You should play a real army?

[eagleboy7259]

I play demons... If you think you know what this is about then you can probably skip the next paragraph and just tell me whether you agree or disagree.


Alrighty, I play demons. The other day I was in more local store and we were doing what I assume was probably going on in stores all around the country -> talking about Grey Knights, debating how screwed Demons are, and playing a couple games. I had just got done playing a Vanilla SM guy when he dropped the comment that "You should play a real army." It basically ended with him telling me that Demons require no tactics, its all luck, and deep striking the entire army is just lame. :mad:

So are Demons not a "real army," or is that guy just full of it? And should I go to a more generic army build for my next army?

[Necron2.0]

I know nothing of demons and have never played against them, but let me guess. You beat him, right?

[Lane]

LoL

Someone playing Marines bad mouthing an army because it doesn't require much skill to play.

[chromedog]

He was playing marines? And he said YOU should play a real army?

Pot, calling kettle. Pot, calling kettle.

Pshah! Noob.

He does know that marines (as in the generic space type) aren't real, either? Right?

[I NoSe]

Deep Striking is lame? Crap, and I just bought IA8 to start my Elysians.

[Cursed13]

Clearly the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Daemons need just as much skill and tactics to play as much as any other army. They even need more tactics than normal to combat them. I don't even play daemons and I know they can be a vicious army when played with the right amount of patience, contemplation and aggression.
It's a real shame there's not enough daemon armies in my area. The conversion potential for them is staggering. There's only two guys I can think of who really run daemons, and they're usually put on quite a show. I've never gotten to face them, they're usually playing the other tournament guys for practice. I'm just the painter and casual general.
Thing is, everyone is gonna bash other armies. It's the "whatever is familiar is correct" mentality that Humans suffer from. You'll even see it in this thread. An army is only as tactical and powerful as the player who can grasp the abilities of their soldiers.

[blackarmchair]

I would say that Daemons are one of those "finesse" armies we all hear about. Given the unorthodox deployment, general weakness against heavy armour, the general slow nature of many of the choices not to mention the BS going on with the new GK codex Daemons are by NO means an auto-win.

Newer players tend to see Daemons as an easy to play army simply because there are so many heavy-handed anti-infantry units in the Daemon codex and most new players have no idea how to respond to daemon deployment and get stomped.

I get the exact same comment from newer players when I assault their entire army on turn 2 with my battlewagon Orks.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

they are all "real" armies, this person is just being a whiney little bugger. He/She apparently doesnt like playing against unorthodox tactics/armies. I mean, com on he plays vinella space marines, and he is telling you to get a real army? I mean nothing against SM, but sometimes i swear they are GW's love child, and i find them wholly uninteresting.

[Wolfshade]

Demons are a real army, and you should play them however you like, whether you build a big fluffy list or try and exploit every option in the codex.
I think most people start of with marines as they are very forgiving 3+ save can counter bad tactics, though having said that I still play my BAs. A deep striking army is not lame, I have deep striking land raiders :), yes it requires luck, but what else is there in a game which uses dice to determine outcomes.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Daemons are a Real army, don't listen to this rage filled idiot. being that he's playing Vanilla space marines, i'd tell him to play a less boring army, like Dark eldar or Orks or maybe even tau. ;)

[dannyat2460]

ive just competed in the Yorkshire Open and all three games i was drawn against were deamons like its been said before deamons are rather a rare sight so was rather shocked yet annoyed at the fact, shocked as you never see deamons and here i am 3 of them in a row <insert joke about busses>, annoyed as id taken a Blood angel army designed to take down armour and as we know not much armour in deamons lol I did finish 3rd so not too fussed but to go back to the main point.

Deamons are an unconventional army but by no means a noob army or not a real army, its just people arnt used to having to fight them

[MaltonNecromancer]

How old was he? If he's in the 11-14 age bracket, then he's arrogantly regurgitating what he heard the big boys saying. If he's older, he's go no excuse. Sweeping generalisations mean nothing. Daemons are a tricky army to play, and require significantly more skill than other armies to win with consistently. They have a slightly greater emphasis on luck perhaps, but not overmuch.

Ignore this idiot, and let him wallow in his own ego like the cretinous oxygen thief he is.

[Lerra]

If we're allowed to declare that armies aren't "real armies", then I'd like to take this opportunity to declare that Grey Knights are not a real army, and land raiders don't exist.

[eagleboy7259]

How old was he? If he's in the 11-14 age bracket, then he's arrogantly regurgitating what he heard the big boys saying. If he's older, he's go no excuse. Sweeping generalisations mean nothing. Daemons are a tricky army to play, and require significantly more skill than other armies to win with consistently. They have a slightly greater emphasis on luck perhaps, but not overmuch.

Ignore this idiot, and let him wallow in his own ego like the cretinous oxygen thief he is.

We're all college aged guys for the most part, and we're definitely not a WAAC group by any means. Its not the first time I've had people hating on the demons for being Null Deployment, Eternal Warriors and all Inv. saves.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Daemons are a Real army, don't listen to this rage filled idiot. being that he's playing Vanilla space marines, i'd tell him to play a less boring army, like Dark eldar or Orks or maybe even tau. ;)

Woop Woop, who wants to be boring :L?

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

We're all college aged guys for the most part, and we're definitely not a WAAC group by any means. Its not the first time I've had people hating on the demons for being Null Deployment, Eternal Warriors and all Inv. saves.

Like everyone has said, just ignore him... He snexhould know better especially if he is college age :|. But next time show him the error of his ways :L

[Skragger]

If we're allowed to declare that armies aren't "real armies", then I'd like to take this opportunity to declare that Grey Knights are not a real army, and land raiders don't exist.

And pluto is no longer a planet!

[Drew da Destroya]

The Daemons can't be a real army. They don't wear Power Armor... duh. This is Marinehammer 40Marine, didn't you know that?

[justsam]

i've just recently started up a tzeentch daemon army. i'm 3-4 with it now, and i can heartily state that any daemon variety is not for beginners. being a vanilla SM player (salamanders) as well, i believe that one is just as real and viable as the other.

(to be fair, my marine dice don't require the same veneration and supplication as my daemon dice)

[Nosmo75]

I think I see where the generalising oik was coming from, in that Daemons do rely heavily on luck, in the same way Skaven and Orcs and Goblins do in Fantasy due to the unique deployment of Daemons. However, this does not mean that even if all of your Daemon units land precisely when and where you want them you will win automatically, that is determined by your own skills as a general (and a little bit more luck of the dice for saves and such).

In fact, being forced to deepstrike your army instead of starting with units on the board positioned where you want them is more of a disadvantage (and very characterful one, at that) than an advantage.

[Grabula]

lol, well first, in defense of all the marine players out there, I play marines and have never felt like they're an "autopilot" or easy win army. They're undeniably forgiving as armies go but I find my Orks actuallly easier to play then my marines.

That said, "real army" is subjective right. Obviously some people feel space marines aren't a 'real' army but I'd disagree. In fact, if someone were to tell me I should play a 'real' army, I'd probably have to have a thourough discussion about what that actually meant. Is it an army who's codex is so hopelessly behind the power curve that winning a game is always a real treat? Is it any army that's not smothered in a 3+ armor save? Is it an all metal army? Maybe an all plastic army? What's a not real army?

honestly I find these comments are mostly made on the net, or by people who have some reason to be bitter. Out of curiosity, did you win your game against this person? Losing can sometimes bring the worst out in people unless he was making an oiffhanded and mostly in jest comment.

I think my only response would have to be "Maybe I should just start playing real players?"

[Revarien]

I just had a tourny over the weekend: 1 guard player, 1 salamanders player (vanilla with Vulkan), 1 daemonhunter (a last hurrah!), 1 sister of battle player (myself), 1 vanilla marine player, 1 blood angel, 1 tau player, 2 chaos daemon players, 2 eldar, 2 dark eldar, and 3 chaos space marine players...

1 of the chaos daemon players brought it home with tourny grand champ. The two chaos players WOULD have faced off against each other, if not for the tau player... he just eviscerated the other daemon player (they got paired on a relatively open terrain map due to random roll and the tau player just castled up and went to town when they popped in).

As far as I'm concerned... Daemons are as 'real' as any other army. I'm not discounting the skill or the eye or the luck of the player... I just think that people overlook them due to their dual-status between fantasy and 40k.

Then again, I had someone call me 'gutsy' and another call my army 'antiquated at best' (dunno if that counts as 'you're not playing a real army' or not) when I showed up rolling the nuns with guns...

[Skragger]

Here's my two teef.

If you're going to crack open an Assault on Black Reach box, and just play marines right "out of the box" then no, thats not really a 'real' army. If you take the time to research, be creative, and make your own unique army. Thats a real army. Same goes with any other army out there.

When I picked up Orks, I just opened boxes, built boyz, and sent them out to die. I didn't feel like I was really playing an army rather than an assortment of motley boyz. So I took some time to create a really crappy back story, put a paint job together, be more coherant in what I was looking at with my army, it felt more "alive". I'm not saying go fluff-nuts, but spend some time finding out who your army is, what it is, and where its going, and then you have a real army.

Now my army has kustom konversions, a backstory, even its own special karakterz (Skragger Gro-Head Gobbla, and Big Mek Wotzit Kheeze), their own name (The Gob Sprawlaz), logo, and paint job. It feels much more "real" than when I started, and its more entertaining for people to play against.

Again, just my two teefs worth!

[eldargal]

Maybe it was a highly cerebral joke based on the fact that the daemons are made of solidified warp stuff, quite literally the stuff of nightmares.:rolleyes:

[eagleboy7259]

lol, well first, in defense of all the marine players out there, I play marines and have never felt like they're an "autopilot" or easy win army. They're undeniably forgiving as armies go but I find my Orks actuallly easier to play then my marines.

That said, "real army" is subjective right. Obviously some people feel space marines aren't a 'real' army but I'd disagree. In fact, if someone were to tell me I should play a 'real' army, I'd probably have to have a thourough discussion about what that actually meant. Is it an army who's codex is so hopelessly behind the power curve that winning a game is always a real treat? Is it any army that's not smothered in a 3+ armor save? Is it an all metal army? Maybe an all plastic army? What's a not real army?

honestly I find these comments are mostly made on the net, or by people who have some reason to be bitter. Out of curiosity, did you win your game against this person? Losing can sometimes bring the worst out in people unless he was making an oiffhanded and mostly in jest comment.

I think my only response would have to be "Maybe I should just start playing real players?"

I think the whole null-deployment aspect of demons is what really upset him. I mean eternal warrior & inv. saves are one thing but an army which by its own rules never has to follow the 2 troops & an hq deployment for that one mission really seems to get to people. It's also somewhat limiting in expanding your gameplay through battle missions, apoc, city fight, etc. Demons feel pretty incompatible.

Anyway heres a quick breakdown of the lists and game.

My 1500 pt list:
Fateweaver
3 Flamers
4 Bloodcrushers (bare bones w/ no upgrades)
6 Horrors w/ Bolt & Changling
6 Horrors w/ Bolt
5 Plaguebearers
5 Plaguebearers
5 Bloodletters w/ Fury
Soul Grinder
Soul Grinder
Demon Prince w/ MoT, Bolt & Gaze

His list (from memory)
Terminator Librarian w/ Null Zone & something else
5 Assault Terminators w/ TH & SS
Dreadnought w/ MM, HF, Pod
10 Tactical Marines w/ Rhino
10 Tactical Marines w/ Rhino
10 Devastator Marines (combat squads) w/ TL Las Razorback
Land Raider Reedemer

Capture & Control - an end game objective grab by the horrors on turn 5 ends up giving me the game 1-0.
The game was going his way for the most part, with the exception of both combat squads of Devastators getting wiped off the board on turn 1.

[Mauglum.]

Hi all.
I play several real armies.
2nd Regiment 7th Amoured Division , Operation Crusader, November 1941 .For example.;)

Compared to historical games there are no 'real armies ' in 40k , just made up fictional ones....:D

IMO some people take 40k far too seriuosly ...

TTFN