1850pt Crowe List

[blackjack]

Here is my serious Idea for an 1850 Grey knights list.

Crowe
Vindicar Assasin
6 Purifiers, 2 Psy Cannons, 3 Halberds, 1 MC Daemon Hammer
1 Razorback, Psy Bolt Ammo.
6 Purifiers, 2 Psy Cannons, 3 Halberds, 1 MC Daemon Hammer
1 Razorback, Psy Bolt Ammo.
6 Purifiers, 2 Psy Cannons, 3 Halberds, 1 MC Daemon Hammer
1 Razorback, Psy Bolt Ammo.
6 Purifiers, 2 Psy Cannons, 3 Halberds, 1 MC Daemon Hammer
1 Razorback, Psy Bolt Ammo.
6 Purifiers, 2 Psy Cannons, 3 Halberds, 1 MC Daemon Hammer
1 Razorback, Psy Bolt Ammo.
Dread, 2 Twin Linked Auto Cannons, Psybolt Ammo
Dread, 2 Twin Linked Auto Cannons, Psybolt Ammo
Dread, 2 Twin Linked Auto Cannons, Psybolt Ammo
1850pts

I can't seem to get much feed back on if this is a good idea or not. Please help.

[greenstuff777]

Why the Vindicare though?

[volrath8754]

Seems Solid. At first I thought the razors were a wast but with the razors storm bolters and psycannons you aught to thin down a MEQ squad before they get to swing. So not a bad Idea. Im interested to see the results let us know how it goes.

Edit:

Why the Vindicare though?

Because it's the only thing in the list that can reliably suppress / kill a land raider / av 14. If not for that guy you would be in a world of hurt against some builds.

[greenstuff777]

Oh yeah I didnt catch that
LOL

[Splug]

The basic premise makes sense. You have a lot of very similar targets with S6-8 shooting. There's no easy way to remove all your scoring mobility, all your anti-tank, or all your anti-infantry at once. I'm not entirely sold on razorback squads, as they tend to be a bit helpless if they have to get out of the tank with anything scary nearby, and tend to vaporize anywhere on the field against an opponent with heavy long-ranged shooting. I don't think the close-combat upgrades will be helpful in those small squads. 6-9 attacks at I6 may thin down a squad a bit, but even at S5 you are only looking at killing 2-3 MEQ's out of a full squad before they get to swing - not enough to reach the scary weapons, or even shift the number of basic attacks greatly. The demonhammer makes sense for use against vehicles, but on the whole I'd be leery about getting those small purifier squads anywhere near melee. I'd say you're better off just throwing a second demonhammer in each squad to use as a last-resort heavy AV/MC smiting tool.

[Denied]

I was looking at doing a similar Purifier spam list and contemplated a toss between the list you have and another with storm ravens. Basically my concern with your list would be that Crowe becomes a wasted 150pts because you have no where to load him for transport.

[Denied]

So under the assumption I didn't make a mistake in the numbers because I don't have my Codex on me at the moment my suggestion for your list would be more or less:

Crowe (Loaded in Rhino with 5 man purifiers)
5x (6man) purifiers,Psybolt Ammo, 2 Psycannons, 3 Halbreds, 1 MC Daemon Hammer (Loaded in Vanilla Rhinos)
1x (5man) purifiers, Psybolt Ammo, 2Psycannons, 2 Halbreds, 1 MC Daemon Hammer (Loaded in Rhino With Crowe)
3x Dreadnoughts, 2 Twin-linked Auto Cannons, Psybolt Ammo

This leaves you with 1 extra point which for lawls you can throw a Search Light on Crowe's Rhino to make him feel "special"

I think if your going to go with the Purifier spam go big or go home this list gives you 5 extra Purifiers and a transport for Crowe so he isn't a wasted 150 pts.

[Splug]

Crowe does not have the Independent Character rule. He's like Mephiston, without fleet, wings, T6, a force weapon, or a serious supply of wounds. Pretty much, he's a 150-point / 1 HQ slot price tag on making purifiers troops, with less survivability than the average Lone Wolf.

[Denied]

Crowe does not have the Independent Character rule. He's like Mephiston, without fleet, wings, T6, a force weapon, or a serious supply of wounds. Pretty much, he's a 150-point / 1 HQ slot price tag on making purifiers troops, with less survivability than the average Lone Wolf.


Yeah, I had completely forgot he didn't have the Independent Character rule. You really think he should though!

[wittdooley]

Crowe does not have the Independent Character rule. He's like Mephiston, without fleet, wings, T6, a force weapon, or a serious supply of wounds. Pretty much, he's a 150-point / 1 HQ slot price tag on making purifiers troops, with less survivability than the average Lone Wolf.

Except he has the great chance of taking out any badass character your opponent if fielding upon his death. Pass a Psychic test, roll to hit at WS7. Bye Bye Daemon Prince/Carnifex/Ghazkull/Avatar/Abbaddon/Lysander.

[DarkLink]

I don't know if I'd call a 61% chance great odds.

[Splug]

Even then, it's only a 61% chance if you're looking at a LD10 psychic check on 2d6 and have higher WS than your target. If your opponent has WS7+, a psychic defense, or a rule to temporarily reduce leadership, that chance reduces - though if he dies the turn he charges, he should get to use Herald of Titan to reroll hits. That's all of course assuming a two wound T4 model in artificer armor with no dedicated transport option makes it to charge range in the first place.

That said, purifiers as troops are probably worth the 150 point investment, even if Crowe himself is unimpressive.

[DarkLink]

Well, Crowe is Ld 10 and WS 8, so it's probably going to be a 61% chance, so long as there are no psychic defenses.

[wittdooley]

Well, Crowe is Ld 10 and WS 8, so it's probably going to be a 61% chance, so long as there are no psychic defenses.

That's pretty decently high in the 40k world though, isn't it?

[jorz192]

Against a large group of enemies without power weapons Crowe could be deadly.

I'll use the example of a thirty model size unit of Ork boys, but yes I know they will pretty much always have a Nob with a power klaw.

The Ork boys use waagh to charge Crowe. He uses Cleansing flame wounding on a 4+ causing 15 wounds, with the Boyz 6+ save I will round it off to 12 dead Ork Boyz,

Crowe adopts the defense stance so he can re-roll failed armor saves. The 18 remaining Ork Boyz each have 4 attacks, at weapon skill 4 they hit on a 5+ with re-rolls because of Crowe's special rule.

The Ork Boyz get 40 hits on Crowe. They wound on a 3+ because of Furious charge I will round it up to 27 wounds. Crowe takes his armor saves and it comes out to .75 which I round up to 1 wound.

This scenario is really thrown to Crowe but I wanna keep going with it even though it would probably never happen exactly like this.

The Ork Boyz would be fearless and would take 11 armor saves from combat resolution probably resulting in 9 more dead.

With 9 orks left Crowe could take out the rest of the unit the next round. I know this is a completely optimistic situation as the Boyz didn't shoot and that would throw it for the Boyz. I guess a better example for this would be Hormaguants but I am not as familiar with them.

[plawolf]

Purifiers are probably the best unit in the game to use for razorspam.

2A base MEQ all with power weapons, option for I6 or more attacks, and on top of all that, cleansing flame. Would you really wanna take on a 6 men purifier squad even with a 10 man tactical or assault squad?

Crowe himself isn't nearly as useless as some people think, and a lack of transport is not so much of an issue, since you might go 12" first turn, but most of the time, those razorbacks will just be going 6" to shoot. Crowe can just hoof it up the field after them. With running and 6" charge, he should be in the thick of any fighting pretty early.

Although I would not take quite so many psycannons if I was running such a list. Your guys are sitting in razorbacks a lot of the time, and will be in CC pretty soon after the get out anyways. You probably won't get to use the psycannons enough to make it worth while.

I would be tempted to make a few other tweaks to find the points for at least a techmarine and a xenos =I= with conversion beamers.

Currently your list lacks the means to effectively counter AV14 at range other than your vindicare. He is just not enough, and would benefit from the techmarine bolstering his cover save as well.

Maybe consider dropping a squad of purifiers to get 2 techmarines and an =I= with beamers, and you can also take a henchmen squad in a chimera to make up for the dropped razorback and probably get a better shooty unit out of it with better front armor on the chimera as well as the option to plasma/melta/monkey spam and/or to load up on some crusaders and DCAs to give your force some extra CC punch.

[Sonikgav]

I personally prefer units in Rhino's.

At first glance the Razors look cool with S6 HeavyBolters (i personally dont think the extra cost is worth putting anything else on it) but in a Rhino the vehicle can move 6" and 2 of the squad members can still fire out of the fire points with assault weapons. This means the Rhino, instead of 3 S6 shots is putting out (providing you have Psycannons) 4 S7 Rending shots and a spare Stormbolter. The shorter range offset by the fact its Cheaper, has more shots and higher strength.

I will admit, you can match this result by taking a Psybolt Assault Cannon instead of heavybolter on the Razor but i dont think paying over twice the cost of the Rhino is worth it. Id rather have more of those troops.

Of course once the squad has left the vehicle it becomes much less usefull but tbh it will be highly unlikely those transports will still be unscathed anyway.

It also means that in a 10man squad you have a chance for 4 Psycannons which suddenly means those Purifiers are as much a threat out of Combat as they are in. Focussed fire on most vehicles will punch through some armour, even upto AV14. There can still be 5 Halberds and a Hammer in the unit (as much if not more than your 6 man squads) so dont worry about combat but it means theyre not a 1 trick pony. You wont have that many Scoring models in relation to other armies so having them able to adapt to multiple threats is fantastic as well as being able to pump out more than simple bolter fire should they lose their transport.

[blackjack]

Ok lets look at 10 man squads in a Rhino, 10 Man Squads with a Razor and combat squading....


10 guys, 4 psi cannons, 5 halberds and an MC hammer is 300pts even. (MC on the hammer is optional but it keeps the math clean)...

With a Rhino thats 340pts

With a Psi back Razor thats 350pts

This means you are not taking more than 3 squads to my 5. thats 2 less vechiles for the enemy to pop 2 less str6 twin linked HBs in return for 2 more psi cannons. If you run Rhnos you cant even use the extra psi cannons till you get out of the rhino, if you run razors your psi cannon guys are walking as well, often without cover saves as 24" means they won't get thier pick of position if they want to be in range.

My way allows me to move 6 fire all razor weapons and get out with my guys fireing 2 psi cannons while gaining cover from the razors.

[Denied]

I play tested a similar list recently and my final verdict was that purifiers don't impress me as much in use as they did on paper. Don't get me wrong they are an awesome elite choice and I will most likely have a squad in my final tournament list, but it will definitely be only one squad of 10 and not an entire army of small squads.

The points you waste on Crowe are much better spent elsewhere.