Inquisition Henchman Warband Question

[Lednera]

High guys I wan your opinion if I take Cotez the Warbands become Troop Choices that is simple to understand under normal conditions you get up to 6 Warbands one for each Troop Slot, but the question comes from the seccond part of the warbands information saying that they take up no Force Organization slot. So would in theory be possible to have Cotez and HQ up to 6 Grey Knight Troop Choices and X number of Warband that count as Troop Choices do to Cotez's special rule and the fact that Warbands take no Force Organization slots.

[Gir]

There's a lot of arguments over this, but I think it goes best like this:

You can have as many warbands as troops as you want, they don't count towards the 6 maximum OR the 2 minimum.

[thecactusman17]

Nope. Warbands become troops. You can have a maximum of 6 troops in your army, OR one warband for each Inquisitor.

[Lednera]

So review, They do not count towards Max Troop Slots but they also do not count to the minimum slots. They count as troops due to Cotez special rule but the unit itself states that they do not take a force organization slot. This makes me think that it is regardless of if they are Elite Choices or Troop Choices.

The other interpretation I see is as follows. With Cotez you get 6 Troop Choice Warbands and +1 Elite Choice Warband per Inquisitor in the Army. Though how this interacts with the two is still confusing.

[Tynskel]

my understanding is that Coatez's rule overrides the previous rules about force organization chart: so, no more elites nor non-FOC status.

[AngelsofDeath]

Just like Dark Angels using Raven or Death wing as troops. They can be taken as troops and/or should also be allowed as their original slots intended. But the good thing is that it makes those squads "scoring units" if they are selected as troop choices.

[Gir]

my understanding is that Coatez's rule overrides the previous rules about force organization chart: so, no more elites nor non-FOC status.

I read it as it just changes the force org type, not the special rules about selecting them.

[Tynskel]

I guess it could be read that way, but it doesn't make sense.
The logical solution is that Coatez's special rule overrides the FOC. The 40k rulebook states that the Codex defines the FOC for a codex, and Coatez is further modifying the codex.

[Eusebius Rex]

there definately needs to be an FAQ or addenduam for this one. I've just typed 3 different responses to this topic taking 3 different view points and all quoted rules verbatim. I erased them all...

The view I think will win in the end is that you can take 6x troop henchmen units and then 1:1 (henchmen : inquisitors) non-FOC in addition to that. I believe that the phrase "are not limited by the number of inquisitors" means that you don't have to have 1 inquisotor for every troop choice henchmen unit you take not that inquisitors can't trigger the non-FOC henchmen unit any longer. So basically no more than 8 total (6x troops and 2 more with Coatez and one other Inquisitor)

I think many of the views have some RAW ground to stand on - even the one that basically means you can take 6x troop henchies + infinate # of non-FoC henchies due to the Inquisitor limitation being lifted by Coatez.

Henchmen squads look like a lot of fun - I'm hoping we can have some local Kill Team tournies of nothing but henchie squads.

[DarkLink]

There's nothing inherent in the rules that causes Coteaz's rule to override the "does not take up a force org slot" rule. A unit can be a troops choice and not take up a force org slot, as in the case of Summoned Lesser Daemons.

In addition, just because it does not take a force org slot does not necessarily mean that it does not count towards the minimum requirements, as in the case with the Black Templar Emperor's Champion. Summoned Lesser Daemons

GW has handled this situation on a case by case basis, and unfortunately this doesn't leave us with a clear solution to this situation.

The only way I can read it is this: Coteaz allows you to take an infinite number of Warbands. I don't see anything that definitely causes the Warbands to start taking up force org slots. Being a troops choice does not mean that you have to take up slots, and Coteaz's rule does not explicitly state that Warbands do start taking up force org slots.

Whether or not Warbands as troops count towards the minimum requirement is a different issue. In the case of Summoned Lesser Daemons, a unit that does not take up force org slots does not count towards the minimum. In the case of the Emperor's Champion, the exact opposite is true. There is no way to get a definitive answer to this question.

[Lerra]

The way I read it, Coteaz's Warbands count as troops but do not take up a FoC slot. As such, they do not count toward the minimum 2 troops per army (like Lesser Summoned Daemons). But I agree that it could really go either way and we'll need a FAQ to settle this.

[Gir]

Whether or not Warbands as troops count towards the minimum requirement is a different issue. In the case of Summoned Lesser Daemons, a unit that does not take up force org slots does not count towards the minimum. In the case of the Emperor's Champion, the exact opposite is true. There is no way to get a definitive answer to this question.

I look at it like this:

You take Coatez.
You have filled your 1 HQ minimum.
You take a warband as troops.
You have used 0 of your troop slots.
You take another warband
Still used 0 troops slots, and therefore have not reached the minimum of 2 troop slots required.

[DarkLink]

Unfortunately, GW's not been so clear as to how that works. I think that's the best way to handle it, but we have two contrary cases. Summoned Lesser Daemons work the way you say. On the other hand, the Emperor's Champion still satisfies the minimum requirement as per the BT FAQ, despite the fact that he doesn't take up a force org slot either.

So while your solution is the logical one, there aren't any rules to either back it up or disprove it. We're left in the dark.

[thecactusman17]

Here's how i would ruleit alternately to the one I posted above:

You can take an infinite number of Coteaz warbands. However, every vehicle takes up a troops slot. So 6 chimeras are your maximum troops selection.

[Lednera]

That has left me with a question why Chimeras. They are dedicated transports not Troop choices or anything?

[DarkLink]

Yeah, by that logic you could only take 3 tactical squads with Rhinos.

[gcsmith]

I think its intended to take up slots so you may take a inquisition army, otherwise wats the point, I mean corteaz doesnt operate with GK often with his fluff.

[Lednera]

gcsmith, fluff is one thing but game mechanics are another sure I would be fine with what ever ruling goes on this one but as far as I can tell RAW it is one way but it might be a more fluffy way with a RAI with the method you were suggesting. Either way we need a definitive on the FAQs for sure.

[Gir]

So while your solution is the logical one, there aren't any rules to either back it up or disprove it. We're left in the dark.

I guess it really comes down to whether minimum requirements are based on choices taken, or slots filled. I don't have the brb on me to check if it mentions anything like this.

[DarkLink]

Unfortunately I don't think it every says anything that precise. It's pretty much just "you have to take two troops". GW's really bad about this sort of thing.

[Tynskel]

Yeah, by that logic you could only take 3 tactical squads with Rhinos.

the section in the rulebook states that dedicated transports are apart of the FOC that the unit they are purchased for are apart of, but do not take a spot in the FOC.

Ex.
HQ
Coatez

TROOPS
Henchmen
Dedicated Transport

[Lednera]

Tynskel could you please elaborate a bit on you example if I am reading it correctly you are saying Cotez and then henchman is one choice and dedicated transport is another?

As far as I understood and do not have BRB with me but Dedicated Transports are part of the unit they are purchased for and if the transport is part of a unit that takes no FOC then by deduction both Warband+Transport are no taking a Troop or Elite Slot.

[weeble1000]

He's saying that dedicated transports are the unit type of the unit they are purchased for, although they take up no FOC.

For example, in an IG army, my HQ company command squad has a dedicated Chimera, but in Dawn of War I can't deploy the command squad and the chimera because both are separate HQ units.

In the same Dawn of War deployment I could deploy one Troop infantry squad and that squad's dedicated Chimera because both are separate Troop units.

[Lockark]

There's a lot of arguments over this, but I think it goes best like this:

You can have as many warbands as troops as you want, they don't count towards the 6 maximum OR the 2 minimum.

This is how I understand the rule also.

It's like how the Deamons in Codex:CSM don't take up FOC Slots.

Unless there is a errata this seems straight foreword to me.

[Sonikgav]

It does need an Faq but general consensus here, and the ruling of my local GW manager who decides the rules for a number of local tournaments is that the FOC exclusion only counts when they are elites, thus it is possible to take a nnon grey knight, grey knight army. More of an inquisitorial force.