Forge World army lists

[Grabula]

How legal are the army lists in the Imperial Armor books? Are they tourney legal? I've seen a couple of fun lists that don't seem to be too off balance but it would require some extra purchases. I've never seen anyone play one nor honestly have I seen anyone use a forge world unit or model outside of the occasional apocolypse game.

[hisdudeness]

As always, ask the TO. They decide what is allowed or not. Otherwise, they are just as legal as any other list.

Forgeworld lists are not over powered. Most are very specialized and have huge weaknesses. The rest add a little flavor to a codex.

[Grabula]

I think any specialized list will likely have weaknesses but I'm typically one of those players who likes to play themed lists whether they're winning lists or not.

[aztex3400]

In general they are not allowed. Even in most "normal" play, most folks don't use them, but always ask. I think that this is one of the main weakness of FW

[SotonShades]

In general they are not allowed. Even in most "normal" play, most folks don't use them, but always ask. I think that this is one of the main weakness of FW

I wouldn't say they aren't allowed in general; every tournament I have been to in the last 6 years has allowed FW lists, even FW models in normal lists since the updates for IA 1 & 2 came out. FW models used to be an automatic no-no as they were often overpowered, despite being expensive. However in recent years FW has worked much more closely with the GW development team to tone down their rules to match them into the exhisting rules for the game. As hisdudeness pointed out, they are no longer the normal codex list with a few over powered units in, but very different and highly specialised lists that add a slightly different flavour to exhisting armies. Sure they do have some quite powerful/effective units, but their speciality does often give them quite glaring weaknesses that can be quite difficult to work around/easy for your opponant to exploit.

Check with your TO. They are usually ok with them, especially as you will rarely see them on the top table though I suspect that is more because people are less used to using them so haven't honed and optimised their list quite as much. Personal opinion though. Out of curiosity, which list/book where you thinking of taking? I'm a big fan of the Armoured Battlegroup list myself :)

[I NoSe]

SotonShades is right about those weaknesses. I play both DKoK and Elysians and both have a big weakness. The Death Korps lack mobility while the Elysians run all the risks that come with having the option of deep striking your entire army, oh not to mention no tanks.

[hisdudeness]

Be careful, there is a diffence between using the models as 'count as' and using the FW rules/lists. Most people have no problem with the models being used and would be hard pressed to find a TO that would not allow them.

The rules are a different matter. I have seen very few TOs allow FW rules/lists. The stigma that FW rules are overpowered risks driving away pure tournament players that generally don't like surprises.

I run Elysian and Red Scorpion armies. I carry Codex Marine and IG list versions for people that are just dead set against FW, but I rarely ever have to pull them out.

[The West Coast Knight]

This again??
I have 4 full Forge World armies Death Korp, Elysians.Chaos Renegades and a Dred Mob
And now starting a Tyrants Legion
All are legal fun and as it says on the front cover of all the books now OFFICIAL EXPANSION.
If someone wants to refuse to play me because I use models created and produced by Games workshop but just in a different material then plastic or metal I will find someone else to have a game with.

[justsam]

my club generally doesn't have many FW models outside of apoc, though we will be running a badab war campaign over the summer for everyone to get the taste in their mouth. after that, who knows? personally, as a casual player, i wouldn't mind facing one of these lists, as long as i knew about it beforehand

[murrburger]

I wouldn't mind as long as you asked me beforehand and let me read your book for a bit. : ) (I haven't read many FW rules because the books are quite expensive)

Most things are overcosted, but there a a few 'offenders'. (Achilles and Dreadnought Drop Pod)

I just wish they would release more Non Imperial/Non Ork/Non Tau things. I'm excited for the new Eldar stuff, and might pick up the upcoming book.

[Lerra]

It's kind of regional I think. Most tournaments around here allow limited FW rules (certain units are disallowed), and they'll allow FW army lists with permission. For casual play, some people don't like playing against FW stuff, but most people don't care as long as you're not abusing the rules.

[The West Coast Knight]

I wouldn't mind as long as you asked me beforehand and let me read your book for a bit. : ) (I haven't read many FW rules because the books are quite expensive)

Most things are overcosted, but there a a few 'offenders'. (Achilles and Dreadnought Drop Pod)

I just wish they would release more Non Imperial/Non Ork/Non Tau things. I'm excited for the new Eldar stuff, and might pick up the upcoming book.

FW world have done a great job with Chaos and Eldar and others what is it you are after cause the best selling armies sure seem to be covered very well?

[thecactusman17]

"Legal" is a hard thing to determine. For normal games, it's whatever you and your opponent agree on. For tournamnets? I've NEVER seen a FW list that was considreed legal, even in the local RTTs. The simple reasoning is two-fold:

1) Some armies benefit tremendously from Forgeworld lists. In addition to new rules, some FW books have changed point limits on vehicles and equipment in a way that would be beneficial to the player over the standard rulebook. Example: Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters can take Rhinos, Immolators, and Exorcists at cheaper point costs more in line with 5th edition codexes like Guard. Remember, in a recent fairly sreious attempt at tournament power ranking, 3rd edition Sisters were still considered in the top half of power rankings even with massive segments of their codex being out of date. Reducing the cost of transports and some of their most valuable tanks would be pretty nasty.

2) Unlike standard 40k codexes which you can easily consult a normal player over or look at a store copy to understand, not too many people play with the Forge World rules or books. Coupled with the lack of easily available reference books in stores and you run into a very basic issue: the ability for players to prepare for and understand Forgeworld/IA rules.

There is one more reason: some Forge World sets are very powerful, moreso than would normally be acceptable in a random 40k game. Which isn't to say that they are apocalypse units, for example, but there are times when a game can very much feel like one of the players bought a win.

[hisdudeness]

I would like to point out that War Games Con allows FW lists/models in some of the games. But will not see them in a GT.

[egorene]

The lists are as legal as you wish them to be .

The lists are very nice , but every one has one weakness or some more .
Give them a try and maybe you like them .

Vraks , Badab War lists are cool
Elysians are wow

And by the way Forge World minis are beautiful

[murrburger]

FW world have done a great job with Chaos and Eldar and others what is it you are after cause the best selling armies sure seem to be covered very well?

More Dark Eldar and Ordos type stuff, mostly. I'm pretty biased. :cool:

Some Necron stuff, too. I guess.

[steelmage99]

This again? These threads are always a bunch of people NOT asking the question they really want answered. Most questions fall into three categories;


1. "Are Forgeworld lists/units tourney legal?"

There is no such thing as "tourney legal". As always the TO decides what is legal at any given tournament.
There is no unified ruleset governing what is "tournament legal".


2. "Is Forgeworld official?"

Yes, Forgeworld is an official expansion in line with Apocalypse, Cities of Death, Spearhead and Planetstrike.


3. "Can I use Forgeworld units without my opponents consent?"

This is often the question people have the most trouble formulating. Strange really, as it is pretty straightforward.

The short answer is "no".
The slightly longer answer is "Forgeworld is an expansion, and just like all the other expansions, you decide with your opponent whether you want to play one of those.
Nobody shows up at game-night, ask an opponent for a game of 40K and then throw down a Spearhead or Apocalypse formation without coming to an agreement with the opponent beforehand.
Asking; "Should we play with Forgeworld units/lists?" is just like asking; "Should we play a game of Planetstrike?"

Getting sore if the opponent answers; "I would rather play a regular game of 40K" to either question is simply childish.

Some people might have made Forgeworld armies and feel a right to be able to play those. This is no different from having gathered several Apocalypse formations and feeling a right to be able to play those.

Overpoweredness (is that a word?) doesn't even come into this. Forgeworld is an official expansion and you and your opponent chooses whether to play or not.

[SotonShades]

I completely agree with steelmage on this, the only possible exception or extention to such being a bit more of a local choice. My gaming group have decided (fairly informally, but it's never been questioned) to treat the FW lists as if they were codicies. In short we can play the FW lists without asking our opponants permission, because that is what we are used to doing. All of us can bring them as we have the books and the models, but we all also have codex lists and armies as well, so we can really mix things up.

That said, if I'm playing someone outside of my usual gaming group, I would ALWAYS ask my opponants permission before using a FW list (and usually have a codex list on hand on the rare occurance they say no).

[Bitrider]

Just incase this horse isn't quite dead yet:

In GW sponsored events such as 'Ard Boys, etc, only Codex armies are allowed. When you are just playing non tourney games, you do need to ask your opponent if they mind a non-Codex unit in the game.

My two cents.


Greg


This again? These threads are always a bunch of people NOT asking the que
stion they really want answered. Most questions fall into three categories;


1. "Are Forgeworld lists/units tourney legal?"

There is no such thing as "tourney legal". As always the TO decides what is legal at any given tournament.
There is no unified ruleset governing what is "tournament legal".


2. "Is Forgeworld official?"

Yes, Forgeworld is an official expansion in line with Apocalypse, Cities of Death, Spearhead and Planetstrike.


3. "Can I use Forgeworld units without my opponents consent?"

This is often the question people have the most trouble formulating. Strange really, as it is pretty straightforward.

The short answer is "no".
The slightly longer answer is "Forgeworld is an expansion, and just like all the other expansions, you decide with your opponent whether you want to play one of those.
Nobody shows up at game-night, ask an opponent for a game of 40K and then throw down a Spearhead or Apocalypse formation without coming to an agreement with the opponent beforehand.
Asking; "Should we play with Forgeworld units/lists?" is just like asking; "Should we play a game of Planetstrike?"

Getting sore if the opponent answers; "I would rather play a regular game of 40K" to either question is simply childish.

Some people might have made Forgeworld armies and feel a right to be able to play those. This is no different from having gathered several Apocalypse formations and feeling a right to be able to play those.

Overpoweredness (is that a word?) doesn't even come into this. Forgeworld is an official expansion and you and your opponent chooses whether to play or not.