Hello Heretic Scum...

[GeordieGenius]

Well hello unlcean ones, I am the bringer of justice, the might of the imperium and the destroyer of the heretical masses known as Chaos Space Marines. Although I know you mostly communicate with gurgles and screams I am going to risk the taint by trying to ask you as a question.

I live in Thailand and as stated above I’m an IG player. My only opponent is a CSM player and well, I think it’s about 15-3 to the IG. I just want to know if other CSM players also have trouble with IG, We’ve tried everything, I’ve played every list I can possibly think of, and although sometimes it appears close by turn 5 it is usually a turky shoot.

I need your help to make it more competitive but please don’t suggest points difference as it would be taken as taking the pi55.

What would you play against IG 2000 pts (he’s got everything) and what would your tactics be. I will post my list for the next game (we’re playing on Sat) but I haven’t made it yet, it will not be mech as I find it boring.

So peace out you vile heretic scum, and I will acknowledge replies with utter disdain, yet I will give you the pleasure of my purity and respond.

[GeordieGenius]

Ok here we go my fingers appear to be blackened with the filth that I must confront, yet as promised the almighty IG honour you with a glimpse at a list of light and purity.

HQ CC – Straken, 3 plasma guns, Medic and 2 bodyguards all laspistol upgrade where applicable in Vendetta

CC – plain as youlike

Elite – 5 stormtroopers 2 meltas
– 9 psykers in chimera
– 10 ratlings

Troops – Vets with Harker and 3 plasma guns
– Vets with 3 melta in chimera ( I know it’s mean but their just so good against LR)
– Vets with demolitions, so all with melta bombs and 1 demo charge (suicide bomb) these dudes in a Vendetta

– Infantry – PC with Commissar and Platoon commander both with PP and PF
– 5 x 10 man squads with autocannon hw

Fast Attack – 2 x Vendettas

Heavy Support – 1 x LRBT with lascannon and hb sponsoons and camo

– 1 x LRBT with lascannon

There 2000 points or just under. Now deepstriking, well hit and miss, he’s tried it with very little success (there’s just very little space with all those little men about). Zerks, gotta get them across the board, Rhinos pop at the sniff of an auto cannon and then its blood for your own blood god, and landraiders are confronted head on and usually blown up. His deamon prince, is usually plasma goo before turn 3 at most, 3 times now he’s been dead by turn 1…….

So what can he do, what would you do. Would you beat this list with CSM, or is it just that IG are just so overpowered ( i mean put out a list and expect to win, not with the luck of the dice gods as on their day anyone can win)!!!

OK, my mate is reading this so he now knows my list, we hope for a reply from a few others, cheers blight1 for the msg it just seems so damm unfair!! We’re new to 40k and we chose the armies before we new how to play or had even looked at a codex.

So go and wash yourselves you cretinous filth, (don’t know if that’s even an insult too chaos). Be gone !!!!

Peace Out!! (in a blood thirsty destructive way)

[gcsmith]

Im not a chaos player but there are things he can do.
1stly oblits provide perfect anti tank for ur vehicles.
Second he should take lash of submission, annoying as it is. comibine it with flamers and vindis it allows him to destroy massed infantry.
third. you have a lot of shots, as such plague marines/mark of nurgle. should allow him to survive.

Hopefully they can help with wat little chaos knowlegde i have

[Demonus]

id suggest Khorne Berserkers in a Land Raider, get into Close Combat asap with you to nullify all those shots.

icons will let him deepstrike his oblits or daemons in with no chance of mishap, even if you have the board filled with fleshy sacks...i mean troops.

lash of submission + defiler battle cannon/vinidicator blast/flamers/oblit plasma cannon blasts = lots of dead IG troops!

cheers.

[Guardsman]

CSM should never, ever have problems deep striking. Ever. Every squad should buy either personal icons or icons from different gods. Like Plague marines come with icons of Nurgle or Khorne berserkers come with icons of Khorne. These icons allow any deep strikers to land within 6 inches of an icon bearer [B]with no deviation[B].

Load up 2 land raiders with squads of berserkers with krak and melta grenades and get them in quick to peel open those lightly armored Guard vehicles, then eviscerate the guards inside, then use their icons to Deep strike Obliterators in close to the Leman Russes and use melta guns to melt them. Or have your Daemon Prince with wings do it with his extra die of damage.

Plague marines in rhinos moving up quick with toughness 5 can shrug off most lasgun shots and have Feel No Pain to back up failed armor saves. Equip them with 2 flamers or plasma guns in each squad and they are great troop killers.

Make sure to upgrade all terminators to heroes and give them either icons of Khorne for extra attacks or Tzeentch for 4+ invuln. saves.

Defilers are also good for back up artillery or powerful CC damage.

In the end Deep Striking 6 Obliterators in close with melta or plasma, or even flamers can turn the tide in a game.

[Grailkeeper]

A Geordie who lives in Thailand. Long shot- do you run a cafe in Koh phangang?

[tabyrd]

As others have stated, your lack of vehicles really opens up the floor for some dual lash shenanigans. That and some clever deployment combined with ordinance will keep your ground troops occupied. Oblits would work well as ranged support and smart deployment can mitigate some of your static ranged weapons ability to hit. Take some small termie squads equipped with combi-meltas for deepstrike support and lesser daemons to come in via icons for assaulting all those gribbly guardsmen!

Abaddon has been known to stubbornly destroy a whole army himself as well!

[GeordieGenius]

A Geordie who lives in Thailand. Long shot- do you run a cafe in Koh phangang?

No dude, close Koh Samui though!

[Grailkeeper]

Ah theres a geordie who runs a laurel and hardy cafe there. I have fond memories (and memory loss) of koh samui even if it is a bit of a dump. Ninja crepes was the buisness

[GeordieGenius]

Ok guys, I think the only problem is he very rarely gets to my lines to deep strike anything.

The cover thing, we play 25% I want more cover but he doesn't as he thinks it is helping me with saves.

What usually happens is, I take out the DP, bust open all his transports, and the go after his defiler if I have enough to take it out otherwise take some pops at his oblits trying to instant death him.. He is the left to slog across the board and 1 large blast template does a whole lotta damage to his CSM troops. besides that I very rarely go for any troops on turn one, I try and break his mech back first.

I like the termis with 4+ invun, but in a LR how many points are we talking? He doesn't really use them as he says they drain to many points.

I mean do you guys have this problem with the IG or is he just being a bit rubbish?

Cheers guys.

[Da Gargoyle]

I think your opponent is just not a great general. If he used the advice posted so far he would cause you grief. Obliterators and Terminators are a must against guard, the only thing on a Russ that is likely to negate a save on these is the las cannon, the battle cannon is AP3 ? In a 2000 point army he has the room for them.

He maybe should also think of Havocs, a nice squad of 4 missile launchers keeps his target choice flexible and generates multiple shots at the target.

He should allow more cover, it works both ways and your long range weapons need LOS to inflict damage.

In the first couple of rounds his Land Raider should sit back and blast away with all its weapons to thin your ranks a bit. Doesn't it have the same thing as the machine spirit, possessed or something that allows it to nominate a separate target? And tell him to put smoke on the rhino's if he must use them. Maybe instead he can run a couple of squads of lessor demons as a screen in front of the berzerkers and run them across the table. He could move 18" into assault which is better odds than the rhino, which is more like a lighter for smokes.

[Connjurus]

The possessed thing you described is how it worked in the 3.5 codex. Now it makes them immune to shaken and stunned.

[thecactusman17]

As for cover/terrain, he's kind of right and kind of wrong. What sort of terrain do you play with? If it's all area terrain, then he probably has a point. If it's LOS-blocking terrain from City Fight or similar large, bulky terrain then he should try seeing if a game with more terrain could benefit him.

At my LGS, the average game has 25% terrain with 1/2 to 2/3 occupying a vertical space of 8" or more. This isn't to saqy that you can't see through it, but giving your vehicles a 4+ cover save is going to help him.

To the chaos player: Post your own list, or a list of models you could field comfortably. Don't try to out-shoot his army unless you are playing w/ high strength templates. Go for the throat, multi-charge whenever and wherever possible, and NEVER throw a single squad at that 50 model guardsmen squad--you will lose almost every time due to weight of dice.

Anything you have that can fire multiple S7+ shots at the Vendettas is a good buy. In this list, you have two main enemies: Guardsmen and Vendettas. The Russ tanks are also important, but I'm willing to bet that they tend to roll onto the table and shoot every turn thereafter without much additional movement. The Vendettas are the real nasty surprise here and allow your opponent to grab objectives late game. His primary asset with those is mobility, something that you lack as a chaos player.

A friend of mine has an excellent theory for this sort of thing: The game is ultimately broken down into four main qualities that armies can choose to exploit. They are: Long Range (24" or more), Mid Range (12-24"), Assault, and mobility. His theory is that you can field an excellent force if it is amazing in one or more of these qualities and OK in another.

The IG army you are facing is great in the long range, very good in the mid range, and pretty decent in mobility. His weakest quality is close combat.

Chaos Marines, like most marines, make excellent use of the mid range and assault. They also have good mobility options, though they aren't quite as mobile as guard can choose to be. They are OK in long range, though not nearly as much as Guard.

Your opponent is at his weakest in the assault, and has an over-reliance on long-range firepower. Tailor your army slightly to deny him his advantages. Smoke Launchers on the Rhinos/Land Raiders, Obliterators to deny him air superiority and thin out his hordes afterwards. Take that Greater Daemon with Wings to counteract his mobility and get into Assault ASAP. Do not try to engage him in a shooting match, he has better weapons than you can muster at long range and is your equal in mid range.

Oh, one other thing: stop DSing your squads. Put them all on the table, preferably in Rhinos. You may even want to take Bikes (Nurgle bikes are T6 if you really want to mess with your opponent). Overwhelm your enemy with targets, so that when something finally gets through to his lines everyone else can follow into that breach.

This is brought to you by the Sisters of Battle. Sensing the warp-taint of Guardsmen since third edition.

[Fellend]

Personally I think it sounds like he is rubbish, My usual opponent plays CSM, and his list looks somewhat like:

5squads of 10 CSM, 2x double plasma, powersword ones, 2x double melta, powerfist ones, 1x double flamer, powersword all in rhinos
Deamon prince with lash and wings, and 10 raptors with flamers
depending on points, 3 obs and 1 defiler.

Plan = Rush forward, attack, leave nothing standing.

So far my Black Templar, is the only one that's been able to stop him, mostly because I do the same thing but Templars do it better.

[GeordieGenius]

Well we are now playing WHFB, he has a Skaven army and I've beaten him everytime with O&G, Bretonnians and even dwarfs.....so decided he's just rubbish!!!