Shooting with Rapid Fire Weapons

[AngelsofDeath]

I have been getting ready to come back to play 40K in competative tournaments and figured I would read over the rule book to make sure I know wtf I am talking about and I came across a small paragraph on Rapid fire weapons.

On page 28 of the rule book 4th paragraph down it says " Models that shoot with rapid fire weapons in the Shooting phase cannot assault into close combat in the ensuing Assault phase". And then in the diagram bellow that is says RAPID FIRE WEAPONS (firer may not assault)

If I am reading this correctly, I would think it means if you shoot any weapon that is considered "Rapid Fire" then you can not assault. Not that if you Rapid Fire a rapid fire weapon then you can not assualt. Maybe there is an FAQ that I missed. Any input or thought would be appreciated.

[Lerra]

Right. You can't assault after firing any rapid-fire or heavy weapons (unless you have Relentless).

[AngelsofDeath]

Wow... I am a marine player myself and cant even begin to tell you how many times I have seen other marines fire thier bolters and then charge into assault.

[DarkLink]

Rapid fire weapons alway shoot twice if you are within 12" of the target, once out to the maximum range of the weapon, and you may not assault afterwards (normally).

[UltramarineFan]

Unless the weapon fired is a pistol or 'Assault' or the firer has the relentless special rule then you can't assault if you shoot. So rapid-fire weapons, whether you shoot one or two shots, prevent the firer from assaulting.

[Drew da Destroya]

Are you sure those marine players aren't firing their pistols and then charging? I think all marines come with Bolt Pistols these days.

[AngelsofDeath]

Yea I am sure they were bolters. One time the person had nilla marines with bolters, moved within 6in, shot the bolters just once, not twice and assualted.

[DarkLink]

Unless the weapon fired is a pistol or 'Assault' or the firer has the relentless special rule then you can't assault if you shoot. So rapid-fire weapons, whether you shoot one or two shots, prevent the firer from assaulting.

You can't fire as a pistol. You need a separate weapon that is a pistol in order to do that.

And with a rapid fire weapon, if you are within 12" you must fire twice. You can't choose to fire once. There are no separate modes of fire for rapid fire weapons. You shoot once at your full range, and you shoot twice if you are within 12".

[blackarmchair]

I'm liking all the "newbie" questions in the rules forum.

It clarifies things like this that people often play incorrectly and it means that new people are getting into this game.

Good stuff.

[DadExtraordinaire]

You can't fire as a pistol. You need a separate weapon that is a pistol in order to do that.

And with a rapid fire weapon, if you are within 12" you must fire twice. You can't choose to fire once. There are no separate modes of fire for rapid fire weapons. You shoot once at your full range, and you shoot twice if you are within 12".

IIRC the vanilla marine as a bolter and a bolt pistol which any marine will know when going into Assault fire your PISTOL and not your bolter.......

[Demonus]

same damage though, so if they were equipped with pistols and bolters, it would be perfectly fine, they just said they were firing the wrong thing.

then again, some people just dont know/forget/make mistakes.

[AngelsofDeath]

I appreciate all the input. With dealing with 3 different rules editions and over the past 12 years + of playing I get things mixed up at times. Thanks again for all the input and answering my question.

[DECOY]

You can't fire as a pistol. You need a separate weapon that is a pistol in order to do that.

And with a rapid fire weapon, if you are within 12" you must fire twice. You can't choose to fire once. There are no separate modes of fire for rapid fire weapons. You shoot once at your full range, and you shoot twice if you are within 12".

I may be incorrect but I believe the rules state you may fire up to twice if within 12" range. Regardless, if your within 12" why would you NOT want to fie twice. As a side note always ask your opponent for verification of what their units are firing. Their has been numerous times when I've caught guys "mistakingly" shooting bolters and trying to charge.

[weeble1000]

This isn't exactly relevant to the original question, but I think it is worth noting that Rapid Fire is on a model basis, not a unit basis. So if 10 of my models have rapid fire weapons, 5 of them are within 12 inches of the target, and the unit hasn't moved, I'd get 15 shots.

When you throw First Rank, Fire, Second Rank Fire! into things, it can seem like you're performing mathematical chicanery. I've had people think that I'm cheating or bending the rules on several occasions. I can't blame folks though, with this many variables the game gets complicated when you're trying to finish a 2 hour game. For example:

Unit of 20 models, 16 of them have LOS, 7 of them within 12 inches, the unit did not move, passed a Leadership check for FRFSRF, 16 shots for every model, all of them get +1 shot from FRFSRF, and 7 get an additional shot from Rapid Fire for a total of 39 shots. By the time you say all of this some people are like, "what the heck are you talking about?"

[chromedog]

I may be incorrect but I believe the rules state you may fire up to twice if within 12" range. Regardless, if your within 12" why would you NOT want to fie twice. As a side note always ask your opponent for verification of what their units are firing. Their has been numerous times when I've caught guys "mistakingly" shooting bolters and trying to charge.

You ARE incorrect.
5th edition for rapid fire specifies that RAPID FIRE weapons ALWAYS fire two shots at 12" or less and one at between 12" and maximum range (provided firer has not moved or has the relentless rule or some other rule which allows it to fire on the move to full effect).

The ability to fire one shot at 12" or less from a RAPID FIRE weapon and charge was from a previous edition and is no longer true. You cannot fire less than TWO (2) shots at 12" or less with a rapid fire weapon any-more.

No matter if you fire one shot (long range) or two (short range) if you fire a rapid fire weapon at all, you may not charge (unless relentless or some other rule)

This is why marines now have bolt pistols as well.
It's the ability to fire a single shot (at the same S and AP of a bolt gun) before charging.
It may have the same S and Ap of a bolt gun, but it is NOT a bolt gun.

[AngelsofDeath]

Thanks for the input and clarification. As far as marines it is just a play on words of bolter or bolt pistol since they have both and players generally shot once and then assault in. There are a few other armies that have rapid fire weapons that they could shoot and assault afterwards, those I will have to watch for.

[lobster-overlord]

I sprang this on someone a few weeks ago. I used my devastator's bolt pistols and then charged a unit of wraiths and took them out.

[AngelsofDeath]

I sprang this on someone a few weeks ago. I used my devastator's bolt pistols and then charged a unit of wraiths and took them out.

Yea I give the Sgt a Stormbolter for +3 points as well.

[Culven]

If I am reading this correctly, I would think it means if you shoot any weapon that is considered "Rapid Fire" then you can not assault. Not that if you Rapid Fire a rapid fire weapon then you can not assualt. Maybe there is an FAQ that I missed. Any input or thought would be appreciated.
This confusion is exactly why I try to discourage players from using the colloquialism "rapid firing" to describe firing a Rapid Fire weapon at a target within 12 inches. Too often, players think that it is an optional mode of fire when the only option is whether the weapon is fired at all. Once this decision is made, the Rapid Fire weapon rules will dictate how many shots are fired.