First Grey Knight 'Broken' Tactic.

[Sonikgav]

So someone at GW pointed this out to me today. It may have come up already but oh well....


Grey Knight Grand Master + Stuff (including Rad Grenades)
Grey Knight Grand Master + Stuff (including Rad Grenades)

Techmarine + Stuff (including Rad Grenades)
Techmarine + Stuff (including Rad Grenades)
Techmarine + Stuff (including Rad Grenades)

Lumped into one unit of IC's = Anything they charge gets -5 to their toughness which means anything thats T5 or less gets reduced to 0 and is therefore dead without even having to fight....

So....how they gonna fix this one? Probably change the rad grenades to 'to a minimum of 1'.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I'd assume the -1 T isn't cumulative. Such effects usually aren't, unless it's explicitly stated.

Of course, adding over 680 points worth of Independent Characters to a squad isn't really that broken, even if the grenades did work that way. They'd be able to kill most anything on the charge even without the grenades, and would always be exposed in the opponents shooting phase after assaulting a unit and would quickly succumb to weight of fire since the army would have so few targets.

[armbarred]

"During a turn in which a unit equipped with rad grenades launches an assault, or is assaulted, the enemy unit(s) suffer a -1..."

Not trying to quote too much for legality sake, but there is no way the penalty stacks...

[Sonikgav]

The 'no way it stacks' thing was my response but apparently i was told it does and says so in the rule entry.

Dont have my book yet so could be BS. If its 'one reduction for the whole unit carrying them and not per model' fair enough, but then what happens when you charge all 5 IC's in individually?

[Lemt]

Armbarred is right (and his quote is correct). For it to be cumulative it would have to say "... -1T for each assaulting or assaulted unit with Rad Grenades", or something of the sort. It never specifies it stacks.

But yet something else to be FAQed/Erratad' away just in case...

Also, Ordo Xenos Inquisitors can carry Rads too, and they are MUCH cheaper than Grand Masters.

[Mr.Pickelz]

how would it work if multiple units with the grenades assaulted the same unit? -1 for each unit assaulting? or just -1 across the board?

if so then i'd forsee a Swarmlord turning into T4, after being hit by one squad with a Grandmaster and a 2nd squad with Libby...i can't wait!:D That is, if it works like that.:(

[Kawauso]

The 'no way it stacks' thing was my response but apparently i was told it does and says so in the rule entry.

I'm looking at the rule entry right now, and it doesn't say that. All it says is that the grenades affect the Instant Death threshold for the afflicted models.

Effects like these don't stack anywhere else in the game, typically, unless they say so, so I'm going to have to call BS on this 'broken' unit, myself...

[Sonikgav]

Fair enough but im sure there will be someone who argues it to high heaven.

It was brought up by the local rules lawyer. The one thats still trying to do the Psyker Battle Squad + Culexus Asssin trick despite the Psyker retinues saying they count as one Psyker. (I know they dont have Brotherhood of Psykers but there is an entry in their rules that say something like 'they count as a single psyker for tests' etc)

[DarkLink]

Well, your rules lawyer is wrong. Here's why.

If a GK unit assaults or is assaulted, the enemy is at -1T. Multiples don't matter. If you have 50 Gk units that get multi-charged, a GK unit has been assaulted and thus the enemy it at -1T.

In order for it to stack, the rule would have to say "if this GK unit is charged/assaults, the enemy is at -1T". In this case, each specific Gk unit would cause -1T. However, this is not what the rule says. It says a GK unit, as in one or more. It doesn't matter if it's one or if it's 9000, it's just flat -1T.

[Mr.Pickelz]

well that sucks...and here i was hoping of seeing a guardsmen being reduced to T1...:(:(:(

[Exterminatus]

Very interesting... can't wait to see how this one turns out.

"To the righteous we bring hope. To the tainted we bring fire."

- Castellan Garran crowe