Crowe & his speial rule

[George Labour]

So for those of us who have had time to sit down and read the new Grey Knight Codex we've all read the rules for the special character that lets you take purifiers as troops.

To keep it short, he's a cheap HQ unit that lets you take one of the best units as troops instead of elites. His disadvantage is his sword gives enemy units assaulting him furious charge and rerolls.

However last night I noticed he lacks the Indepent character special rule which brought to mind upgrade characters such as Lukas the trickster. The reason for this is that Lukas has a special ability that affects him, but it doesn't come into play until he's the last blood claw alive, or the enemy has a special ability to single him out.

However Lukas is a unit upgrade, while crowe is an HQ choice..but doesn't have the same IC rule that the rest do.

So now the question are. Is Crowe an IC and that's just one for the errata pile? if he isn't, does charging the unit he must be in count as charging him for purposes of his special rule?

Obviously I'm on the fence on this one, but if his daemon sword doesn't have a downside until he's on his own then he suddenly becomes less of a liability for at least a round or two.

[somerandomdude]

He is not an upgrade character at all. He is listed separately with his own point cost, and no unit in the codex says he can be taken as part of it.

The question you should ask now is, if a unit multi-charges Crowe and another unit, does the enemy get bonuses against the second unit. I think the Furious Charge would work, but possibly not the rerolls, depending on the exact wording (don't have it with me). If it states that the enemy can reroll attacks directed at Crowe, then obviously only those ones would be rerolled.

[George Labour]

That'll definitely end up in the FAQ in time. There's room for 'interpretation' and that's never a good thing with a rule that's disadvantageous.

Although you do bring up a good point in the enemy only getting the special rule against him, rather than any unit he's currently attached to. Still keeps him somewhat viable without causing any huge issues.

[Tynskel]

unit bonuses apply to all situations.

If a unit has furious charge, it has furious charge, whether fighting 1 or a million.

However, it the rules stated: granted furious charge to models attacking crowe-- this would be very specific, stating only models attacking crowe gain furious charge.

[UltramarineFan]

Although you do bring up a good point in the enemy only getting the special rule against him, rather than any unit he's currently attached to.

Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought he couldn't join ANY unit?

[George Labour]

Correct me if I'm wrong but i thought he couldn't join ANY unit?

Well there's a DUH moment for me. He's not an IC, so he can't join a unit. So yeah only he has to deal with the issue of his weapon being a PIA. That also makes him immensely snipeable, but I suppose you'd almost want him geeked instead of all those nifty purifiers closing in to spread some Grey knight loving.

[Nungunz]

For what he does, he definitely isn't cheap. A 150 point tax just to take purifiers as troops is a lot. And then he can't even join them, doesn't have a power weapon (though the 4+ rending is nice), and he's pretty damn easy to kill. I just see him hiding out behind a line of vehicles (or in one that's empty for some reason) because as soon as he steps into line of sight he's going to take a lascannon or dark lance to the face and then he's done. Good luck getting him into CC. He isn't even all that great at it.

[Tynskel]

why do you need a Power Weapon when you always wound and ignore armor saves on a 4+? Sounds better than a power weapon. He sounds like the perfect guy to throw at a hormogaunt squad. They try to kill him, and cannot. Then he chops a bunch of their head's off.

He's a good price for 150. Purifiers rock-- 2 attacks each, all power weapons, and can take 4 heavy weapons.

Even more reason to take halberds-- 2 halberds and assault and that's 6 Str4 Init6 attacks. Or take Falchions (or both) for tons of attacks.

[MaltonNecromancer]

I don't see why it needs a FAQ. he's not an IC, he's a unit of one. If you attack him, you get Furious Charge. If not, you don't.

I cannot fathom why anyone would take Crowe. Apart from making Purifiers into Troops, I literally cannot see what he brings to the game other than a point-sink liability.

[Kawauso]

I don't see why it needs a FAQ. he's not an IC, he's a unit of one. If you attack him, you get Furious Charge. If not, you don't.

I cannot fathom why anyone would take Crowe. Apart from making Purifiers into Troops, I literally cannot see what he brings to the game other than a point-sink liability.

150 points is not a point sink.

I played a game against GK with my 'nids last night and Crowe was a huge pain in the *** for me.
2+/4++ isn't all -that- vulnerable, especially when he can hide behind pretty much anything until he's close enough to assault.

[George Labour]

I don't see why it needs a FAQ. he's not an IC, he's a unit of one. If you attack him, you get Furious Charge. If not, you don't.

I cannot fathom why anyone would take Crowe. Apart from making Purifiers into Troops, I literally cannot see what he brings to the game other than a point-sink liability.

I made a boo boo in my rush to discover new ways to use the codex and forgot that he's a character, but not an IC and thus can't join a unit. If he could, then there'd be the question of how his special disadvantage affected them. I cited Lukas as the example.

However I've been shown the light and said I'm an idiot.

[thecactusman17]

150 points is pretty damned cheap for what it does. Seriously, what other character makes a unit that good troops? MAYBE Biker Warboss, but even then the unit you buy afterwards is going to cost a hell of a lot more than Purifiers will.

Crowe has a single major disadvantage, which is the lack of Independant Character. That's really the only one. If it weren't for that, you could stuff him in a transport and be done with him, then run him out to kill whatever he needed to be sacrificed to.

[George Labour]

Well he also takes up an HQ slot. Since you only have two in normal games you then have to make a choice between librarian, inquisitor, or grand master. Though I imagine if you take Crowe you'd take a librarian and try to keep them close enough to provide support for each other.

Then fill up on purifiers in rhinos, throw some land raiders or dreads in there for long range fire and go a burning.

[Kawauso]

For the game in question, my opponent did indeed take a Librarian to accompany Crowe.

However, he was too paranoid - convinced that Deathleaper was following him - and between his delusions of being stalked and the ever-present Shadow in the Warp, he virtually never managed to cast any psychic powers. :D

But yes, scoring Purifiers are scary. :(

[plawolf]

Well, people say Crowe is sniper bait, but if you were running a CC army and Crowe was standing near a bunch of other Grey Knights, would you actually want to shoot him even if he was out in the open?

I can kinda see him working as a bit of a bait unit that way - he leads the charge with a bunch of purifiers, the opposition gets greedy and wants to multicharge to get the extra charge bonuses so actually leaves Crowe alone. Then, when the enemy is in charge range, the purifiers close ranks so Crowe cannot actually be assaulted, and so offers no extra charge bonus. Enemy left with choice of charging purifiers or being charged themselves. Either way, if they are stuck in CC next turn, Crowe can safely wade in without granting any bonuses to the enemy.

It would be a bit of a risky move, but you would feel mightily pleased with yourself if you managed to pull it off against someone.

[jorz192]

I just want to note that Crowe will not always grant the enemy furious charge, because sometimes he will be charging.

And I think he would make a nice unit to bait your enemy with, he may be a big distraction when he is sitting next to another target that would be worth destroying.

And this is a stupid question, but in the rule book it doesn't give the maximum number of choices of units in force organization slots. It just gives the minimum, one HQ and two troops. Is it just a standard practice to only use a certain amount of units in each category? And what are the numbers?

[Lemt]

I just want to note that Crowe will not always grant the enemy furious charge, because sometimes he will be charging.

And I think he would make a nice unit to bait your enemy with, he may be a big distraction when he is sitting next to another target that would be worth destroying.

And this is a stupid question, but in the rule book it doesn't give the maximum number of choices of units in force organization slots. It just gives the minimum, one HQ and two troops. Is it just a standard practice to only use a certain amount of units in each category? And what are the numbers?

Page 87 of the rulebook. Standard games are max 2 HQ, 6 Troops, and 3 of everything else.

[jorz192]

Page 87 of the rulebook. Standard games are max 2 HQ, 6 Troops, and 3 of everything else.

Thanks, I never say the way the compulsorily and mandatory combined. I feel like an idiot now but thanks man.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Well he also takes up an HQ slot

That right there, combined with the non-IC, is why I view him as a point sink. I'd rather take Draigo and have a 10 man Paladin Squad with the works (Brotherhood Banner, Apothecary, Master-crafted Weapons, Psybolt Ammo), and drop the hammer than use someone like Crowe. Maybe in 1500 pt games he'd be worth it (or if I preferred a more infantry-spammy army), but as it stands, he just doesn't do it for me.

(I am aware that the paladin squad I describe comes in at insane level points for one ten man squad, but I kinda like that; plus, it'll terrify your opponent but good. I like the idea that GK have almost no guys on the battlefield. Makes them feel like something other than just another flavour of Razorback spamming MEQ.)

[George Labour]

I've actually been eying Mordrad and a full squad of normal termies, plus banner, and librarian myself. First turn deep strike with no scatter, plus shrouding, plus psycannons.

The only thing I lose is some of the versatility of the Build your own grandmaster.

But I keep looking at Crowe, and then at my forty some odd power armored grey knights, then back to Crowe.

[Brass Scorpion]

The best characters are the ones that provide cool modeling projects. I might build a Crowe out of plastics, that wouldn't be too tough. I'm also seriously considering Mordrad and the Ghost Warriors because it's a great modeling and painting project opportunity.

This is the best Crow, no "e", but with a T. Robot:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070115040142/mst3k/images/thumb/1/12/Crowsolo.jpg/200px-Crowsolo.jpg

[Tynskel]

The best characters are the ones that provide cool modeling projects. I might build a Crowe out of plastics, that wouldn't be too tough. I'm also seriously considering Mordrad and the Ghost Warriors because it's a great modeling and painting project opportunity.

This is the best Crow, no "e", but with a T. Robot:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070115040142/mst3k/images/thumb/1/12/Crowsolo.jpg/200px-Crowsolo.jpg

See, somebody is actually using their head!

[George Labour]

I already have a 'mordrad' One of my psycannon knights lost the top of his halberd a while back so a friend modeled on one of those big iron studded rocks from his Ogre Kingdom 2handers. I call it 'the rock of the emperor'. Though I guess I'll have to swap his arm out is I do use him for that...time to pop for some magnets.

[celestialatc]

I used Crowe last night and I have to say, he is not that bad when you have him go after a large target. Took on a blood thrister and well the daemon killed Crowe, the ability Heroic Sacrifice destroyed him. So I think he is worth the points to let purifiers be troops (who are amazing) and to pop something that might be a problems later in the game.

[UltramarineFan]

That right there, combined with the non-IC, is why I view him as a point sink. I'd rather take Draigo and have a 10 man Paladin Squad with the works (Brotherhood Banner, Apothecary, Master-crafted Weapons, Psybolt Ammo), and drop the hammer than use someone like Crowe. Maybe in 1500 pt games he'd be worth it (or if I preferred a more infantry-spammy army), but as it stands, he just doesn't do it for me.

(I am aware that the paladin squad I describe comes in at insane level points for one ten man squad, but I kinda like that; plus, it'll terrify your opponent but good. I like the idea that GK have almost no guys on the battlefield. Makes them feel like something other than just another flavour of Razorback spamming MEQ.)

That's abit of a ridiculous comparsion whether you like Crowe or not. Crowe is 150 pts, the unit of paladins and Draigo you suggest is 825 pts..
As others have suggested I see him as a great bait unit and anyway he's great against hordes of rubishy troups because there won't be that many enemies in base contact with him coz he's on his own so he's only going to be taking a few saves whereas he can potentially kill them all because of his Cleansing Flame power.

[Sonikgav]

Crowe is gonna emerge as a really decent choice for the tactically minded general. Someone who is aware that the positioning of every model can make the difference over the type of player that prefers a big mob of the hard stuff that costs about half of their entire force.

He suits those players that dont rely on the HQ hero's to do all the work and values his basic troopers more to get the job done.

[wkz]

Crowe is gonna emerge as a really decent choice for the tactically minded general. Someone who is aware that the positioning of every model can make the difference over the type of player that prefers a big mob of the hard stuff that costs about half of their entire force.

He suits those players that dont rely on the HQ hero's to do all the work and values his basic troopers more to get the job done.

When the bulk of your forces consist of units that'll kick other armies' elites up and down the warp, I doubt the "basic troopers" argument is going to hold much water :D

[somerandomdude]

I've actually been eying Mordrad and a full squad of normal termies, plus banner, and librarian myself. First turn deep strike with no scatter, plus shrouding, plus psycannons.

Mordrak does not have IC, so he can not join a unit. He could only be attached to a unit of Ghost Knights, at which point a Librarian can join them.

[George Labour]

Yeah I realized the thing with mordrad five seconds after posting that.

But then I realized that you can attach a librarian to him, then use summoning to bring the terminators over to him. Though I think they have a risk of scattering as the power says they land as per the deep strike rules. 0.0

Though if done right you could literally summon two units (including some land raiders) to you on turn one.