Tervigons

[blackarmchair]

So if a Tervigon rolls to spawn some termagants and they cannot be placed (the reason doesn't matter, say the player is out of models) does the "would-be" unit count as a kill point?

The rules are kind of fuzzy.

[steelmage99]

That is a strange one.

Is a unit a unit if it hasn't come into existence yet?

Anyway, it smells like one of those "constructed problems" that dominates rules-boards across the Interwebz.
How would that situation ever come up?
Have the Tervigon completely surrounded by models (base-to-base 6" out from the Tervigon....and then the Tyranid player decides to spawn knowing that there will be a problem?

[somerandomdude]

If you want a situation that can occur where the player doesn't make a mistake, think of the Parasite of Mortrex, who doesn't give you the option to spawn Rippers, you just do.

In any case, the unit did not exist - ever - so there would be no Kill Point awarded. The models were lost before they were placed. Also note that it says "lost" and not "destroyed".

[WereWolf_nr]

What about using situations where things can't come in from reserves as a precedent? Necron Warriors who never make it in through a Monolith (say it was destroyed turn 1) count as destroyed.

I'm bringing up an alternative for exploration here more than disagreeing.

[SotonShades]

I would say it depends on if a Tervigon has to spawn each turn or if the owning player chooses to or not (don't have a Nid Codex, so can't check for myself). If they have to, the unit would be destroyed as it couldn't be destroyed. On the otherhand, if they choose to, then in that situation they simply wouldn't be allowed to, so the unit isn't spawned and so isn't destroyed.

As I've said, this is without seeing the rules properly, so is my own logical conclusion (not that GW rules follow logic that often :P)

[somerandomdude]

What about using situations where things can't come in from reserves as a precedent? Necron Warriors who never make it in through a Monolith (say it was destroyed turn 1) count as destroyed.

I'm bringing up an alternative for exploration here more than disagreeing.

That is different, as that Warrior unit did in fact exist (and also because the rules specifically address this I believe).

In the Tervigon example, the unit never existed.

[Lerra]

For Chaos Daemons, Boon of Mutation turns a model into a Chaos Spawn that counts as a kill point for the daemons player. But, if you don't have a spawn model, the enemy model just diapers and the nonexistent spawn doesn't count as a kill point.

That's in the GW FAQ for Chaos Daemons.

[Tynskel]

For Chaos Daemons, Boon of Mutation turns a model into a Chaos Spawn that counts as a kill point for the daemons player. But, if you don't have a spawn model, the enemy model just diapers and the nonexistent spawn doesn't count as a kill point.

That's in the GW FAQ for Chaos Daemons.

That's probably the best thing to go off of.

[WereWolf_nr]

That's probably the best thing to go off of.

Agreed.

[Paul]

Agreed. It also makes sense.

If a Kill Point is the destruction of valuable squads / vehicles / whathaveyou during the mission, I would hesitate to call a randomly spawned squad of Termagaunts (which the tyranid force was doing well without) Kill-Point worthy.

[blackarmchair]

That makes sense. Thanks Lerra.

[MaltonNecromancer]

I agree. I would have said that the clue is in the name: kill point.

How can you score a kill point for a unit you didn't kill?! If it just dies, well... it's not been killed, has it?