How "petty" should we be about rules?

[AngelsofDeath]

I played in my game store local monthly tourny yesterday and actually made it to the #1 table in the last round. There had not been any rules questions at all through out the day and the players were great, no complaining or negative attitudes. ( Setting the feel of the day)

The player across from me pretty much had the Blood Angels Razorback/Predator spam. So his army consisted of 9 tanks total. During his movement phase I noticed that he would move one tank then go ahead and try to move another and in the process would go back and move the previous one. Kinda like jockying them around like in a parking lot, making sure they had clear lines of fire and so forth. I have ran into this myself when playing alot of vehicules, there isnt enough room to move them around considering terrain, etc....

So I went back later and looked at the rules and on page 11, first paragraph it states "Once you have started moving a unit, you must finish its move before you start to move another unit. You may not go back and change the move already made by a previous unit"

I guess how petty about rules, and rules like this should a player be? I didnt get the win (placed 3rd), but I think that I really kinda let em slide a bit.

[Rapture]

There isn't anything petty about following the rules. He was essentially cheating; violating the rules to get an advantage. Whenever I play against someone and they do something like this I just politely ask if they know that what they are doing is against the rules. Most of the time the admit that they didn't, so I show them the rule and we continue playing. Everyone leaves happy.

I came in 2nd in my LGS's last tournament because the TO decided that my Tau should play mechanized Space Wolves in a City Fight mission (some crap where troops claimed each ruin they entered, seriously unbalanced if playing against combat squadded marines) instead of a normal, random BRB mission. I know how it feels to be cheated out of a win.

[BuFFo]

I guess how petty about rules, and rules like this should a player be? I didnt get the win (placed 3rd), but I think that I really kinda let em slide a bit.

People tend to do one of two things in 40k. Marginalize or freak out about rules. Both are wrong.

The game has rules. We play by the rules.

Your opponent, whether he knew it or not, was breaking the rules that govern the game. By calling people petty for telling someone like your opponent to stop moving his parking lot around does harm to the hobby as a whole.

The answer is simple. Tell him to stop doing that. Inform him of the rule in case he not familiar with it, and to play accordingly. There are no emotions or feelings attached to this.

Welcome to the tournament scene. :cool:

[steelmage99]

I think you should politely bring it to your opponents attention.

Should your opponent retort with "It's only a game", "Don't be petty" or something similar, simply smile, nod and tell them that you totally understand how they feel, but it is the rules of the game and you would be a lot more comfortable if they would be kind enough to keep it (no going back to a previously moved unit) in mind next time.

Just keep it polite and calm.

[DarkLink]

Just whatever you do, don't say to your opponent "please do that legally". I had a guy do that to me at 'ard boyz when I made a mistake in how I was moving a unit into assault. I couldn't think of a more insulting way if implying your opponent is intentionally cheating while pretending to be polite and innocent about it.

[AngelsofDeath]

All good advice for sure, thanks. Rules are rules and people should follow them.
But it kills me when the easiest rule to follow is your ruler/tape measure. It never ceases to amaze me when people do not follow correct distances... 6inches is 6inches...not 6 1/2.... And I find it hard to say something without feeling like I am splitting hairs, just like removing the tanks...its just a game....and usually Karma comes around.

[gcsmith]

Wat annoys me most is when person 1 has unit such as




A
A A A
AAAA
AAA
AAAAAAA

and moves the top one 6 inches forward and has unit like AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I mean seriously dude, u measure ach guy seperate not first one and move other up to him. Ive seen models move like 10" that way but not moaned as i already have a rules lawyer reputation

[JxKxR]

Just whatever you do, don't say to your opponent "please do that legally". I had a guy do that to me at 'ard boyz when I made a mistake in how I was moving a unit into assault. I couldn't think of a more insulting way if implying your opponent is intentionally cheating while pretending to be polite and innocent about it.

The only way I know how to not piss people off is to act like I don't know and just ask "Is that how you do it? Could you show me in the book?" if they start moaning and griping I just say "I just want to know the rules and be sure." If they are still moaning about checking the rules then they are either cheaters or just butt munches either way you need not carry on with being polite and then it's time to bust heads! At least you tried.

[AngelsofDeath]

I guess when you are playing and you move a model touch it once, move it the correct distance, and do not touch it again. And as far as saying anything it might be hard to judge a reaction no matter how polite you try to be.

[Mycroft Holmes]

We should follow the rules when ever possible.

It always annoys me that when my opponents would like to ignore the rules that work against them.

Why is your fun (winning) more important than my fun? If we just follow the rules as much as we can then there is very little to get annoyed at (except dice.)

Mycroft

[DarkLink]

Follow the rules. The rules are there to make everything run smoothly. Houserules are fine, too, so long as you and your opponent fully agree on them, and you keep them consistent.

Ignoring rules is kinda like lending a bunch of money to friends. Ideally, it works out fine and they pay you back and everyone gets along. But if someone decides they don't like the fact that you ignored the rule that means you can't consolidate into a new combat and they insist that you follow the actual rules, and then you get mad at them for being uptight, and soon everyone's mad at each other...

Yeah, just avoid that whole situation and follow the rules. And if you're going to use houserules, write them down, and actually give them some thought. Don't just say "I think IG are overpowered, so they're not allowed to do X". Think about your houserules and their consequences, agree with your opponent on them, then write them down.

Really, it's following a single set of rules that's important. GW has provided you with a set. If you want to add or modify them, go ahead. Just make sure those modifications are clear and concise.

[Tynskel]

You can be as petty as you want to be.

Just don't be a Git.

[ArchonPhelps]

ask politely and if they are being a jerk about the rules then handle it the nicest way you can. I tend to use my surroundings to my addvantage.

For Example: if you can ask your oppenent to step outside to talk about. When yall are away from most of the people stand up wind and pepper spray him in the eyes. Or . . . if he doesnt want to step outside then most stores are cramped inside. Makes it harder for them to run and hide so taser instead until he agrees. Either way you might be asked to leave but you win in the rule fight between each other.

[AngelsofDeath]

ask politely and if they are being a jerk about the rules then handle it the nicest way you can. I tend to use my surroundings to my addvantage.

For Example: if you can ask your oppenent to step outside to talk about. When yall are away from most of the people stand up wind and pepper spray him in the eyes. Or . . . if he doesnt want to step outside then most stores are cramped inside. Makes it harder for them to run and hide so taser instead until he agrees. Either way you might be asked to leave but you win in the rule fight between each other.

I take it sportmanship is not an issue here? :)
I know I will face this player again and when I see him doing this I will nicely refer to the rules book and point out this oversite on his behalf. It might actually throw his game off. Then if he does it again I will try the tazer!!

Talked to a few other players tonight at the store and more than a few have noticed the same tactics by said player.

Thanks again for the input. Enjoyed the post and its development over the day.

[ArchonPhelps]

Well you can use the ole Ricky Bobby tactic and say "With all do respect, . . ." That makes it all better

[Skragger]

I lov ethe idea of being civil about it. At my local FLGS we have a rule "if the dispute gets out of hand, the players get out of the store". As soon as the decebel level goes above normal speech the store owner comes over and solves the dispute for them. Listens to both sides, and then makes a judging. And he's not afraid to ask players to leave to cool off for a few minutes either.

As for general pettiness, its not wrong to ask a player to follow the rules, depending on the situation. In that situation, I'd do what you did and let it slide, because its generally a fairly minor thing that isn't going to tip the balance of battle in a game-changing way. If it was something more serious, like moving 7" instead of 6, then I'd rather bring it up, but even then I'd just say "can we just quick remeasure that? I just want to be sure". I think the nature of the offense should determine the level of pepper spray / tazering.

[AngelsofDeath]

As for general pettiness, its not wrong to ask a player to follow the rules, depending on the situation. In that situation, I'd do what you did and let it slide, because its generally a fairly minor thing that isn't going to tip the balance of battle in a game-changing way. If it was something more serious, like moving 7" instead of 6, then I'd rather bring it up, but even then I'd just say "can we just quick remeasure that? I just want to be sure". I think the nature of the offense should determine the level of pepper spray / tazering.

This is a game of inches and I agree that some occurances will not change a battle. I have even let someone shoot when they forgot too, and or assault when they forgot as well. It depends on the class/character of the player. I have also played in a tourny and had a person tell me sorry when I forgot to assault with a unit that of course would have done major damage. But then in his excitment he went right to shooting and forgot to move his own units. Then when he tried to go back and move I said sorry you already shot. Needless to say he got really mad and just quit....karma is your friend.

As far as tazering...this would be only a warning. And if he did it again I would pull the trigger.

[Skragger]

This is a game of inches and I agree that some occurances will not change a battle. I have even let someone shoot when they forgot too, and or assault when they forgot as well. It depends on the class/character of the player. I have also played in a tourny and had a person tell me sorry when I forgot to assault with a unit that of course would have done major damage. But then in his excitment he went right to shooting and forgot to move his own units. Then when he tried to go back and move I said sorry you already shot. Needless to say he got really mad and just quit....karma is your friend.

As far as tazering...this would be only a warning. And if he did it again I would pull the trigger.

Just a minor shock as a warning.. a "shot across the bow" kind of deal eh? Don'tcha just love ragequitters?

[AngelsofDeath]

Just a minor shock as a warning.. a "shot across the bow" kind of deal eh? Don'tcha just love ragequitters?

Yea, was back when Speed Freaks had their own list. Had my Boss and Nobs in assault range of his Blood Angels HQ and was about to mess em up. Forgot to assualt, and when I said "Oh I forgot to move them into assault he told me too bad" He then got all excited started to shoot off his Baal Predators and Land Speeders he had at my trucks and boyz and then said "I forgot to move", " I was like too bad you already shot and have went into the next phase" He got mad called the tourny judge, explained what happened in both players turns and the judge laughed and said it is what it is. I really had to try hard not to laugh myself.

[Skragger]

Yea, was back when Speed Freaks had their own list. Had my Boss and Nobs in assault range of his Blood Angels HQ and was about to mess em up. Forgot to assualt, and when I said "Oh I forgot to move them into assault he told me too bad" He then got all excited started to shoot off his Baal Predators and Land Speeders he had at my trucks and boyz and then said "I forgot to move", " I was like too bad you already shot and have went into the next phase" He got mad called the tourny judge, explained what happened in both players turns and the judge laughed and said it is what it is. I really had to try hard not to laugh myself.

Kinda makes me glad I don't play competativly. They say you never hear the good stories, but I hear so many stories of negative things, that is must still be a fairly large portion. I used to play Magic The Gathering competativly.. man.. that was a fierce crowd. Warhammer games can get heated with beer and pretzel matches, I wonder what its like when the pressure of a trophy looms above you...

[AngelsofDeath]

Kinda makes me glad I don't play competativly. They say you never hear the good stories, but I hear so many stories of negative things, that is must still be a fairly large portion. I used to play Magic The Gathering competativly.. man.. that was a fierce crowd. Warhammer games can get heated with beer and pretzel matches, I wonder what its like when the pressure of a trophy looms above you...

I use to go around to the Rogue Trader Tournaments way back when GW was pushing those as the extra events beside all the GTs and I have to say that I have met some great gamers. I use to travel as far as Houston, San Antonio, Wichita Kansas, Kansas City, Dallas area and everywhere in between to play in these events and generally people were polite and proffesional. It tends to be the local game stores where people get an attitude.

[Skragger]

I use to go around to the Rogue Trader Tournaments way back when GW was pushing those as the extra events beside all the GTs and I have to say that I have met some great gamers. I use to travel as far as Houston, San Antonio, Wichita Kansas, Kansas City, Dallas area and everywhere in between to play in these events and generally people were polite and proffesional. It tends to be the local game stores where people get an attitude.

its tough up here in Canada, we don't host nearly as many tournaments as you yanks do, and what we do host is kinda half-baked. We've never had a grand tournament (at least, not one I've heard of). We used to have our own Games Day, but they've cancelled that and moved it to Chicago (citing "its central north america), great, its still a 10+ hour trip for me, instead of where they used to hold it in Toronto). Even 'Ard Boyz places are tricky to find up here.

[pablowest]

I played in my game store local monthly tourny yesterday and actually made it to the #1 table in the last round. There had not been any rules questions at all through out the day and the players were great, no complaining or negative attitudes. ( Setting the feel of the day)

The player across from me pretty much had the Blood Angels Razorback/Predator spam. So his army consisted of 9 tanks total. During his movement phase I noticed that he would move one tank then go ahead and try to move another and in the process would go back and move the previous one. Kinda like jockying them around like in a parking lot, making sure they had clear lines of fire and so forth. I have ran into this myself when playing alot of vehicules, there isnt enough room to move them around considering terrain, etc....

So I went back later and looked at the rules and on page 11, first paragraph it states "Once you have started moving a unit, you must finish its move before you start to move another unit. You may not go back and change the move already made by a previous unit"

I guess how petty about rules, and rules like this should a player be? I didnt get the win (placed 3rd), but I think that I really kinda let em slide a bit.

Yeah right. I think it that for short, it is a touch move game. I hope someday you will win. :D

[Tynskel]

its tough up here in Canada, we don't host nearly as many tournaments as you yanks do, and what we do host is kinda half-baked. We've never had a grand tournament (at least, not one I've heard of). We used to have our own Games Day, but they've cancelled that and moved it to Chicago (citing "its central north america), great, its still a 10+ hour trip for me, instead of where they used to hold it in Toronto). Even 'Ard Boyz places are tricky to find up here.

yeah, but....


You guys have Miniwargaming!

[Huge_eldar]

There are only 2 things that really bother me in 40k. People that don't know the rules and people that don't know how to measure..

I remember at a FLGS playing a game where a guy refused to believe inv saves could be taken on dang terrain tests. Or how I played a necrons player who got utterly pissed when he had downed necrons fall back with the rest of the squad, then get up within 6" of my squad to prevent them from re-grouping, he literally said "this is coning from this supposed FAQ your talking about that I've never read" !! I was like come on man how is I my fault you don't know your amies rules.. You have an iPhone lol look it up now..

I'm a very very lax person with a lot in 40k, launch an assault, then realize you forgot to shoot one unit, no worries. Start to shoot and forget to move a squad, no worries. I'm very lax about it because normally were playing friendly and its all good. But I kinda have 0% tolerance for you not knowing the basic rules and your Amy rules. It's the first step to the game. And the movement thing I find is black and white, either players have problems with it forever or they don't. Our group is split 50/50 and I hate how I feel like a jek asking people, "was that 6"?"

[razcalking]

I came in 2nd in my LGS's last tournament because the TO decided that my Tau should play mechanized Space Wolves in a City Fight mission (some crap where troops claimed each ruin they entered, seriously unbalanced if playing against combat squadded marines) instead of a normal, random BRB mission. I know how it feels to be cheated out of a win.

Umm... Space Wolves can't Combat Squad. If he did, then you REALLY got cheated out of a win.