My Drop Pods Give Up Kill Points?!

[Chris Copeland]

I have a 40K question. I've been told that my Drop Pods give my opponents Kill Points when figuring out who wins the game. Why? Also, where does it say this? I've been going over the rules and I can't find anything in the basic rule book that would back this up. Rules Gurus, your help is needed!

[Squirrel_Fish]

This should be in the rules forum.

Drop Pods count as a single unit that consists of (you guessed it) a single Drop Pod. Each unit gives up a single Kill Point if destroyed, even if the unit was relatively worthless.

Space Marine squads that utilize the Combat Squads rule to form two separate units each give up a KP. A more dramatic example is that the Tau Devilfish effectively count as two Kill Points due to the fact that the Gun Drone squadron built into the vehicle give up a KP as well.

[Chris Copeland]

Sorry... I thought I'd gone to the rules forum... I wasn't paying enough attention... thanks for the clarification...

[Vaktathi]

Drop pods are a Unit. Any unit if destroyed gives up a KP. That's all there is too it.

Welcome to why KP's are a terrible victory mechanic.

[blackarmchair]

KPs are good and bad.

They balance a lot of otherwise very over-powered strategies in this game. However they do favor others and introduce their own problems. Victory points do the same thing so both are just as unbalancing.

[Mikey87]

In our gaming group we ignore the kp for gun drones of devilfishes and piranha because it makes the game instand lose for the tau player when playing for kill points...

[Lemt]

In our gaming group we ignore the kp for gun drones of devilfishes and piranha because it makes the game instand lose for the tau player when playing for kill points...

That's silly IMHO. Devilfishes can swap the drones for a Smart Missile System for a few points, and Piranhas are, well, yeah.

[Lerra]

It's 20 points to upgrade the gun drones, which really adds up if you are running multiple transports. I just gave up on making my Tau list KP-friendly and go with a "Table or lose" strat on KP games (it's a casual list anyway). My Tau list runs 19 KP at 1500 points. 28 KP at 2000 points.

I do get a chuckle when playing new opponents with that list though. "Oh, my 2k list has 9 KP, how many do you have? . . . 0_o 28?!"

[Tynskel]

hehe
In a kill point game you should be trying to kill your opponent rather than worrying about your opponent killing you. If a drop pod + combat squads + 2 independent characters allows you to kill more, so what if it is 5 KPs in itself.

"A man never won a war by dying for his country. A man won a war by making some other poor son of a b!tch die for their country!"-- paraphrased from General Patton.

[HsojVvad]

Drop pods are a Unit. Any unit if destroyed gives up a KP. That's all there is too it.

Welcome to why KP's are a terrible victory mechanic.

KP are not a terrible victory mechanic. Problem is, people don't want to make rules for KP but objective missions only. Part of 5th edtion is making an army for both and people just don't want to adapt, simple as that.

Don't want to give up a KP, don't use DP then. Same for Tyranids. Don't want to give up a KP don't spit out gaunts with the Tervigon then.

People shouldn't blame the rules for thier own ineptitude, or not willing to change. That is part of the game, make a good army for KP, it becomes harder to play with objectives, make a good army for objectives, it becomes harder for KP, and then make it for all comers, is suppose to make it interesting. Just because some people don't want to adapt, just speaks more of thier character than the rules.

[Lerra]

The problem is that designing an army around KPs is not fun (imo). I like those small, cheap squads. They are fun to play and fun to kill.

KPs also encourage players to build lists that most people don't enjoy playing against, like land raider spam and deathstar armies.

[Tynskel]

I don't 'design' my army for objectives or kill points.
I design my army with one function in mind: control of the board.

If I have done a good job with that, Kill Points and Objectives will fall into my lap!

[Wildeybeast]

Can we get some clarification on exactly where this rule comes from? I can't find it in the rulebook or FAQ and I was under the understanding that dedicated transports don't give up KP's as they are to all intents and purposes taken as part of the same unit for which they are bought, given that they don't take up any force organisation slots.

[Lerra]

The basic rule: if it can contest an objective, it's a KP. Dedicated transports count as a KP. Created units like gaunts or chaos spawn count as a KP. An IC with an honor guard counts as 2 KPs (because the IC can leave the squad).

[Lemt]

Can we get some clarification on exactly where this rule comes from? I can't find it in the rulebook or FAQ and I was under the understanding that dedicated transports don't give up KP's as they are to all intents and purposes taken as part of the same unit for which they are bought, given that they don't take up any force organisation slots.

There are other units that don't take up FoC slots. Units are NOT defined by "taking a FoC slot", in the same way KPs are not defined by "killing something that takes up a FoC slot". Or else, the hordes of gaunts spawned by tervigons wouldn't give KPs.

[Brass Scorpion]

Page 91 of the rule book. Of all the arguments I've heard I've never heard this one from anyone in the store, casual player or even the most obnoxious power gamers, and I've overheard a lot of rules debates and arguments. I've heard the question come up occasionally, and the answer is invariably "yes" and the game goes on with those units giving up Kill Points if they are destroyed. A Drop Pod, a Rhino, a Chimera, those individual items are "units" and they count as Kill Points. Some players avoid using them in Kill Point games because of that if they know what kind of mission they are playing before they make their army list. Making a desperate stand against them counting as units and Kill Points will not get you many games, at least not repeat games.

And as has been pointed out before this most definitely belongs in the rules section of the forum. ;)

[Dooley]

Not only do DPs count for victory points (IF THEY GET KILLED) but since they are a disabled vehicle as soon as they hit the ground they count fot HALF VICTORY POINTS! I do love me soome drop pods but damn it I hate that HALF VICTORY POINT THING!

[Brass Scorpion]

Not only do DPs count for victory points (IF THEY GET KILLED) but since they are a disabled vehicle as soon as they hit the ground they count fot HALF VICTORY POINTS! I do love me soome drop pods but damn it I hate that HALF VICTORY POINT THING!
There are no half Kill Points and there are no more Victory Points scenarios in the main rule book, that ended with 4th Edition. But yes, when vehicles like Rhinos were damaged they did give up Victory Points in the old scenarios that worked that way.

[DarkLink]

I don't 'design' my army for objectives or kill points.
I design my army with one function in mind: control of the board.

If I have done a good job with that, Kill Points and Objectives will fall into my lap!

Yeah, I though people had stopped complaining about this stuff a few years ago.

[dannyat2460]

Yeah, I though people had stopped complaining about this stuff a few years ago.

Us 40K players never stop complaining :p

[DECOY]

Us 40K players never stop complaining :p

Easy now.....I would hate to start complaining about my straight teeth, political freedom, and good looking women.

[Culven]

Can we get some clarification on exactly where this rule comes from?
Refer to the Rulebook. Page 3 defines "Unit", and page 91 defines what grants a Kill Point.

There are no . . . more Victory Points scenarios in the main rule book, that ended with 4th Edition.
This isn't true. The Victory Point rules are still in the Rulebook, just not the little one. They are in the special missions or campaign section at the back. Most players have just never used them.

[Tynskel]

Refer to the Rulebook. Page 3 defines "Unit", and page 91 defines what grants a Kill Point.

This isn't true. The Victory Point rules are still in the Rulebook, just not the little one. They are in the special missions or campaign section at the back. Most players have just never used them.

I have found that the campaign rules are fun. They require more organization and a committed group for regular playing. But things like victory points are useful within those sections. Victory points are also useful for creating your own scenarios.

[somerandomdude]

The Victory Point rules are still in the Rulebook, just not the little one. They are in the special missions or campaign section at the back. Most players have just never used them.

Not true. The "big book" and the "little book" have the exact same rules. Victory points are on page 108 of the little book, in the reference section.

Victory points still exist, and were even used in last year's 'Ard Boyz.

[Wildeybeast]

Page 91 of the rule book. Of all the arguments I've heard I've never heard this one from anyone in the store, casual player or even the most obnoxious power gamers, and I've overheard a lot of rules debates and arguments. I've heard the question come up occasionally, and the answer is invariably "yes" and the game goes on with those units giving up Kill Points if they are destroyed. A Drop Pod, a Rhino, a Chimera, those individual items are "units" and they count as Kill Points. Some players avoid using them in Kill Point games because of that if they know what kind of mission they are playing before they make their army list. Making a desperate stand against them counting as units and Kill Points will not get you many games, at least not repeat games.

And as has been pointed out before this most definitely belongs in the rules section of the forum. ;)

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification, we have obviously been playing wrong in my gaming group. TBH we normally use VP's because as we have mastered the task of adding up an army list in the first place, working out VP's not that much of a challenge and so don't really need GW's child friendly, hideously unfair KP system.

[Culven]

Not true. The "big book" and the "little book" have the exact same rules. Victory points are on page 108 of the little book, in the reference section.
Victory points still exist, and were even used in last year's 'Ard Boyz.
They don't have exactly the same rules. The little book has the core rules and missions. The big book has special missions and campaign rules. I thought that the Victory Point rules were excluded from the little rulebook as they are more tied to the campaign rules. I was mistaken about their exclusion, though it is a little strange they are included since they aren't used in the missions in the little book.