Daemons Fighting Back!

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

So then Daemon players - what can we do about this new threat from the Grey Knights? Is our codex now broken? Or is there a way to build our forces to give us a fighting chance against the scalpels of the Imperium? IDEAS NEEDED!!!!

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Ok, to kick things off, I'm thinking Khorne - wherever possible, that Blessing of the Blood God is gonna be needed! Perhaps this is the ideal time to have Skarbrand leading a load of Slaaneshi daemons into combat, maybe even backed up by Fateweaver - the high Initiative and rerolls to hit should create some damage. Other than this, firepower is important; Flamers will still be useful as assassination units against characters...

[DrLove42]

Greatest problem facing deamons against GK (cos nothing changed for everyone else) is the lack of deepstrike now.

If you get 1st turn and get in before the physic powers that disrupt deepstriking in great...if not you can't land close. So I see Seekers and Juggernaughts a bit more, with the fast movement and long assault range.

[gcsmith]

Im not one for chaos but im tempted to do a daemon army just to kill GK, My friend is doing bronze angels army *GK rules*

so Im tempted to not only counter with my BT but also with an army he should easily beat :p

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

The whole daemon deepstrike rules are so ridiculously broken it is unreal. Not being able to assault from the get-go basically means having to deep strike near or even in cover to protect your troops - not easy if you take large units. Otherwise, you get shot to pieces. They should IMO a) give some of the Assault units the ability to assault from deep strike and b) allow deep striking icons to be used for subsequent deep strikers in the same turn...

Anyhoo, what's to be done about these Grey Knights? What sort of builds are we looking at? Incidentally, I will be buying Grey Knights with a view to creating at least 4000 points of them, so hopefully I will find out their weaknesses fairly quickly!

[Connjurus]

I'll be quite frankly surprised if the most popular meta-build isn't Henchmen spam with a few Grey Knights there to soak up fire. Considering this, I'm going to be reworking my list. Still going to run T. Heralds, but I'm considering dropping my Daemon Princes for Soul Grinders - cheaper, and those pie plates should really come in hands.

Also, I think you might start seeing more Seekers - I know I'm going to be running quite a few Seekers now, and a Karanak/Blood Hound squad.

For Troops, Horrors, and lots of them. Maybe backed up with Daemonettes, maybe not.

[FTE-Charge!!!]

My daemon army is still building, and I have yet to read the new GK codex, but the internet gives me a powerful idea of what to expect.

Im still a fan of the nurgle wall. It is one of the most resiliant tactics we have available, and we need it to hold back the GK until the time for a proper counterattack. This basically calls for large hordes of plaguebearers coming down and spreading out in lines. Subsequent arrivals deepstrike behind this unit with the PB icon to get them their. PB get charged, whatever is behind counterattacks. Combat res lets you put the PB back up front. Might work??

ALSO, we cannot overlook nurglings!!!! Swarms that cannot be instant killed!!! Talk about a tarpit for some of the GK big nasties.

[Connjurus]

I'd agree with you for Plaguebearers, except Psilencers, man...dear god, Psilencers. Completely negates the bonus for Plaguebearers having Toughness 5, and it's Heavy 6. A purgation squad with 4 Psilencers deals out 24 shots that wound Daemons and Psykers on a 4+. So around 16 will hit, around 8 will wound, and you'll end up saving 4-5 plaguebearers. Not a lot at first glance, but combine it with their other, heavier weapons - like Psycannons, Heavy S: 7 with Rending (so 6's to wound ignore FNP) and...it's just nasty for those Plaguebearers.

And don't get me started on what happens in Close-Combat.

[isotope99]

Although grey knights have lots of serious anti-daemon abilities and could create a tailored list for killing daemons that would be extremely hard to resist, I think that the average grey knight list is not likely to be much worse for daemons than other space marine lists. Preferred enemy being balanced out by smaller units where power weapons aren't that good.

Certain lists (particularly all nurgle) are going to suffer badly but most should be OK.

A GK list isn't terribly manouverable, so gathering forces and attacking weak points in the enemy's deployment will remain the way to go.

Daemons-GK is going to be very tough but I don't think it's an auto-lose situation

[Connjurus]

Nor do I - in fact, like I said, I expect to see mostly Henchman spam, maybe a few Draigo-wing lists with scoring Paladins and Dreadknights, and Land Raider Crusaders with psybolt ammunition.

Personally, I'm looking forward to this new codex - I can't wait to play against my friend. He already has 15 Grey Knight Terminators - so I figure I'll get him a box of new plastic Terminators and have them be his Paladins.

[Lerra]

Ok, to kick things off, I'm thinking Khorne - wherever possible, that Blessing of the Blood God is gonna be needed! Perhaps this is the ideal time to have Skarbrand leading a load of Slaaneshi daemons into combat, maybe even backed up by Fateweaver - the high Initiative and rerolls to hit should create some damage. Other than this, firepower is important; Flamers will still be useful as assassination units against characters...

All Grey Knights have special grenades (Psykotrope grendades, or something like that, which makes all daemons and psykers strike at I1). So, Slaaneshi units might not be quite as good against GKs.

I think your best bet with Daemons is going to be heavy Tzeentch with support from Khorne units that are able to take Blessing of the Blood God (Bloodthirsters, Heralds of Khorne, and Khornate Daemon Princes).

I don't think Soul Grinders will be all that survivable given how easy it is for GKs to spam melta, long-range tank hunting from either Psycannons or 35-point Lascannons (Jokaeros), plus cheap S10 daemonhammers.

I think my list (assuming that a large percentage of people are playing GKs) would look something like this (1750 pts):

2 Khorne Heralds on chariots with Blessing of the Blood God

2 Tzeentch Heralds on chariots with Breath and Bolt

3 squads of 9 Horrors of Tzeentch with Bolt, one with the Changeling

2 squads of 3 Flamers

3 Daemon Princes of Khorne with Blessing of the Blood God

[Connjurus]

I'd be scared of using that list against Grey Knights, simple for the fact that it's got almost as low a model-count as a pure Grey Knight army will.

Also, how do the anti-Daemon grenades work? I thought that they were offensive grenades. If they're not defensive, then Slaaneshi daemons should have no problem with them.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

All Grey Knights have special grenades (Psykotrope grendades, or something like that, which makes all daemons and psykers strike at I1). So, Slaaneshi units might not be quite as good against GKs.


Frankly, if that is the case, I won't be playing against them. That would make them ridiculously good against daemons. Higher Initiative, re-rollable hits against daemons as standard? ON. YOUR. BIKE!

Daemons have nowhere near enough firepower to deal with these armies. The Henchman spam is spot on BTW, my friend was already salivating about psykers in a Chimaera or somesuch. I think maybe I'd be more inclined to face them if my opponent was happy for the daemons to ignore the force org chart...

[DrLove42]

Can see a Jokero, and a 3 meltaguns in chimera (which is about 150pts) being quite common

As for the Init 1 grenades, don't think every unit has them..but could be wrong. Its the Hallucinogen grenades that have random effects like the enemy attacks their own squad, only gets 1 attack, or are hit autommatically that are really bent...but didn't see hwo could take them

[DarkLink]

Nope, every single GK unit has psyk-out grenades I believe. And I don't know if I'd bother with the Jokearo. They're basically a slightly more flexible IG heavy weapons team, not exactly uber powerful. I'd rather have another couple Grey Knights in my list. I'd also take a razorback for the henchmen, for that extra pseudo-psycannon.


I'd agree with you for Plaguebearers, except Psilencers, man...dear god, Psilencers.

And don't get me started on what happens in Close-Combat.

I wouldn't bother with psilencers. I have an entire army of storm bolters and power weapons, I don't need weight of fire to kill stuff with FNP and I don't need to get into close combat to kill stuff that's resistant to power weapons.



A GK list isn't terribly manouverable, so gathering forces and attacking weak points in the enemy's deployment will remain the way to go.


Aside from being mechanized, being able to deny you your deepstrike, with units that can shunt 30" and are jump infantry, being able to deepstrike with most of our stuff ourselves... GKs aren't as fast as Eldar, sure, but we're a lot faster than Daemons are.

[eagleboy7259]

Frankly, if that is the case, I won't be playing against them. That would make them ridiculously good against daemons. Higher Initiative, re-rollable hits against daemons as standard? ON. YOUR. BIKE!

Daemons have nowhere near enough firepower to deal with these armies. The Henchman spam is spot on BTW, my friend was already salivating about psykers in a Chimaera or somesuch. I think maybe I'd be more inclined to face them if my opponent was happy for the daemons to ignore the force org chart...

I think that everyone is making too big a deal about Grey Knights having PF vs demons. Black Templars already have PF vs everything and yet they match up horribly against demon armies. Demons are pretty dang good at killing power armor, silver or otherwise. What works for your army currently will probably still work in the future. There's no point to tailoring a list to defeat one army because 90% of the tournament going armies youll be facing wont be Grey Knights. Then again you also have to figure that as demon players, we're a more rare sight on the tournament scene, so Grey Knights players will probably be optimizing their lists to deal with power armor, just like everybody else.

Realistically thinking about Demons vs Grey Knights - we will struggle with Kill Point games. Elite armies = fewer units / tougher units = fewer transports. Most demon builds remain viable with the possible exception of Fatecrusher.

[Daemonette666]

My daemon army is still building, and I have yet to read the new GK codex, but the internet gives me a powerful idea of what to expect.

Im still a fan of the nurgle wall. It is one of the most resiliant tactics we have available, and we need it to hold back the GK until the time for a proper counterattack. This basically calls for large hordes of plaguebearers coming down and spreading out in lines. Subsequent arrivals deepstrike behind this unit with the PB icon to get them their. PB get charged, whatever is behind counterattacks. Combat res lets you put the PB back up front. Might work??

ALSO, we cannot overlook nurglings!!!! Swarms that cannot be instant killed!!! Talk about a tarpit for some of the GK big nasties.
The Nurgle wall will not work as much as you might think. The GKs still have +1 strength to their Force Swords/ Force Halberds, and being power weapons, they cancel out the FNP.

Since they now are immune to all Daemonic gifts (attacks and abilities), and Psychic powers or attacks that target them, Flamer and horror attacks are useless, as are things like lash of submission, or the daemons version. practically every GK unit (not henchmen) are level 1 psykers. Do not tell me they are giing to be introducing 1st edition Psychic levels again.

I am planning on buying the new Grey Knights, but I will green stuff or fille off every Inquisitoin symbol, all the flowery brocades, and scrolls, and I will add spikes, Chaos Unaligned symbols, Horns on the GK Helmets, and put Word Bearer Iconography on the miniatures. Half of the model will be Grey with the original Word Bearer symbol on it, the other half will be red with the flaming daemons head on it. The Inquisitor will actually be a Grey Sensei who has found out that the Illuminati intend to sacrafice them to bring back the Emperor. They still draw power from the Star Child, but use it for Chaos's Purposes. In Apocalypse Games, I will use them to battle along side armies of Chaos and evil.

My local Gaming store owner says it is only just valid, but also says I am grasping at straws to create a reason to use the GKs codex and corrupt it. The local Ultra Smurf player, sings out loud to drown out my conversations when I talk to my mates about the idea, and keeps saying it cannot be done, and mutters Bull S**t, and other remarks, then goes off on some Pro Imperium tirade about how the Grey Knights can never be corrupted. I keep telling him they are not grey knights, but Special Word Bearers who are the warband followers of a Grey Sensei, and they have technology collect from millenium of fighting against the corrupt Imperium.

Aparently Grey Knight Psycannon ammunition can only be obtained from the blood or skin samples of the emperor, or his Sensei Children. It would be easy for a Grey Sensei to take 600 ml (a pint) of blood every now and them and use sorcery to create psycannon ammo.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I have read the majority of the codex and I see nothing saying that ALL Grey Knights are immune to all daemonic gifts - that would be ridiculous, as would psyk-out grenades reducing all CC attacks for daemons to Initiative 1. I have a pdf of the codex but am missing the wargear section. If this is true then I will never use my daemons against Grey Knights, full stop/period. Having said that, if anyone wants to pit their Daemons against my Grey Knights, game on!

[DrLove42]

The leaked dex is only about 50% accurate.

The real thing has a fair few differences...

[Connjurus]

They aren't immune to all Daemon Gifts.

[Lemt]

The leaked dex is only about 50% accurate.

The real thing has a fair few differences...

Lucky you, I still haven't seen the final codex. :(

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Well that's a slight relief - now if we can dispel this BS about all daemons striking at I1 in CC against psyk-out grenades, I'm a happier Daemon player than I am now! Frankly, I'm looking forward to pummeling some Eldar with my new Grey Knights army most

[Connjurus]

Well that's a slight relief - now if we can dispel this BS about all daemons striking at I1 in CC against psyk-out grenades, I'm a happier Daemon player than I am now! Frankly, I'm looking forward to pummeling some Eldar with my new Grey Knights army most

Like I said, I'm pretty sure that those grenades are offensive grenades...so don't get charged. ;)

[darknite]

Wow, having played a couple of games with the new GK Codex I can say that they are very powerful against Daemons. Hammerhand, Nemesis Force Halberdsm, Preferred Enemy - Daemons & PsykOut Grenades are freaky nasty against Daemons. And then there's the psybolt ammo...

[FTE-Charge!!!]

haha, you know, its a funny thing all the rumors about the new GK codex.

Im half way tempted to not read it before I play against it with my Daemons.

But something says I will be using the line, "what? You can do that? I dont believe you! (faints to floor)" everytime the GK player cancels out my abilities. So it will be an interesting read in early April lol

[DarkLink]

Well that's a slight relief - now if we can dispel this BS about all daemons striking at I1 in CC against psyk-out grenades, I'm a happier Daemon player than I am now

I don't think anyone dispelled that. I'm pretty sure it's true.

[Archduke]

The whole daemon deepstrike rules are so ridiculously broken it is unreal. Not being able to assault from the get-go basically means having to deep strike near or even in cover to protect your troops - not easy if you take large units. Otherwise, you get shot to pieces. They should IMO a) give some of the Assault units the ability to assault from deep strike and b) allow deep striking icons to be used for subsequent deep strikers in the same turn...

Anyhoo, what's to be done about these Grey Knights? What sort of builds are we looking at? Incidentally, I will be buying Grey Knights with a view to creating at least 4000 points of them, so hopefully I will find out their weaknesses fairly quickly!

No, there should never be a unit that can assault from deep strike, reason being is that assaulting units tend to wipe out whatever they assaulted the turn they do it, so it would effectively mean you would always be guaranteed to get your points out of every unit because you would always place it next to something valuable and instantly kill it. Sure not being able to assault from DS can seem weak at times but being able to do it would be broken.

[Connjurus]

No, there should never be a unit that can assault from deep strike, reason being is that assaulting units tend to wipe out whatever they assaulted the turn they do it, so it would effectively mean you would always be guaranteed to get your points out of every unit because you would always place it next to something valuable and instantly kill it. Sure not being able to assault from DS can seem weak at times but being able to do it would be broken.

Vanguard Veterans can do it. But the person has a point - Daemons should at least, if unable to assault when they deep-strike, be allowed to move in the movement phase.

Or, maybe they can deploy normally the "first wave", to represent it already being there, rather than any game with Daemons the Daemons are ALWAYS JUST ARRIVING WHERE THE OPPOSING ARMY IS CONVENIENTLY PREPARED.

[FTE-Charge!!!]

I've tried searching for a Daemons tactica, but to no avail. Does anyone know where to find a good, comprehensive tactica article?

Not just a unit by unit coverage but issues like setting up terrain and objectives, forming your two deployment halves, etc.

[Connjurus]

Alrighty, I can confirm that psyk-out grenades are only offensive grenades.

Also, wtf at Draigo's fluff. That is...this is...I'd never been all that hard on Mat Ward, but WHAT THE HELL?

This seriously pisses me off to no end.

[DarkLink]

I know! He's frikin awesome, isn't he:D.

[Connjurus]

I know! He's frikin awesome, isn't he:D.

No, he's not, and he's got the most retarded fluff I've ever seen. It's like two pages of Mary Sue.

That's right, folks. He gets two whole pages of rampaging through the Chaos Gods own private sanctums (y'know, that thing other Chaos Gods can't do) and besting Daemon-Primarchs.

I didn't hate Mat Ward before...but that was...that was just retarded. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with him if his fluff pages didn't come out as a second-grader's LOLHE'SBETTERDENEVERYONE fantasy character.

[DarkLink]

Nope, he's awesome.

Mephiston? He had a building on him and when he finally managed to dig his way out he was the lord of death. Calgar? Got beaten up by the swarm lord, then lead the battle from orbit while the 1st company was killed to the man.

Driago? He got sucked into the warp for a few thousand years or so (who's really counting anyways), killin' everything that gets in his way. And when he manages to get back to the real world, he just jumps right back into the warp, because there's more killin' left to be done:D.

[Connjurus]

Yeah, both of those examples are a bit different than screwing with a Daemon Primarch, or knocking over stuff in the Crystalline Labyrinth - you know, the place where up is down, you have more dimensions than bones, and it's pretty much expressly stated that people can't survive in? That only Lords of Change can navigate without going mad?

It doesn't make any sense, and has no justification.



Actually, it does have on justification: if it turns out Draigo is Alpharius, I'm okay with it.

[DarkLink]

This is a game where giant genetically engineered dudes kill each other with chainsaw axes, despite the fact that they're so far in the future that their standard sidearm is a fully automatic rocket launcher.

40k is not about making sense, it's about turning it up to 11. Well, Draigo just turns it up to 12. Frankly, I think 40k just peaked:D. GW should quit now, while they're at the top of their game.

[Connjurus]

This is a game where giant genetically engineered dudes kill each other with chainsaw axes, despite the fact that they're so far in the future that their standard sidearm is a fully automatic rocket launcher.

40k is not about making sense, it's about turning it up to 11. Well, Draigo just turns it up to 12. Frankly, I think 40k just peaked:D. GW should quit now, while they're at the top of their game.


Naw, we still got the Chaos Space Marine codex before it can do that.

[JxKxR]

Soooo... I was thinking a mostly Tzeentch army with a mass of pink and blues would be able to do well against the grey knights. They just have to stay away and shoot them to pieces. I don't know I haven't seen the new codex.

[DarkLink]

Well, aside from the ridiculous amount of storm bolters and psycannon shots any decent GK army should have. And that GKs have some anti-deepstrike stuff, so flamers are out, and GKs can hide in their rhinos.


All Khorne would actually be best. Bloodcrushers laugh off storm bolters, and Blessing of the Blood God gives them a 2++ in close combat against nemesis force weapons. But that's pretty much the only thing Daemons have going for them.

[Skragger]

Daemons of chaos COWER at codex creep! FLEE! SCURRY!

[FTE-Charge!!!]

Just had a small 750 pt game against GK, his list:

-BC
-20 Strikes
-DK

Daemons:

-Skulltaker
-10 Bloodletters
-10 Plagueb
-10 Furies

*Let me just say, skulltaker (ST) is the ultimate weapon against DK. His rending auto kill ability is a special rule, not a d gift. So he lost his inv save to the Dark Ex power, but still went up and ripped the head right off before it could do anything. Nuff said.

*Plagueb were amazing at taking firepower, but wiff once engaged. Def a must for early stages as he shot at them with everything and barely made a scratch

*Furies were great. Bad rolling on my part, but nobody expects them and they make great shock troops.

For the future Im thinking Hounds of K bc they have the 2+ inv. Might be a good way to tie up the GK early for the big hitters to arrive?

Thoughts?

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

My first thought is that DarkLink must be on crystal meth if he thinks that the Draigo fluff is in any way cool at all. That fluff is absolute Paris Hilton - sparkly and glamourous but essentially dumb, stupid, fan-boy crud. BUT that is DarkLink's opinion and we should respect it - GW obviously had their demographic right there. Sorry mate!

However, in game he is a nice addition - apart from not having psybolts. He did dish it out to Abaddon in the game I played recently, which was super sweet, and he make Paladins troop choices which are the only terminators actually worth having - the standard ones were a bit squishy against Khorne Berserkers, so I would imagine most Assault specialists are going to have a good time assaulting them. Paladins are hardier, have a better chance of surviving the first round of combat and with halberds can dish out the pain before the enemy get a chance to hit back. Stick a Librarian in with Paladins with Falchions, pass a few psychic tests and you have an Initiative 10, 4 attacks on the charge, Strength 5 assault unit. Nasty.

Whoever said Khorne Daemons was spot on - Dark Excommunication is all well and good, but with a couple of Flamer assassination strikes, you're good to go here. I can see a few Khorne builds coming in

[Lockark]

For Deamons what you want is as much calvery and beasts as possible. Flesh Hounds and
Seekers are your friends. You need to be able to get into Hand-to-Hand as fast as possible. The Seeker's and there rending also gives you the better anti-tank in the book.

Blood-letters are slow. This hurts you.

[DarkLink]

My first thought is that DarkLink must be on crystal meth if he thinks that the Draigo fluff is in any way cool at all. That fluff is absolute Paris Hilton - sparkly and glamourous but essentially dumb, stupid, fan-boy crud.

Oh, hey, someone who forgot that the entire basis for 40k's fluff is massive fanboy-ism and all about turning it up to 11 on everything possible:p. Genetically engineered supersoldiers in power armor? Not good enough. We have to give them fully automatic, double-barreled rocked launchers, giant frikin swords, and jedi-like psychic powers. Oh, and they fight and kill Cthulu type monsters from the collective human psychic sub-conscious on a regular basis. Driago is simply the next logical progression from this.

[Connjurus]

Oh, hey, someone who forgot that the entire basis for 40k's fluff is massive fanboy-ism and all about turning it up to 11 on everything possible:p. Genetically engineered supersoldiers in power armor? Not good enough. We have to give them fully automatic, double-barreled rocked launchers, giant frikin swords, and jedi-like psychic powers. Oh, and they fight and kill Cthulu type monsters from the collective human psychic sub-conscious on a regular basis. Driago is simply the next logical progression from this.

"My bias is better than your bias." ;)

[DarkLink]

Yeah, well GW agrees with my bias:p

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Oh, hey, someone who forgot that the entire basis for 40k's fluff is massive fanboy-ism and all about turning it up to 11 on everything possible:p. Genetically engineered supersoldiers in power armor? Not good enough. We have to give them fully automatic, double-barreled rocked launchers, giant frikin swords, and jedi-like psychic powers. Oh, and they fight and kill Cthulu type monsters from the collective human psychic sub-conscious on a regular basis. Driago is simply the next logical progression from this.

But... Driago is just trolling on the Chaos' lawn?... Not really to my liking. I really loved the old fluff and wish it hadn't have changed so much but of course DarkLink your opinion is your own :L. Just... If Primarchs got lost in the Warp and have not returned how did Draigo?

P.S: I guess he isn't that much diffrent to Justicar Alaric... Epic Signature

[Connjurus]

Yeah, well GW agrees with my bias:p

And then when the next Chaos Codex comes out there's gonna be something in there about "a Daemon that gives even Draigo pause" or some massacre of an entire Grey Knight Brotherhood, and then MY bias will be the on in ascendance - 'cause every codex has to trump the last one in terms of "lolurarmysux".

[DarkLink]

Well, maybe, except GKs are Marines and daemons aren't, so yeah... :p

[Connjurus]

Oh, I meant Chaos Space Marines. I play Daemons...but really, just in Apocalypse.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I kind of feel that there may be a George Lucas scenario developing in Games Workshop - in terms of a beautiful, awesome world has been created and now it's creators are curling one out on top of it, albeit slowly...meh, if it means me and DarkLink disagree with each other...again!...who am I to upset the status quo?

We're veering off subject now though - good ways to stop the Grey Knights for daemon players. I still like the Plaguebearer wall and Flamer suicide squads in terms of softening up, and cavalry/beasts are a good way to go. Bloodletters I agree are largely too slow to bother taking in numbers, but it's the only way you're gonna get Skulltaker to survive and start hacking stuff up. Fateweaver is a no-brainer. But is there anything we've thus far missed?

[FTE-Charge!!!]

We're veering off subject now though - good ways to stop the Grey Knights for daemon players. I still like the Plaguebearer wall and Flamer suicide squads in terms of softening up, and cavalry/beasts are a good way to go. Bloodletters I agree are largely too slow to bother taking in numbers, but it's the only way you're gonna get Skulltaker to survive and start hacking stuff up. Fateweaver is a no-brainer. But is there anything we've thus far missed?

I agree that BL are slow, but when they hit, oh my do they hit!!! As long as you stay away from NFH that strike first you are generally tearing things up.

Interesting point:

-PB are great for sucking up GK shots, but whiff in combat
-BL are slow, cant take shooting, but destroy in combat.

***Time for combo units. Using two of these units in conjunction could be a tricky and nasty combo. I often use furies behind my PB as they can jump the wall and close enemy and hit the rear while the PB shuffle into combat.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

See, I've never taken Furies because I absolutely despise the models and have found no good proxies for them. That's not a half bad idea.

[DarkLink]

Against GKs you want lots of fast models, and lots of Blessings of the Blood God. Bloodcrushers are tough, too, though the GK player will almost certainly have a dreadnought to tie them up with so be careful.

[FTE-Charge!!!]

See, I've never taken Furies because I absolutely despise the models and have found no good proxies for them. That's not a half bad idea.

I thought the same thing until I had a box of 10 thrown at my face at Games Day Baltimore for free. The theme of the models is great, but the execution poor.

I painted mine in a gargoyle-ish, verminish, ashy waste kinda way to represent their 'unwanted child' status. A good paint job helps, but the models are very top heavy and odd with their glider wings.

Great thing is that most opponents have no idea what they are! I have even had long time veterans ask what they are. Despite low weapon skill, they have 2 str 4 attacks base and fly, so they make great shock troops.

If you ever find a good proxy post em up so we can see and give them a try, not particularly cheap but a nice suprise for your opponent.