Did GW screw up Drazhar?

[BlackEnsign]

Perhaps everyone is over DE now... I had a bit of playtesting with the new rules, then went away for a few months. Now that I'm back I'm preparing a list for a local club tournament.

At my local club, it is rare to see an army without a named character in it. This kind of gets on my nerves as most of the time there is no "Fluff" reason for said character to join the army, but people field them because they want the bonus rules.

I liked Drazhar when he was only worth 100 pts and was fielded as a bodyguard. With those rules, I could have my armies Archon (no special rules) and have Drazhar without blowing too many points. Now he is 230 points it really is an either or.

The new rules for Drazhar are quite nice, but for the price, I can do so much better. I can put up an Archon for 145 points or less which is very effective but I don't like it all that much. If I stretch for Drazhar, I may as well go an extra 10 points for Vect.

For the extra 10 points, you get:
+1 WS
+1 BS
-1 S
-1 T
+1 W
+1 I
2+ Invulnerable from Shadow Field
Plasma Grenades
Haywire Grenades
Always wound on 3's in combat
Seize the Initiative on 4+
The ability to regain wounds by shooting

Both Characters can have Preferred Enemy, but Drazhar only gets it against one model.
Both are Fearless

In terms of Attacks:
Vect has 7 on the charge,
Drazhar can have either 8x Str 4 or 6x Str 6 attacks on the charge.

My feeling is that Vects ability to always wound on 3's more than offsets Drazhars extra Strength or the ability to have 1 more attack than Vect.
I also feel that having the Shadow Field and the ability to regain wounds more than offsets having the added toughness and Eternal Warrior.


The dilemma I have is that my army fluff (which is too long to explain right now!) allows for characters like Drazhar or Leilith to fight with my army on occasion, but Vect would NEVER join them.

What do you think of using the Vect rules for another character at the head of my "Kabal"? Even though Fluff states Vect is stronger than my leader, (I am still working on a name...) I quite like the rules for Vect. Note I would not be using the Dais...
Alternatives of course are Leilith or Archon.

[Dark Severen]

This is just me but I NEVER field SC's as their named SC's. I'm a big fan of Malys but in my army she's known as 'Lady Severen' and in larger point battles I have a female version of 'Vect' known as 'The Mistress'. Now in the fluff there's no way in hell Malys and Vect would fight together, nor under the same banner... Depends if you want to be literal or not.

This game isn't designed to be treated rigidly (unless you want it to) after all, lets say you have Drazhar in your army but your opponent is also Dark Eldar and is fielding Drazhar too. Who gets Drazhar? In the fluff there is only ONE Drazhar so I'm sorry one of you HAS to remove Drazhar. If I was in that sort of environment I would just pack up and think to myself '/facepalm.'

My Dark Eldar are an all female Kabal*. We're talking kinky man hating lesbians here who use whips and chains in combat and they don't use 'Pain' Tokens... they use 'Pleasure' Tokens. It's known as Kabal of the Bloodied Moon or 'The Sisterhood' with Lady Severen (Malys) and 'The Mistress' (Vect) at the head. Now imagine what they get up to in their private chamber?

And down the chain lies the Archonesses who I often take to battle instead of a named SC, purely for the points limit and nothing to do with the fluff. My Haemonculi aren't twisted bodies of melded flesh, they are known as 'Daughters of pleasure eternal'. You see? there's no end to the possibilities of what YOU want to create... Be creative as you like!

Just as long as your opponent knows WHAT is WHAT, there shouldn't be a problem. :)

(*And yes, that means that any male torsos have been discarded.)

My suggestion would be if you want to field Vect, or Leilith, or Drazhar, etc... Why not come up with 'fluff' in your Kabal that allows characters to be used but under a different name? As long as you explain to your opponent... THAT'S VECT (as it stands now there is no Vect on foot model anyway so in a literal world NO ONE should be using him in games!) then it's all good.

And if you come across some 'Weirdy with a beardy' (you know who I'm talking about... THAT GUY) who wants it to be LITERAL 'Vect MUST be Vect' just remind him that it's a table-top game and NOT REAL!

So yes! Use Vect as another named character! :)

[Dark Severen]

And of the few games I have used 'The Mistress' (Vect) I haven't gone wrong yet! :)
As a personal choice: Vect over Drazhar...

[gcsmith]

There are always count as rules. Which allows you to use same rules and apply your own fluff, So they would be a vect count as, I want to do that for my tau with Farsight and run commander puretide.

[BlackEnsign]

Ok, thanks for that, I will use Vect (or the rules under a diff name). This came about because I was thinking of including Drazhar, which I used to do with the old DE rules. Then when I looked at the points cost vs Vect I just couldn't believe how much better Vect is at everything.

It makes me think that Drazhar should be worth a lot less points.

[isotope99]

Whilst I agree that Vect is probably better, you've left a few pro-drazhar points out like 2+ armour, the klaivex onslaught power for the squad and the ability to wriggle out of combat with any nasty power fists hiding in the enemy squad.

Basically for me, if you want a big squad of incubi with a klaivex anyway, make room for Drazhar instead, as a regular klaivex with all powers and demiklaves is already 82 points. Otherwise, he's not good enough and desperately misses an invulnerable save and plasma grenades.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I've used both Vect and Drazhar in games before. Vect got instakilled by a strength 6 shot when his Shadowfield failed. Vect got instakilled by a force weapon. In fact, every game I've played, Vect gets slapped by something. I'm sure it's just been bad luck.
Drazhar, however, has shrugged off Strength 9 Lascannon blasts, and butchered his way through 30 Bloodclaws SINGLEHANDEDLY in a game before. He's never died on me. I am selling my Dark Eldar now (personal cash flow problem! And Grey Knights, ahem....) and both he and Lelith will be missed heaps, but not Vect. Give Vect Eternal Warrior and we're cooking with gas, but without it, he's an easy target.

[Dark Severen]

Vect is very tricky to use though and Drazhar does have more survivability... But personal experience shows I get more success with Vect over Drazhar but then others favour the D over the V... Experiment with both and see what yields the most reward for you, given your own playstyle.

And never let fluff get in the way of fielding certain units... You can always change the style to suit your own fluff as long as they follow their orginal rules and your opponent knows what he/she is facing.

Incidently I haven't failed a single Shadowfield save with Vect to date, so no doubt my luck is due to turn soon... lol

[BuFFo]

Drazhar is a Blood Claw.

Vect is a Grey Hunter.

Any questions?

[BlindGunn]

Drazhar is a Blood Claw.

Vect is a Grey Hunter.

Any questions?
Can I get Drazhar a Wolf Priest for "Oath of War"? :p

Seriously, you use them right, nothing wrong with Blood Claws. :cool:

Same with Drazhar.

I agree with Dark Severen - experiment with both. One of them may be completely unsuitable for your mindset and game style. You won't know until you try them both out.

[Drew da Destroya]

I haven't used either, so my input into this thread is useless... but I want to mention that "Kabal of the Bloodied Moon" is hilarious.

[Dark Severen]

@ Drew da Destroyer

*and slightly off-topic, apologies*

lol, thankyou for your comment! I also have a Craftworld Army known as 'Craftworld of the Eclipsed Sun'... It's a sort of Synergy between the two armies... Lunar and Solar Eclipses respectively... And in my fluff the two armies do in fact work together under the influence of the Laughing God.

I've been a huge fan of Harlequins waaaaay back when they had their own stand-alone army, so I've taken as much as I can forward into a 'legitimate GW Codex'. I do run my Harlequin army using a fan-dex but they're only really used on my board.

The real ***** for me concerning the Dark Eldar is purchasing at least double the amount of models required to keep it all female... Hell, it's worth it though! :)

Keeping it on topic... er... Vect Good! He's good! Drazhar good too... erm... Have I got away with it?

[BuFFo]

Seriously, you use them right, nothing wrong with Blood Claws. :cool:

Agreed, but if you can use Blodo Claws well, you can use Grey hunters just as well, and they do MORE.

If you are told that a higher number wins you the game more, and your choice is 4 and 6, um, you go with 6?


Same with Drazhar.

Same as above. If you can do well with Drazhar, you can do well with Vect, who is only 10 points more.

Drazhar is a travesty. Easily 100 points over cost. ICs live and die by their ++ save. Mephiston can get away with it because he has a metric ton of ridiculous rules to keep him alive.

Unless you are playing with fluff, there is no reason that when picking Drazhar for your army you shouldn't kick in the extra 10 points and get the game winning Vect.

[w7west]

The trick is to use drazar with vect + 8 incubi in the dias. Now that you have spent 850 points on a t3 squad in an open topped plane, just turboboost around everywhere with it while the rest of your army takes not a single shot.



Seriously though I don't see a need for either IC because of how good venoms are there should be nothing for these guys to even attack if a squad gets knocked out of a transport. Who cares if your IC can kill 6 space marines in one swing when you are sitting on 100's of poison shots? No thanks I will take my archon + incubi just as a de cigar and never even disembark them just let them watch the carnage.

[Sougunockag]

Rebuilding my Carb and as the title says my "Trickit" did not come with the float bowl screw gaskets. Or did it? There are 8 plastic rings that fit over the screws... are these the new gaskets?

[w7west]

Rebuilding my Carb and as the title says my "Trickit" did not come with the float bowl screw gaskets. Or did it? There are 8 plastic rings that fit over the screws... are these the new gaskets?

But does it worth?

[davel]

I don't think they messed him up, if any thing they may of messed up the other characters points in relation to him

My reasoning is they have deliberately left his fluff and his stats as " he could be a pheonix lord". His stats are identical to craft world ( if any thing he has an edge over them due to pain tokens) lords.

he has not been rushed out as essentially he has been based on long established characters.

Dave l

[Sougunockag]

Did you start a clan or get the leadership from another leader with 100k?