Force Weapons - Grey Knights

[Drew da Destroya]

Discussing the coming Grey Knights codex with a tyranid buddy of mine, and we weren't sure if the current hype of "Squad full of instant death" was really correct.

The wording from the Force Weapon entry in the BRB:


Roll to hit and wound as normal, allowing
any Invulnerable Saving throws the victim
might have. The Psyker may then take a
Psychic test to use the weapon’s power
against any one opponent that suffered an
unsaved wound by the weapon in that player
turn. The normal rules for using psychic
powers apply, and remember that a Psyker
may not normally take more than a single
psychic test per turn.

The main important passage, as far as we can see, is this: "The Psyker may then take a Psychic test to use the weapon’s power against any one opponent that suffered an unsaved wound". The "psyker", in this case, would be the Squad (I assume... haven't read the Brotherhood of Psyker rules in person). So you could take a Psychic test to instant death one opponent who suffered a wound.

At least, that's my interpretation. Tear me down?

[gcsmith]

I hope thats true.

[Lemt]

The "Brotherhood of Psykers" rule in the GK codex specifies that a single test will activate ALL weapons in the squad. :/

[gcsmith]

Hes not denying that however since the squad counts as a single psycher then the squad as a whole can only use the ID on one Model


The Psyker may then take a
Psychic test to use the weapon’s power
against any one opponent that suffered an
unsaved wound by the weapon in that player
turn.

[Lemt]

"If the test is passed, all wounds caused by the unit's Nemesis Force Weapons that phase inflict Instant Death."

From the "Brotherhood of Psykers" rule. So... yeah. Pewpew and stuff.

[Drew da Destroya]

"If the test is passed, all wounds caused by the unit's Nemesis Force Weapons that phase inflict Instant Death.".

Hmm, that's both unfortunate and not really how Force Weapons normally work.

Thanks for clearing it up, man.

[gcsmith]

well at least I have the EC

[DarkLink]

Yeah, this is explicitly covered in the GK codex:

"[Take a psychic test] If the test is passed, all wounds caused by that unit's Nemesis Force Weapons that phase inflict Instant Death."

[Connjurus]

As a Chaos Space Marine player I was, at first, a teensy-bit worried about how my close-combat units would be working against Grey Knights. Not so much anymore - their close-combat is kind of a direct reflection of the way they work - small numbers of highly effective models goes into an equally small number of highly lethal attacks. The key word here being small number - even if you give them all Falchions (ouch on the points!) they will have, at most, 3 attacks each. So I will still be striving to get into combat with these fellows. ;) It'll be fun to play against my friend with my Berzerker-heavy/Abaddon list.

[Lemt]

As a Chaos Space Marine player I was, at first, a teensy-bit worried about how my close-combat units would be working against Grey Knights. Not so much anymore - their close-combat is kind of a direct reflection of the way they work - small numbers of highly effective models goes into an equally small number of highly lethal attacks. The key word here being small number - even if you give them all Falchions (ouch on the points!) they will have, at most, 3 attacks each. So I will still be striving to get into combat with these fellows. ;) It'll be fun to play against my friend with my Berzerker-heavy/Abaddon list.

Purifiers have 2 base attacks. Assuming a unit of 10 Purifiers with 6 Halberds (and 4 Psycannons so they're not as good in melee), you'll be hit with 12 attacks before your initiative turn even if you assault. Plus if they pass a Psy test, every one of your models will take a savable wound on a 4+ before anyone even hits. So let's say you attack with 10 zerkers. You'll lose 4-5 before you even get to attack. Then you'll kill 1-2 of them, and you may lose another guy from the purifierss with Psycannons.

TL: DR Even if you assault, you'll proably lose in melee vs Purifiers. And those same Purifiers that dominate the assault phase can dish out 16 S7 Rending shots per turn.

That unit of purifiers costs under 300 points BTW, and can be made scoring.

[Tynskel]

that's just purifiers. Shoot them with Deffy the Defiler from Miniwargaming. And you are done.

[Lemt]

that's just purifiers. Shoot them with Deffy the Defiler from Miniwargaming. And you are done.

Yeah, that's pretty much the best plan. GKs are expensive units, so every mini you kill via shooting puts quite a dent in their army. Just know that you'll be in trouble if you plan to win in the assault phase.

[DarkLink]

\The key word here being small number - even if you give them all Falchions (ouch on the points!) they will have, at most, 3 attacks each.

Actually 4 attacks on the charge. Falchions grant +2 A total, one from their special rule and one from being a pair of CCW.

[Lemt]

Actually 4 attacks on the charge. Falchions grant +2 A total, one from their special rule and one from being a pair of CCW.

There's some controvesy with that. I think the pair of Falchions give +2 attacks as you say, but I'd wait for the FAQ/Errata just in case.

[DarkLink]

Well, some people don't like it, but the rules themselves are clear. A pair of Falchions are 2 CCW, thus you get +1A. Separate from this, they grant +1A, for a total of +2A. You can't argue that you get a pair of Falchions, because basically every single time it mentions them it specifically states they are taken as a pair. And there's no justification that the +1A mentioned in the Falchion rules somehow denies the +1A for having 2 CCW.

So, yeah, it may get Errataed. But until then you get +2A.

[karandras]

Yeah. We debated this one locally at the FLGS. Based on the RAW, I would have to agree that the Falchions special rule grants a +1 attack bonus. As they are a pair of CCW, they would grant another +1 bonus via the BRB. So 3 attacks base on regular GK and 4 on the charge. Justicars and Purifier Squads would bump that up another 1 attack as they are base 2. Brutal stuff really.

5 Purifiers with a Hammer and a Psycannon can still dish out 15 PW (FW) attacks on the charge, plus 4 more standard attacks for the Psycannon, and in case anything is still alive, 3 Thunder Hammer attacks (also FW). Considering these can all be at Str.5 (Str.10 for the TH) with Hammerhand, should wipe most squads that don't strike first.

Shoot em!!!