Comp Scores - when is enough enough?

[Inigo Montoya]

When I first started going to my flgs, I was bringing hard as nails, tournament optimized lists. I didn't care if the models were painted - I was a competitive player. The manager and some of the players, over the last couple of years, have moved me to always painted, more fluffy builds. It is still fun, but I am still competitive.

In his effort to push his perception of the game, our flgs manager has made the tournaments more and more comp based. I was cautiously OK with this - it was more than I wanted, but I accepted it.

The last tournament was the worst - I brought a DoA army at 1500 with a pimped out vv squad - a points sink kinda squad with 5 stormshields and a bunch of power weapons, but fluffy - all painted with a minimum of 5 colors, inked, washed, dipped, and based. Not the most gorgeous models ever, but well above tabletop.

I won 2 and lost 1. One of my wins was a 45 minute table of my opponent, the other was decisive.

Apparently, painted isn't enough now. Even though my battle points were higher, I finished behind a semi generic mini leafblower guard list that was well painted. Did I mention that he only won 1 game?

I talked to the manager about how I found this to be a bit over the top - his build was a power build, mine wasn't. Both were painted and based to above tabletop. He said it is part of the game.

I like the guys at this store, but I have a real issue with this. Asking for fluffy painted armies is one thing, but I think this is too much. I don't know how to handle it - I already brought it up and he was indifferent at best.

My snap reflex is to take my well painted guard list of doom from now on, take his petty comp hits, win all 3 decisively, and win the tournament. It would work a few times, and he would find a way to comp it out as well. This tournament your peers judged your paint, he judged your paint, and he had a huge FOC tally list of dings if you didn't build the army as generic as possible. I am really annoyed that what I said had absolutely no impact - it was clear he didn't care. I used to frequent a shop across town, but I find the players at this store far more competitive, and I have made a number of friends there ( who by the way agree 100% with me, they just won't confront him.

How would you handle this? Should I just pack up and head to the old shop? I know I could get my friends to come to the other store to play, I just don't know if I want to do that or not.

I don't think I would be nearly as upset if he hadn't just dismissed it without discussion when I brought it up. He did, and I am. :(

He has become so polarized that some of the store players organized a 40k point apoc game while he was working and didn't tell him - he is making far more people tham me angry, and it makes me sad.

[gcsmith]

Move shop yes, Comp scores are a crap thought out by enemies to the game. Painting should be a seperate prize awarded at the tourney, best general should be about winning, after all tournements are about GAMING, having best painted win the best general is like making golden daemon players battle for best painted.

[Astral Platypus]

One vanguard vet squad shouldn't do that to you. Was there maybe something else about your army that did that?

Some of the comp score stuff I have seen gets based on # or % of troops in your army. Did this other guy go all out on that? Yes, I am aware how powerful guard armies can be like this.

There could be any number of things going on here. Maybe this store has a lot of IG product the owner wants moved.

If you think you did better than the other guy you may be right, but ask yourself what justification there might have been, even if it's not a good one, in your opinion.

[DarkLink]

This is the reason why I've never gone to a tournament run by the closes lgs to my hometown. They always have some #$%^& comp rules that I won't be bothered to deal with. Luckily my college town players dislike comp as much as I do.

If you want some advice, there's some good articles about this on 3++ is the new black. A couple of the guys there are from Australia, where apparently comp is all the rage. They have a lot of stuff on how to make a "fluffy" list that can still be competitive.

[gcsmith]

Shame that a fluffy BT army with crusaders would be penalised heavily :p

[Bean]

I was also at that tournament. To be fair, the comp requirements were all on a rubric that was posted ahead of time. I know I sat down and figured out how to squeeze as many of those comp points out of my list (without making it bad) as I could. That guard list got 14 out of 18 possible comp points. How many did you get?

I don't think they were very good comp requirements, and I don't really like comp requirements very much, but the TO in this particular instance did make it easy to make sure you got a reasonable number of points, and the comp points weren't a huge part of the overall score.

At least they weren't subjective. They were somewhat game-able, but it's not like people were looking at your Vanguard squad, thinking "that's cheesy!" and giving you zeros. I thought your vanguard squad was awesome. Like, five storm shields. Woo!

[Lerra]

The problem with comp is that it penalizes the old codices much more than the new codices, and it often penalizes fluffy or themed lists. A Space Wolves or IG player can look at that rubric and find a way to build a solid army list within that framework. A Necron player doesn't have many options and will have to take whatever he gets for comp. Fluffy/themed lists are also limited - there isn't much room to alter an all-Slaanesh list, or pure Deathwing.

[HsojVvad]

This may sound harsh, but first of all, Grow Up. You are playing with plastic toy soliders. It sounds like I didn't win, I am going else where.


When I first started going to my flgs, I was bringing hard as nails, tournament optimized lists. I didn't care if the models were painted - I was a competitive player. The manager and some of the players, over the last couple of years, have moved me to always painted, more fluffy builds. It is still fun, but I am still competitive.

Here you said it yourself, you are a comptetive player. So you got beat by another competivie player. So what is the big deal?



In his effort to push his perception of the game, our flgs manager has made the tournaments more and more comp based. I was cautiously OK with this - it was more than I wanted, but I accepted it.


Sorry I don't see
the problem here. I thought this is what you wanted, more competitive, since you bring "hard as nails" army as you just said yourself above.



The last tournament was the worst - I brought a DoA army at 1500 with a pimped out vv squad - a points sink kinda squad with 5 stormshields and a bunch of power weapons, but fluffy - all painted with a minimum of 5 colors, inked, washed, dipped, and based. Not the most gorgeous models ever, but well above tabletop.

I won 2 and lost 1. One of my wins was a 45 minute table of my opponent, the other was decisive.


I don't know what DoA is.



Apparently, painted isn't enough now. Even though my battle points were higher, I finished behind a semi generic mini leafblower guard list that was well painted. Did I mention that he only won 1 game?

Ok I agree with you here. It shouldn't matter about beautifully painted armies. It's about how many games you win/loose/draw. I hate when it comes to painting or how armies look. So I agree why you would be upset here. The only thing is, did you know about this before hand? If you did, then you did agree to it before hand so you should have know before hand this could and most likely happen. Still it sucks and I hate it.



I talked to the manager about how I found this to be a bit over the top - his build was a power build, mine wasn't. Both were painted and based to above tabletop. He said it is part of the game.

I don't get what you are complaining about. Didn't you just say in the begining of the game, you bring "hard as nails" lists? You play competively? So basically you were playing someone like you? So it's ok for you to do it, but not others? So next time you do the same thing that you use to do, but with a painted army.



I like the guys at this store, but I have a real issue with this. Asking for fluffy painted armies is one thing, but I think this is too much. I don't know how to handle it - I already brought it up and he was indifferent at best.

Sorry it just seems someone finally played like you, but you don't like being on the other end of it. Again, next time, bring a list like his. This is only a one time instance. Why are you making a mountian out of a mole hill if it's a one time thing. I say if this happened 3 or 4 times, then yes you have something to complain about, but only once? Come on, get over it, you lost no big deal. Rememeber PLASTIC TOY SOLDIERS you are playing with. You really upset over a one time event?



My snap reflex is to take my well painted guard list of doom from now on, take his petty comp hits, win all 3 decisively, and win the tournament. It would work a few times, and he would find a way to comp it out as well. This tournament your peers judged your paint, he judged your paint, and he had a huge FOC tally list of dings if you didn't build the army as generic as possible. I am really annoyed that what I said had absolutely no impact - it was clear he didn't care. I used to frequent a shop across town, but I find the players at this store far more competitive, and I have made a number of friends there ( who by the way agree 100% with me, they just won't confront him.

Why not? Do it. You are a competitive player, play to win. This is your play style after all.

As for the comment of talking to the owner of the store and he didn't care, then yeah, I agree with you, I would leave and never bother coming back. Do you have other places to go and play? So you have 2 options. Suck it up and play, or leave. Do you buy things at his store? After all if you don't buy anything there and play there, you play by his rules then. But if you do support this store owner, then talk with your WALLET and don't buy from him anymore because of him being a douch not listening to your or taking your comments with any heart.

I have stopped shopping at a store because the owner or people couldn't take any interest. Now they don't sell any 40K because there is no buyers now. So your Wallet speaks the loudest.



How would you handle this? Should I just pack up and head to the old shop? I know I could get my friends to come to the other store to play, I just don't know if I want to do that or not.

I don't think I would be nearly as upset if he hadn't just dismissed it without discussion when I brought it up. He did, and I am. :(

He has become so polarized that some of the store players organized a 40k point apoc game while he was working and didn't tell him - he is making far more people tham me angry, and it makes me sad.

Well remember I think your anger is justified. It's not over your opponent, but it's more of the store owner. Is this the first time he did this to you? It looks like he does this to others, so maybe if it happens one more time, I would say, "you just lost a customer and my friends as well, we are going to your competion from now on."

Remember it's a game, I too get too easily pissed off. Rememeber it's a plastic toy soldier game. ( a really expensive toy soldier game) This has more to do with the store owner than anything, so I say give it one more chance since you like to play there, but if the store owner is a dick and douche, just leave, he is not worth it at all.

[Inigo Montoya]

This may sound harsh, but first of all, Grow Up. You are playing with plastic toy soliders. It sounds like I didn't win, I am going else where.

Not at all. I win aplenty. I am upset that I did better than a player with a mini leafblower but finished BEHIND him.




Here you said it yourself, you are a comptetive player. So you got beat by another competivie player. So what is the big deal?
The big deal is I didn't get beat by him, my batle scores were BETTER than his. My composition was close, but his paint was better.






Sorry I don't see
the problem here. I thought this is what you wanted, more competitive, since you bring "hard as nails" army as you just said yourself above.
Do you even know what comp scores are? They have NOTHING to do with gameplay. They are for paint a composition.


I don't know what DoA is.


Ok I agree with you here. It shouldn't matter about beautifully painted armies. It's about how many games you win/loose/draw. I hate when it comes to painting or how armies look. So I agree why you would be upset here. The only thing is, did you know about this before hand? If you did, then you did agree to it before hand so you should have know before hand this could and most likely happen. Still it sucks and I hate it.




I don't get what you are complaining about. Didn't you just say in the begining of the game, you bring "hard as nails" lists? You play competively? So basically you were playing someone like you? So it's ok for you to do it, but not others? So next time you do the same thing that you use to do, but with a painted army. read the post - I USED to do that. My list was NOT a tournament quality build, it was a fluffy blood angels jump army.




Sorry it just seems someone finally played like you, but you don't like being on the other end of it. Again, next time, bring a list like his. This is only a one time instance. Why are you making a mountian out of a mole hill if it's a one time thing. I say if this happened 3 or 4 times, then yes you have something to complain about, but only once? Come on, get over it, you lost no big deal. Rememeber PLASTIC TOY SOLDIERS you are playing with. You really upset over a one time event?
did you even read the post? it is the first time I got hosed, but I haven't liked it all along. This was the last straw, not the first instance.




Why not? Do it. You are a competitive player, play to win. This is your play style after all.

As for the comment of talking to the owner of the store and he didn't care, then yeah, I agree with you, I would leave and never bother coming back. Do you have other places to go and play? So you have 2 options. Suck it up and play, or leave. Do you buy things at his store? After all if you don't buy anything there and play there, you play by his rules then. But if you do support this store owner, then talk with your WALLET and don't buy from him anymore because of him being a douch not listening to your or taking your comments with any heart.

I have stopped shopping at a store because the owner or people couldn't take any interest. Now they don't sell any 40K because there is no buyers now. So your Wallet speaks the loudest.



Well remember I think your anger is justified. It's not over your opponent, but it's more of the store owner. Is this the first time he did this to you? It looks like he does this to others, so maybe if it happens one more time, I would say, "you just lost a customer and my friends as well, we are going to your competion from now on."

Remember it's a game, I too get too easily pissed off. Rememeber it's a plastic toy soldier game. ( a really expensive toy soldier game) This has more to do with the store owner than anything, so I say give it one more chance since you like to play there, but if the store owner is a dick and douche, just leave, he is not worth it at all.

I spend a LOT of money there - I have 3 or 400 dollars worth of GK pre-ordered. I spend thousands on 40k. Literally. Pretty arrogant to ignore a good customer I think...


An earlier poster was there - who are ya / what did you play? I had good composition - I finished behind him over paint.

I do not care to not win - I have won enough for five people. Seriously. I just hate a powerbuild finishing ahead of a fluffy army because of paint. I hate the manager blowing my concerns off even more.

There are no other tournaments in the area. I guess what I can do is bring my well painted IG powerbuild to the tournaments and buy online. I don't mind paying the premium to have a place to play, but I do mind where he is taking the game since there is no competition. I can make hard lists and be nice about playing them. I just haven't because I respected his opinion of how he percieved the game. Now I find that he doesn't respect my perspective, so I guess it doesn't matter any more.

It makes me sad. I can have a blast and lose every game - I have done it. I would NOT have won the tournament - I lost to the winner game 1 - it isn't sore loser - it is principal. I am well painted and based, fluffy and I scored more battle points but I finished behind him.


On a side note - I have nothing against the guard player - he is a solid player and it is fun to play him. He did nothing wrong. Every player there was awesome, it is the scoring the gets me.

[HsojVvad]

If I were you, I take your pre-order and bring it to the other store, unless you already put money down.

I see where you are coming from now.

[Astral Platypus]

I spend a LOT of money there - I have 3 or 400 dollars worth of GK pre-ordered. I spend thousands on 40k. Literally. Pretty arrogant to ignore a good customer I think...


If he's that dismissive of your complaints and you spend that much money there, then find a new store. Exercise your power of purse and go elsewhere; in the Roman Republic they called it "voting with your feet."

The way he set up the tournament is less relevant to the discussion than the statement you made that I quoted. A lot of people see things differently about army comp than you, but that doesn't matter. Your game store owner should know that, and either cater to one side, the other, or both. If you aren't what he caters to then you shouldn't be his customer any more.

I didn't mean for that to sound condescending; I agree with you. Fluff and competitive play are both valid styles of play, as far as I'm concerned, just different forms of stimulation.

[wittdooley]

HsjoVvad.... I swear, on about 80% of your posts I can't help but be reminded of the response to Billy Madison's Puppy That Lost His Way story.

Inigo-- I'd move your money elsewhere if he won't give you a better explanation, and make sure he knows why. It's bogus.

Descent of Angels armies are really fun. It's a shame you got penalized, particularly since you got more wins. That's why Comp scores are stupid. If you win more, you should place higher.

[Necron2.0]

Well, it seems pretty clear to me what this guy is doing. He's rigging the game to either specifically disrespect you, or to favor someone else in particular. Frankly, this guy sounds like a total douche. If I were you, not only would I take my business elsewhere, but I'd try to convince as many people as I could to do the same, and I'd make a point of let this guy know it. If it were within my power, I'd do all I could to drive him out of business and run him out of town. He's obviously no friend to you, your community nor the game. He has no business being in the business.

[fuzzbuket]

- all painted with a minimum of 5 colors, inked, washed, dipped, and based...well above tabletop.
.

they key words there you seem to have done the minimum colours, dipped/washed and said ta-da
not well above TT
he may have been a douche BUT he sspent time on his models in what appears to be a 'fluffy/fun' tourney
ask yourself:
were other comp scores affected by me (e.g. was i not pleseant whilst i murderd his army in 45 mins, did you brag?)
what scores were affected by him (washe a nice guy?, did he offer 'fun' games? )
possibly he wasnt using a optimized leafblower whilst you were using a hypoer comp BA army?

SOULUTION: buy eldar, paint nicely, whomp his *** while being nice = WIN
moan,moan , moan= FAIL

REMEMBER NOT ARD BOYZ,NOT THRONE OF SKULLS : FUN TOURNEY

-fuzzz

p.s. people dont miss 1 customer as much as internetz haters think
p.p.s so your fluffy BA jump army was assault squads, sang guard, priests and captians, chaplins, libbys?

or was it vanguard spam
fluffy army = nice painted army with devotion to a theme
your army =/= fluffy
your army = BA optimized list with little time spent on it.

[Daemonette666]

I moved from one suburb to another 20 KM (about 15 miles to the them yokels) away from my old GW store.

The new suburb had a GW shop in the shopping center 8 KM away and I went there for a while. They gradually drove the regular customers like myself away by acting like gestapo butting in on our conversations about movies while we were painting. The rule of the store was if it is not GW and that does not cover old specialist games they no longer support, then no talking about it. Sure you could not bring in models that had parts from models kits or figurines made by other companies, but I brought in an old Milton Bradley/Citadel/ Games Workshop miniature of a Chaos dreadnought from the Space Crusade expansion, and was told to put it away.

I then went to the first GW store for a long time, and still go there from time to time. I even get my online orders delivered there, so I have an excuse to go to chat and play 40K with my mates there. They are less N**I like there about with rules limiting what we can discuss, but we can not bring non citadel miniatures into the store. Blood Bowl and other olld specialist game miniatures can be brought in occasionally, and they will order them from GW website for you.

My local hobby/ gaming store that has opened up in the last 4 months just 600 metres from home is one of the best stores I have been to. They allow any gaming system to be played, from WW II, Infinity, Warmachine/Hordes, 40K, magic the Gathering, and so on. I have been playing Warhammer Invasion, and Classic Battltech Card game there, as well a few games of the Classic Battletech board game. Just the other weekend we had a 40K 1500 point 2 day 6 match comp. I had the worst dice rolls ever, and in the one game where the dice actually rolled like they should (2/3 of them rolled up 3s - 6s), then my plans went well, and the enemy Veteran Space Marine had nothing left on the table. In most of the games, my lascannons, melta guns and plasma cannons either failed to hit /got hot, or failed to wound. causing my tactics to fail miserably.

Even Kharn performed miserably in one close combat killing half his squad, and then rolled 1s and 2s to wound. The enemy placed his wounds on storm shield assault troops and saved them all. With the subsequent enemy attacks and the follow up armour saves for being fearless, Kharn and his 9 berserker squad were killed by a 10 man assault squad led by a space marine chaplain. This is how it went for me for most of the competition, but I still won 2 games out of the 6 I played.

The organisers of the comp were impartial, ans even went to the point of not playing favorites, or penalising some of the winners because they used to work with them. I had to agree the games were fun, though I think the weird Scenarios they thought up were too unusual for most gamers, especially with players getting bonus points for certain things like having a scoring unit in the enemy's deployment zone, killing off the highest point HQ, and non HQ unit in the opposing army, reducing the enemy to break point 25% of the original number, and finally scoring more kill points than the enemy. These all gave +1 point possibly making it possible to reduce the effects of a loss. Since it was my first 40K competition, I did not perform well in this regard and placed 10th out of 14 people.

If you want to move, them move. I would. If you want to bring your mates along with you to another store, then do that as well. It will make the store perform less than it did before, and maybe even force them to either close down or face the fact that they need to change their management and customer service style.

As far as I can tell the store I left where they were strict on what we said is now performing below the bar, and many of the older gamers who frequented there have now moved to the GW store 20 KM away or the new store near my home.

The store is there to sell the games to you, and make you feel welcome and wanted. if they do not feel happy and contented to go there, then don't go there.

[SandWyrm]

If the guy's being a controlling douche, then stop giving him money and time. It's that simple. Every time you give him money or attend his events, you're telling him that you approve of what he's doing.

[dagonis]

I would say if you want to change stores, then you should do so.

As was touched on earlier in this thread, this is just a silly space man game. I try not to get too worked up about it. I have been hammed and cheesed in tournaments and I just let is slide. I figure if that person is willing to do x, y and z to win, then it is much more important to them than I.

As for your specific issue, I am not sure if I read this correctly, but was their a rubric posted outlining comp scores? If so, I would just work next time to get more ticks on the sheet for the comp aspect.

I don't personally agree with painting scores being a portion of a winning game play score, but if you have limited prize support, sometimes you have to optimize. Instead of top 3 best generals, 3 best painted, 3 best comp, etc you just have to lump them into one category. FLGSs don't have infinite money :(

Just remember, every store has its own microcosm community. You are a part of this, but you are not the sole voice. There is a chance that the other players at the store enjoy it the way it is, and that is their right. I know you mentioned other players are upset so that could be incorrect, but I don't know the size and make up of your local Wargaming community. The store that I play at has dozens and dozens of players and a ton of different cliques. We all mesh together, but it is known that some people(like my friends and I) like to play for fun and don't care about winning so much as having a great narrative battle. Others are the stab-your-own-mother to win types. We all have different wants and needs from our FLGS, so it is up to the owners to balance the needs of the community.

If you don't like it, buy elsewhere or online. There are a few wargaming companies that will never see a dime from me, so I strongly believe in voting with the wallet. I always try to temper any feelings about the hobby beyond enjoyment with the general idea of "I paint little plastic figures to have pretend space wars". When I think of it that way, the whimsy generally kills my "taking it to seriously" attitude.

[Daemonette666]

I tend to think that the comp gamers should receive a total score based on a total of how they performed in their games, i.e. win 15 pts, draw 10 pts ea, loss 5 pts.

Bonus points can be given if you kill off the enemy general with highest PV, Non IC unit with highest PV, have a scoring unit in enemy deployment zone, cause the enemy army to reach break point (25% of original number), or have a higher kill point value. Add +1 point for each bonus.

Your final score should be modified based on whether you had a balanced army (score x 1), a weak army list (score x 1.2), or a OMG Mummy do not hurt me power build army list (score x .8). In the case of a tie, then refer to the most congenial award, as this shows which gamers treat their opponents the most fairly and avoid rubbing their wins in everyone's faces.

Painting scores should be left to the extra prizes such as best painted army, and gamers should also vote on who was the best and fairest (most congenial award) aka who they liked playing against even if they lost to them.

This to me sounds like a fairer system, as those who take weaker armies will get more defeats, while the power armies should win more often, as long as their tactics and dice rolls were decent. The power armies who have more points have them reduced by 20%, the weak army players get their points boasted by 20%.

To work out if an army is a power build simply have a formula or guideline and a scale.

+1 for each named character.
+1 for each character over 180 points
a further +1 for each character over 220 points.
+1 if the character makes units scoring that normally are not
+1 if the character confers special rules to the army such as FNP, Furious Charge, etc.
+1 if you have any vehicles with AV 14 or costing more than 200 points (with upgrades).
+1 for each monstrous creature that has 4 or more wounds.
+1 for each HQ or elite unit you have in addition to the basic 2 HQs and 3 elites (this includes special units/models that do not count towards the FOC such as Summoned Greater Demons, Additional Heralds, Extra wolf lords,Tech Priests & Techmarines, Commissars, etc if you get them outside the FOC). Each codex differs but many offer additional elite or HQ choices above the normal amount.
+1 if you have less than 50% or your armies points cost as troop choices (elite choices, etc that count as scoring because of a HQ do not count towards this).
+1 if you have more vehicles and/or monstrous creatures in your army than infantry/ jump and bike units.

A rough score can then be worked out. If you score above a certain value, you are considered a power builder. score below a certain value, then are considered to have a weaker army. This would also modify the amount of power building in the competition. You could also set a level on the scale where an army goes beyond a simple power build and becomes the army from hell. Army lists in this range could be penalised by a x .6 modifier to their score. That would reduce their score by 30% evening out the final scores.

For example an army with Sanguinor + Dante both with honour guards, Corbulo + extra Sanguinary priests, 2 units of sanguinary guard, a storm raven, Furioso Librarian Dreadnought, Terminator Assault Squad, Landraider Redeemer, and an assault squad would be a power build bordering on the x.6 modifier. The total points cost would depend on the upgrades you give the units, however this army will likely cost more than most competitions allow - normally between 1500 and 1750 points. Thus it is a moot point, however it gives you an idea of what I mean about power builds.

Some gamers would argue that this makes it benefit the weaker armies, however it should even things out and make balanced armies the more common army, and most enjoyable to play with or against.

[gcsmith]

the whole problem with comp scoring is that it defeats the problem with a tournement, It forces you to pull your punches, The point of a tournement is to WIN, and so you should go with the BEST not the mediocre.

I know there are weak armies out their atm, i play tau, but we just need to suck up and win anyway, we still can its just slightly harder.

Another problem with the comp system is it brands people as Cheese or power gamer. All they are doing is using their codex. Its not up to people to brand other codex cheese. If you dnt wanna play their lists dnt go to the tourney or dont run it, just dnt penalise people who actually know how to write a list for their book.

[Bergermeister84]

So a friend of mine pointed this thread out to me and I thought I would come in and respond. I am the Imperial Guard player in question who kind of snuck into 2nd place at the tournament. First, I would like to say that I was really surprised that I got second place at the end. My record was 1-1-1. My first game was a draw, but I received almost all of the bonus objectives. My second game was a loss with no bonus or penalties. My third game was a outright win with with almost maximum points. My record wasn't perfect, but it wasn't as if I did horribly and maxed out on comp either.

Second, here is the rubric composition presented by the tournament organizer a month in advance:

* For each troops selection over the minimum (1 to 4).
* Each troops selection that is at maximum size (1 or 2). Chaos will earn this point if their troops are at their chaos number (Tzeentch 9, Khorne 8, Nurgle 7, Slaanesh 6) or the printed maximum. Imperial guard will earn this point for each platoon with two or more infantry squads, but not for veteran or penal squads.
* If Elite is present but not maximized (2). One or two choices will earn you this award.
* If Fast Attack is present but not maximized (2). One or two choices will earn you this award.
* If Heavy Support is present but not maximized (2). One or two choices will earn you this award.
* If HQ is not maximized (2). One choice will earn you this award.
* If the army has zero special (named) characters (2). Anyone with a name counts, including sergeant and vehicle upgrades.
* If the army has zero duplicate, non-troops selections (2). You can have one Leman Russ squadron with three tanks, but not two squadrons. One Terminator Assault Squad and one Terminator Squad are ok. One Dreadnought, one Venerable Dreadnought, and one Ironclad Dreadnought are ok. Two Devastator squads with completely different numbers and equipment is considered a duplicate.

Here was my list:

Company Command Squad with 4 Meltas and a Chimera
Full Psyker Battle Choir with Chimera
Platoon command squad with 4 flamers in a Chimera
Platoon with 3 squads on foot with power weapons and a commissar
3 Mortar Teams and 3 Autocannon Teams
Veteran Squad with Demolitions, 3 Meltas, in a Chimera
Veteran Squad with 3 Plasma in the Vendetta
Vendetta
Manticore
2 Hydras

I ended up with around 14 points. 1 for a third troop choice, 1 for a platoon, 8 for not maxing my HQ/Elite/FA/HS, 2 for no duplicates, and 2 for no named characters. My painting score was peer ranked to be 2nd overall which led to an additional 9 points. I should also say that everybody at the tournament scored maximum sportsmanship points through the whole event.

Now, I am not saying all of this to brush off your complaints about the tournament. I can understand your frustration that a person with a 2-1 record got ranked worse than a person with a 1-1-1 record. Furthermore, if you had a conversation with the TO/Store Manager after the tournament and got brushed off, I feel that you have every right to be upset. I think it would be a real shame to lose you as a player in our local tournament scene. You are an excellent sport and are a very good player. I personally didn't have any problem with you playing more competitive armies. In fact, I don't really agree with a lot of the fluff bunnies in town or on the internet. It seems like if it wins, it's cheesy, no matter how many little stories or painting details you add to make it a cohesive looking army. You cannot please everybody, as I am quickly finding out for myself.

No matter where you decide to play, best of luck. I certainly hope to see you across the table again sometime, no matter what army you play.

[pablowest]

If I were you, I take your pre-order and bring it to the other store, unless you already put money down.

I see where you are coming from now.

Hi. How much did it cost with that pre order?

[Brettila]

Apparently, painted isn't enough now. Even though my battle points were higher, I finished behind a semi generic mini leafblower guard list that was well painted. Did I mention that he only won 1 game?

I know your pain. I played in a tournament where I won all 3 games in gratuitous fashion. I also won 'Best painted army'. Yet, somehow I did not win the top prize; nor even the second prize... I only won a booby prize for the army. And I am just about the most reasonable player you could hope to face. I will let you move a unit you forgot, etc. So apparently those 'person I enjoyed playing the most' points really add up. The guys who got the prizes were guys I beat.