Plasma vs Melta for IG

[Iceman]

I keep seeing lists online with lots of plasma handed out to IG veterans or command squads. In my experience, everytime I hand a plasma gun out I also hand out a death sentence. More importantly, the death sentence typically gets carried out the first time I fire. I know I can add carapace armor and a medic but for the total points cost, it seems that meltaguns are a much better buy. When I am not using them to kill MEQ infantry, I can also use them to kill tanks.

Is there something I am missing?

[Lemt]

Plasma can fire at a longer range if you don't move, or Rapid Fire for more volume of shots if the target is nearby. But yes, some of your dudes will die.

[AngelsofDeath]

Yea Rapid Fire, longer range, and you are betting on the BS 4 to be able to hit more often. Rapid fire plasma is a marine killer for sure.

I think the benefits and choice will depend on the mission role that you choose for your vets. If you can get them into melta range with 2 or 3 of them and have a juicy target like a Land Raider and destroy it you will more than double your points cost of that unit. If you choose to hold an objective with that unit, then Plasma and even a Heavy Flamer could come in handy. The hard part to swallow is that if the plasma gun goes BOOM!!! the weapon has cost more than the Vet firing it. Good luck to ya...

[weeble1000]

I have a rocky relationship with plasma. I have plenty of plasma models and I've used them in plenty of lists, but every time I do, I always end up declaring that I hate plasma and that I'm not going to use it anymore. Then when I forget how horribly plasma treated me, I wind up using it again...and getting burned.

For the point cost, I don't think plasma is worth it, for me at least. The best part about plasma is AP 2. IG have plenty of high str. weapons, but not many that have a low AP and can be relied on to hit what you shoot at. Plasma does exactly that, but it is costly and has a tendency to blow up in your face.

I hate getting burned by plasma, especially when I pay 15 points for it, so I don't take it. I just don't like the inconsistency. However, plasma usually gets its job done on the table. Even if you lose a few plasma guys, a unit of three or four plasmas putting out 6-8 shots that hit on a 3+, wound on 2+, and force an much more preferable invulnerable save is usually worth the utility when taking out elite infantry.

Plasma is also useful in popping low AV vehicles, but if there were better targets on the table, I'd let my autocannons handle that job.

Now melta has its uses too, and it is 5 points cheaper. You have to be closer to use it, which sucks, but it causes instant death in T4 models, wounds on a 2+, denies armor saves, and denies Feel No Pain as an added bonus. So it is also useful in taking out elite infantry. The big drawback is the range. At 12 inches, you are usually looking at an assault the following turn, especially since you probably haven't put out enough fire to take out what you want to get rid of. Plasma can allow you to get in a long range volley and a rapid fire before your lines get hit, but if a dedicated elite assault unit is allowing you to shoot it twice before it gets into assault, your opponent is probably doing something wrong anyway.

I like to use melta as an in-your-face vehicle killing tool (melta vets, DS storm troopers) and a defensive ace in the hole. Melta used in a suicide attack is really less survivable than plasma, but it serves the roll of dropping high AV vehicles. I like to keep some meltaguns behind my main body of infantry as a backup against the odd drop podded CC dread, DS terminators, or any other highly armored assault unit that shows up right in your face.

[Iceman]

Rapid fire just increases the chance that your guy is dead, so really all that is left is the longer range. I haven't found that to be a good trade off. Especially when you factor in that there may be a cover save. I find vanilla Leman Russ tanks to be the best marine killers over-all and they are much harder to kill.

I guess I was just wondering if there was something that I was missing about the rules for plasma that meant the IG were a little more survivable shooting them than I realized. The only reason I was thinking that is due to the number of lists I see that includes them. After playing a number of games where I passed out plasma guns to veteran squads or command squads I decided that my opponents really didn't need me to help them kill my guys and now no longer use plasma unless it is on a vehicle. I just wanted to make sure that I hadn't missed some rules understanding.

[Rapture]

Strength 8 on the melta guns means causing Instant Death on plenty on nasty marines too. I play with four plasma guns on my space marine command squad and sometimes consider switching to melta, but the higher shot output is worth it against terminators and the bigger tyranids.

[MaltonNecromancer]

J'deteste plasma guns rules-wise. J'adore the aesthetics of them. I tend to go with plasma cannons on whatever vehicle can mount them to avoid the "Gets Hot" rules. If I was up against lots of Terminators, that's when I'd mount plasma vets, but even then, I'd probably not bother. They're just too risky, and ultimately never seem to make their points back to me.

It's always a shame more vehicles don't mount them. A Land Raider with a Hurricane Plasma Array would be both an awesome conversion, as well as genuinely terrifying.

[Morgan Darkstar]

Whats with the french? isnt that still treason here in the UK? jk :D

personaly i go with melta over plasma simply because i roll one's with plasma

[MaltonNecromancer]

I love the French :) Best horror films in the world.

Plus, "det-ess-TAY" has so much more emphasis than "det-ESST". Sounds so much more emphatic.

[dcrabb]

I have been playing IG for about 7-8 months and have gradually moved to including more plasma into my units. They are excellent SM killers and the I have found the risk to my troops minimal. One trick I have learned is to roll the to hit dice for each plasma gunner separately. That way if you roll two ones on a rapid fire you only Get Hot on one guy (does that sound a bit sick?) instead of two (even sicker).

If you look at the Mathhammer you'll see what I mean.

Take a CCS with 4 x plasma vs one with 4 x melta. The plasma gets to shoot at 24 " and rapid fire at 12" while the meltas only get one shot at 12" or less. They both cancel out feel no pain. Here are the numbers.

Use a CCS with a 5+ armor save (no 'pace or medic)
Round 1 - MEQs within 24" but not 12"
Plasma CCS fires 4 shots gets 2.68 hits = 2.25 wnds/kills, Gets Hot equals .64 overheats, or .32 wnds = .11 dead IG.
Meltagun CCS sits and waits
Score end of Round 1
Plasma CCS 36 pts of dead MEQs (16 pts per marine), 2.75 pts of dead plasma gunner
Melta CCS 0 pts dead MEQs, 0 pts of dead IG

Round 2 - MEQs within 12"
Plasma CCS fires 7.89 shots gets 3.945 hits = 3.3 wnds/kills, Gets Hot equals 1.26 overheats or .63 wnds = .42 dead IG
Melta CCs fires 4 shots gets 2 hits = 1.68 wnds/kills, no Gets Hot equals no dead IG
Round 2 score
Plasma CCS 52.8 pts of dead MEQ, 10.5 pts of dead IG
Melta CCS 26.88 pts of dead MEQ, 0 pts of dead IG

Round 3 - there is no round three because the remaining MEQs assault and squish the CCS. The CCS plasma costs 110 pts. the CCS melta costs 90 points.

Total Score from shooting
Plasma CCS - 88.8 pts of dead MEQ (an entire combat squad?), 13.25 pts of dead IG plasmagunner (.6 of one guy with a plasmagun)
Melta CCS - 26.88 pts of dead MEQ (less than two marines), 0 pts of dead IG

So in this scenario with either CCS wiped out in assault the kill to killed ratio for the IG is

CCS plasma - .8072
CCS melta - .336

Over time the benefit of plasma guns will greatly outweigh the drawbacks. There will be the occasional game where you will fry yourself (I've had that happen) and there will be others where you will decimate MEQs and march on to sweet victory (I've had that happen more). I definitely go with plasma except for my meltavet vehicle hunting squads.

[Tynskel]

Why do you care if your man dies from plasma? He's an imperial guardsmen, and should be honored to be given a relic of the crusades!

Meltas and Plasma have different roles in warfare of 40k. You should not concern yourself with the deaths of your own men, but about how to apply the firepower of such weapons.

I almost always give my sgts in my marines plasma pistols. They also typically have a powerfist-- that's a 70 point 1 wound model that can kill himself before killing anyone! Do I care that he might die? No! Because this is war, and I expect to take casualties, even from friendly fire! However, that plasma shot is usually an automatic kill, and is also useful for side armor pot shots. To me, that enhanced firepower makes all the difference when coming across large powerful enemies. And this thing is as many points as the rifle, and has not nearly the firepower!