll be facing an opponent who has virtually no str 8+ or AP 1/2. Then it might be worth it. But there's no point in discussing how to tailor lists here.

[blackarmchair]

Listen to DarkLink people. You're talking about adding FnP to a TWO WOUND TERMINATOR, I don't care what the codex says you can have it for free for all I care. No one in their right mind looks at a squad of paladins and thinks "HEY! Let's shoot bolters at it!!!"

Anything that the Paladins get shot with is going to ignore FnP and likely double them out. The FnP is woefully inefficient at 75 points, who cares it a worthless upgrade is even more expensive?

[Crevab]

The Apothecary upgrade is horrendously overprice and nerfed to hell and back.

Every other Apothecary gives a 6" FNP bubble, Paladin Apoths only give it to the squad

Yeah, you've been playing too much Blood Angels. No one else has a FNP bubble. It's all per model or per squad.

[Lemt]

Listen to DarkLink people. You're talking about adding FnP to a TWO WOUND TERMINATOR, I don't care what the codex says you can have it for free for all I care. No one in their right mind looks at a squad of paladins and thinks "HEY! Let's shoot bolters at it!!!"

Anything that the Paladins get shot with is going to ignore FnP and likely double them out. The FnP is woefully inefficient at 75 points, who cares it a worthless upgrade is even more expensive?

But... if 30 Boyz assault you, with FNP you'll only take 1-2 wounds instead of 3-4!

[DarkLink]

Like I said, if you know you're going to be fighting something that can only really hurt you via weight of fire (like ork mobz), then go ahead and take it. But most armies don't need to use weight of fire to kill paladins, and list tailoring is kinda pointless in a general discussion.

[Xenith]

Wow. I remember wiping a whole squad of Grey Knight Terminators (older) recently, sure half of them died to dark lance spam and he was out of cover due to bad DS, but the other half died to massed pie-plates just like everything else.

Bet he would have liked FNP!

Wouldnt have done any good. You dont get FnP vs AP2.

[Lerra]

It depends on your local meta. Every Paladin around here has FnP because we have a lot of foot hordes (nids and IG mostly, but orks, kroot, and bolter marine spam would fit in this category too).

Armies that will probably rely on rate-of-fire/bucket-of-dice to kill paladins: Chaos Daemons, Nids, Orks, Necrons, Blood Angels, Vanilla marines with the possible exception of TH/SS termies, most Tau armies, foot IG.

Armies that have enough plasma/S8+ to kill 10 paladins: Mech IG, Vet-spam IG, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Vulkan Marines, Farsight Tau.

[blackarmchair]

But... if 30 Boyz assault you, with FNP you'll only take 1-2 wounds instead of 3-4!

I'd just throw meganobz/ghazzy at them and trade squads. Even orks and other horde armies have STR8 in relative abundance.

[DarkLink]

And then the Paladins would activate their force weapons and kill every nob before you got to hit. Ghazgul is scarier, but only really on his Waaahg turn with that invulnerable save.

[blackarmchair]

Yeah that's what he's for. Squad trading.

[Tynskel]

Just use Deff Rollas. They will squish paladins into pancakes!