2 Jaws of the World Wolf questions

[Lancefireball]

Question 1: Assume I have a squad with a Rune Priest and 8 Grey Hunters with a Meltagun. Would I be able to shoot a tank with my meltagun and cast Jaws at the same time at something else. In the rulebook it does not say that you have to target anything with Jaws but in the Faq it says that the first model Jaws hits is treated as the target for Jaws. Its kind of confusing. So what I want to know is if Jaws turns the squads target to whatever model it hits first.

Questions 2: If I wanted to take that same squad and shoot at the same target how would we do wound alocation. Say Jaws is through three units in a squad of 5 and 2 of them fail and I have 9 wounds from the grey hunters. Would he be able to allocate to the removed models?



From the Faq

Q. Does Jaws of the World Wolf require line of
sight? Does it ignore terrain that blocks line of
sight (i.e., impassible terrain)?

A. As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World
Wolf requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must
have line of sight to the first model that the
power affects – in effect he is treated as the target
model; the power just happens to hit everybody
else on its way through!

[steelmage99]

First you pick a target unit for the squad, then you resolve the effect of the shooting.

So no shooting at different targets unless specifically allowed to.



The Jaws might target the unit, but it hits individual models. Those models (and only those) take the tests. The hits from Jaws are not allocated like normal wounds.

[WereWolf_nr]

1. The other models hit by Jaws would be incidental hits, similar to using a blast or flame template.

2. Less sure on this one, I assume they would allocate as normal. It might be something worth house-ruling or dicing off if it actually happens.

[somerandomdude]

For the second question, the models under the line suffer to hit and must test. However, everything is simultaneous, so they could also be allocated wounds to save from the squad shooting.

If, however, you lost a model under the line AND failed a save, and that model was part of a group that included other identical models, you would have to lose another model as well.

Ex.

10-man squad with 9 models armed identically. If the line passes over one of the 9 and he fails his test AND a wound, you'd lose two models. If the line passes over the 1 armed differently and he fails his test and a wound, you'd only lose that one model.

[Bean]

Question 1: The first model on the line is the attack's target--that means that the first model on the line must be in the unit that the Rune Priest's unit targeted with their shooting. If the Priest's unit shoot at a tank, that tank must be the first model on the JotWW line.

Question 2: Do exactly what somerandomdude said: allocate wounds as normal. Don't treat the JotWW "hits" as wounds to be allocated--they're not. They just go on the models that are actually on the line. Once all of the wounds have been allocated to the models in the target unit, the saves and initiative tests should be resolved as if simultaneous--if a model fails a JotWW test and is removed, wounds allocated to that model are wasted unless it's part of a group of identical models (in which case take the save and, if it is failed, remove one of those identical models as a casualty instead.)

[Vindur]

That isn't simultaneous Bean. You are resolving the JotWW damage first.
The only way I can see it working is take the I tests at the same time as saves for each batch of models, treating it as an odd armour save, if you get my meaning.

[Bean]

That isn't simultaneous Bean. You are resolving the JotWW damage first.
The only way I can see it working is take the I tests at the same time as saves for each batch of models, treating it as an odd armour save, if you get my meaning.

I did propose that you physically take the initiative tests first, but my proposal resolves them as if you had done them simultaneously.

I think I do get your meaning, but the rules tell you to allocate wounds, and a JotWW "hit" is not a wound--it doesn't get allocated along with everything else. Let's propose a model situation: Standard tactical squad gets fired on by a standard grey hunter squad with Rune Priest.

In the tactical squad we have:
Sergeant
Flamer
Missile Launcher
7x Bolter Marines

In the grey hunter squad we have:
Rune Priest
Melta Gunner
8x Bolter Hunters

Grey Hunter squad fires, everyone's within 12".
Rune Priest passes his psychic test and draws his line through the tactical squad sergeant. His line also clips the Missile Launcher and a Bolter Marine.
Melta Gunner hits and wounds.
Bolter Hunters take 16 shots, hits 12 and, wounds six.
Here's what happens:'

Marine player assigns no wounds to the Sergeant. He takes an initiative test for Jaws.
Marine player assigns the melta wound the Missile Launcher. The Missile launcher takes an initiative test for Jaws, but even if he makes it he dies to the melta.
Marine player assigns no wounds to the flamer (he wants to cook some Hunters close in, next turn).
Marine player assigns six wounds to the bolter marines. One takes a Jaws test, the group takes seven saves. If the Jaws test is failed, that one model gets removed, and one bolter marine gets removed for each failed save.

What this describes is:

JotWW hits are not wounds--they don't get allocated like wounds and you can, for instance, suffer a save and a Jaws test even if there aren't enough wounds to wrap around the entire squad.

If a JotWW hit is assigned to a single model that also dies to a save--it only dies once--nothing else dies and the save doesn't get moved to another model if the JotWW test is failed.

If a JotWW hit is assigned to a model in a group of identical models, and that model both fails its initiative test and fails a save, the failed save causes a proper wound (a casualty in a group of one-wound models) to one of the other models in its group.

[somerandomdude]

That isn't simultaneous Bean. You are resolving the JotWW damage first.

No, he's not.

His statement made it sound as though he was, because frankly it is much easier to roll the test and the wound separately. His statement is the exact same as "If you roll the save first and fail, the Initiative test allocated to the model would have no effect (unless that model was part of a group of identically armed models, in which case you would roll the save and if failed the wound would actually kill another model from that group)".

His parenthetical statement clarified what he was saying quite well.

[L192837465]

No, he's not.

His statement made it sound as though he was, because frankly it is much easier to roll the test and the wound separately. His statement is the exact same as "If you roll the save first and fail, the Initiative test allocated to the model would have no effect (unless that model was part of a group of identically armed models, in which case you would roll the save and if failed the wound would actually kill another model from that group)".

His parenthetical statement clarified what he was saying quite well.

I thought wounds were allocated on a model by model basis, even with like-equipped models?

EX: 5 marines, one with a powerfist, another with a flamer, three with boltguns, are wounded 9 times

pf guy: 1 wound
flamer guy: 2 wounds
bolter guy 1: 2 wounds
bolter guy 2: 2 wounds
bolter guy 3: 2 wounds

Or is it

pf: 1 wound
Flamer: 2 wounds
6 wounds to bolter guys.


Probably the wrong thread for that question.

[steelmage99]

It is the latter version.

[blackarmchair]

Yeah as the shooting player you get to decide whether to use jaws first or to shoot the regular weapons first.

Think about boon of mutation. It's a psychic shooting attack that targets individual models and does no wounds. You can have your sorcerer use it and then fire the rest of the squad's bolters after (or vice versa).

A fun trick however that's very useful in the situation you described above is to target the tank as your primary target and then hit models behind it. You need LoS to your primary target but not to other models that may be hit; also while you cannot affect the vehicle nothing prevents you from targeting it.

[Necron_Lord]

A fun trick however that's very useful in the situation you described above is to target the tank as your primary target and then hit models behind it. You need LoS to your primary target but not to other models that may be hit; also while you cannot affect the vehicle nothing prevents you from targeting it.

While totally legal, that is beardy cheese. You, as a player, are utilizing information your model wouldn't have. It's like in DoW where the computer's IG scan is always on top of one of your infiltrated units.

Regarding the questions, all of the shooting is done simultaneously, and the player whose unit is getting shot allocates wounds as normal, and any models touched by the JotWW line have to pass an initiative test or be removed from play. It is possible to allocate wounds to the models who have been affected by JotWW to minimize the damage.

[slxiii]

It's a psychic shooting attack, not a shooting attack. you can do it at any time in the phase, before or after the rest of the units shooting, but not during.

[Bean]

It's a psychic shooting attack, not a shooting attack. you can do it at any time in the phase, before or after the rest of the units shooting, but not during.

This is actually untrue. Psychic shooting attacks are done exactly the same way shooting attacks are--which means if the rune priest is in a squad, he makes his psychic shooting attack at exactly the same time the squad he's in makes their shooting attacks, and it's resolved as though simultaneous with their shooting attacks.