Black Templar experimental update

[Bluesfart]

After the latest Space Marines codex was released and the jump from 4th to 5th edition, I was really inspired to make a homebrew update to the Black Templars. There was a lot of changes as a result of 5th edition (some vows are useless, some are too powerful) that changed the Templars in ways that I was uncomfortable with (though I certainly win a lot more), and I was very jealous of the new vanilla gear (especially the Storm Shields!). I wanted to try some new things that strengthened the fluff and game-play themes of the Templars, and also made them a bit more balanced.

Now after hearing rumors that updates to the DA, BA, and BT are all in the works I've sort of lost my inspiration. I was hoping that if I can get some feedback here, I might refuel the desire to complete it ( I'm a game designer and would love to have it as portfolio material ). There are a few kind of out-there changes including Command squads as troop choices and Inquisitors as elites (and differing from the Daemonhunters rules) and I'm not sure if keeping the existing zeal rules is what's best for the future of the Templars, so let me know if you have an opinion.

It's very rough still, but honest criticism is greatly appreciated on all aspects including formatting and organization.

http://www.bluesfart.com/Black%20Templars%20Home-Dex.pdf

[RealGenius]

As a Black Templar player myself, I'm always very, very, VERY wary of people wanting to do updates. My position has always been this: "If you want 3+ Storm Shields, play Vanilla Marines."

But here's my take on your update:


Get rid of all the DH stuff. It doesn't belong in the BT Codex.
Get rid of all the new stuff you added. Exterminator Cartridge, Assault Spear, etc.
Never, ever should a BT army have wargear that give a psychic power ("Consecrated scrolls") [I almost had to stop reading at this point.]
I don't like your shotgun rules. There are tons of shotguns in the different books-- pick one of those instead of making your own.
I like the current wording of Righteous Zeal better than your new wording, since it references a standard move in the rule book.
Why does the Marshal carry the Holy Relic and not a Chaplain?
I think you did a decent job on pricing, and a great job compared to what people normally do.
The EC should not have a Storm Shield. He already has a Relic Blade (equivalent, which is 2 handed), and I'm not sure why he got another wound... he's definitely under-costed.

Minor things I noticed: a lot of the terminology you used doesn't match the normal Codex terminology: bases sizes, "Infantry Equipment". And pg 6 is blank for me, except for your URL.

I like your vows, but it would take a lot of playing to make sure the points are right, especially with optimized lists. You've changed a lot of other stuff, so that would make it harder to test.

That's just a few things from glancing at the first part.

[Bluesfart]

This is excellent, and I appreciate your frankness. All of it is useful, and I will take it into account if I get back to the material I have here. There are a few things though where I want to clarify what my intentions were:

The Witch Hunter/Daemonhunter stuff in there was just an attempt to create an excuse to have a psyker. I think the no whirlwinds, no scouts, no devastators is all very characterful but no psykers feels like there are too many drawbacks compared to other chapters (especially when I think even just a support psyker would be a lot of fun). Fluff wise the explanation was that Inquisitors often follow the Templars carefully because of their many infringements on the rules set down in the Codex Astartes and as a result are called on to participate in battles as a last resort. What I don't like about all of this though is that I have to re-write a lot of a seperate codex inside a different re-written codex and add a ton of wargear. It was only done because of the rumor that there will be no allying of different codecies in the future. I'm not sure if it's the best way to achieve what I want so I'm leaning towards agreeing with you on removing it.

The Marshall had the holy relic as an equivalent of the chapter master's orbital strike abilitiy. Having the Emperor's Champion, Marshalls/Castellans, and Chaplains makes it challenging to give them each a unique and useful purpose. In 4th edition I always used 2 chaplains, and in 5th edition there is no point to chaplains. This is something I was hoping to change in thes list.

Emperor's champion is extremely powerful currently at taking out grunts, but not very useful at taking out other Heroes. Hopefully I didn't forget to write about it in the wargear, but his shield and sword only work when he's fighting against a hero, otherwise he's just a 3 wound grunt. I'll see about what else I can do to fix this, but my intention was to encourage him to match his role in the fluff. I'm happy you like his vows though, but I agree that it will be difficult to give them a point value. I'd like to give him more than 3 as well, but I moved on to other things instead.



Thanks for your feedback RealGenius, I'm really happy to have someone take a serious look at it. I do want to play-test these ideas someday, but I wanted to have them all pretty solid first and get a lot of positive feedback before I think it's worth the time.

[rogaldorn]

I agree with genius. But the emperors chapion originally doesent have a two handed weapon, its a single handed. But the emperors chapion should remain unchanged, his special ability is the vows which i like what you have done.
other comments:
-25 points for a rhino? yeah ill take 20...
-35 points for a razorback?
-I dont know why you are avoiding using orbital bombardment, the entire chapter lives on crusade fleets, it would be perfect fluff.
-The Dread character is so cool. They have a picture of a dual close combat dread in the codex but you cant take one! I like this but I dont understand the point of the servitors.
-agree with Genius on taking out the DH stuff. Black templars should never have psykers. but I think they should at least be able to ally with them.
-The way the templars hierarchy works, there would be no sergeants. initiates rank up to sword bretherin. Though it would be cool to have a "sword brethrin" as a leader
-no lighting claw terminators?????
-helbrecht giving the army stubborn is a little too much, if you kept the fearless in combat rule, there really wouldnt be much of a point to stubborn. and holy crap, furious charge on any unit he joins!!?? no wonder you made him 250 points.

The black templars codex doesent need too much of a change, I think you went a little extreme on this one. but i like most of it.

[DarkLink]

I like the Emperor's Champion Vows. They're all cool but not OP, like the "everyone gets preferred enemy" one they currently have.

I will agree there are some issues with some of the points values. 25pt rhinos, 80pt chaplains? Every other SM armies chaplains are 100pts, and that's a fair price for them. 35 pt rhinos are already cheap as heck, the don't need to be cheaper. All in all, I have to say that if a unit in your home rules has a real-game equivalent, use those point values. That means 35pt rhinos and 100 pt chaplains.

[Bluesfart]

thanks so much for the advice guys, especially on point costs. I may have made some mistakes with the math, but the tanks were all so cheap because they came naked (no smoke launchers or other gear). I suppose though I don't need to keep fighting the new codex formats though.

The dreadnought's servitors were supposed to be carrying the weapons he used in life, I thought it would be characterful and good for ablative armor on such a fragile-for-it's-price investment. Originally they had servo arms instead of weapons, but I decided that was too convenient.

I'm working on a really thorough redo of this (without the formatting for convenience sake) now that the space wolves dex is out. It's pretty fun to see some of the things I was already planning show up in the spacewolves codex (Logan Grimnar giving an extra attack to nearby models once per game just like holy relic and Ragnar giving furious charge to any unit he leads like I did with Helbrecht). It's great to be able to contrast the wolves and vanilla and pick and choose ideas from either. I see a much more polished BT update already on here that looks fantastic already, but I'm going to keep at mine for the fun of it.

[Bluesfart]

Any opinions on these special characters? I'm worried about point costs for both. FYI "crusade shield" is a combat shield that gives 5+ invulnerable save instead of 6+.

They are Damascii a hybrid techmarine/commander and Draco an anti-psyker commander:


Castellan Draco - Champion of Vinculus
Castellan Draco served as one of the sword brethren under Marshal Ludolus in the Vinculus Crusade. Draco personally fought and defeated the corrupt inquisitor Lord Vinculus but was horribly injured in the battle. As a reward for his valor, Draco was promoted to the position of Castellan and given both the defeated inquisitor’s sword and an ancient suit of artificer armor. Draco’s body has since been rebuilt with extensive bionics but he continues to harbor greater animosity towards the witch over all other enemies of the emperor.

WS 6
BS 4
St 4
T 4
Wo 3
I 5
A 3
Ld 10
Sv 2+/5+i

Cost: 220

Unit Type: Infantry, Unique

Unit Composition: 1 Castellan Draco

Wargear: artificer armor, crusade shield, plasma pistol, master crafted power sword, frag grenades, krak grenades, holy orb of antioch

Special Rules: Rites of Battle, Sword Command, Witch Slayer, Independent character, and they shall know no fear, Righteous zeal

Rites of Battle – All models in the black templar army can use Draco’s leadership instead of their own for all morale checks.

Sword Command – Any army that includes Draco is allowed to take one unit of sword brethren that does not count towards their total number of elites.

Witch Slayer – Any army that includes Draco receives the abhor the witch special rule as normal, but can ignore the effects of any psyker ability on a 4+ instead of a 6+. However, Draco and any unit he joins must always zeal towards the nearest enemy psyker unless affected by unmatched zeal.





Steward Damascii
Damascii is a Techsmith who was temporarily chosen to lead his crusade after the loss of his Marshal in battle. Damascii ceremonially accepted the responsibility as the most veteran member of the crusade, but chose the title of steward to reflect his temporary role of preserving the throne until a true replacement is chosen.

Ws 5
Bs 6
St 4
T 4
Wo 2
I 4
A 3
Ld 9
Sv 2+ / 5+i

Cost: 190

Unit Type: jump infantry, unique

Unit Composition: 1 Steward Damascii

Wargear: artificer armor, jump pack, servo arm, crusade shield, bolt pistol, Machinaar, frag grenades, krak grenades, melta bombs, signum

Special rules: blessings of the omnisiah, Rites of Battle, tank hunter, electro-seers, Independent character, and they shall know no fear, Righteous zeal

Signum – any one model each turn can re-roll a failed to-hit roll during shooting if the unit is joined by a techsmith (including Damascii)

Machinaar – a master crafted power sword with integrated one time use meltagun

Rites of Battle – All models in the black templar army can use Damascii’s leadership instead of their own for all morale checks.

Electro seers – All techsmiths (techmarines) and their servitors get the tank hunters special rule

[Atrotos]

Castellan Draco should just make Sword Brethren 'scoring'. This would give him army changing properties that make him more interesting. Also you mention bionics so why not a T 5 or something for this guy?

Master of the Forge shouldn't get Rites of Battle - that's a Marshal thing.