Summer of Flyers

[wittdooley]

So I know there's bit a bit of a hush hush about this recently, but I picked up a relatively juicy bit of info yesterday from an industry insider (sculptor, daemon and slayer sword winner, friends with nearly all of GWs design team)-- I'm not going to say who-- that a Plastic Thunderhawk is looking promising for this summer.

He didn't know if they'd have it finished, but they've been working on it.

Again, this is merely heresay, though the information and source is about as close to the GW design team as an outsider can be.

Food for thought.

[lattd]

If this is true it would explain why the other marine chapters did not get the storm raven in white dwarf.

[Duke]

That would be really, really cool! I have always thought that it would only be a matter of time before GW does such madness!

@Lattd: You aren't suggesting that the T-Hawk would be available for marines in regular play are you? If so, I would stomp that thought out of your head. lol

Duke

[wittdooley]

Again, this is heresay, but like I said, he's a very reliable source that is a close friend with a great number of miniature sculptures.

I'll also point to the fact that in the previous issue of WD, they mentioned that the plastic T-Hawk was talked about with the design team.

To me, a few big kit flyers make sense. They sold the hell out of those Baneblade kits. They have to know they'd sell 2+ plastic T-Hawks to nearly every marine player.

[DrLove42]

As a non-marine player who plays a lot of Apoc please let this be utterly false

Seriously, i know it'll drive all the marine players nuts and make a ton of money for GW, but for every other army, a super heavy flier IN PLASTIC will completly ruin apoc for me.

Whereas a marine player gets access to plastic super heavy tanks and fliers, everyone else has to pay through the nose for FW pieces. Yes if everyone gets plastic fliers it'll rebalence things a bit, but not as much as it should.

[Rant Over]

P.s Seeing as we heard "strong" rumours from "trusted sources" last year some time of plastic Eldar Superheavies...I don't hold my breath for this. The plastic T-Hawk is just an internet fanboys pipedream

[lattd]

I was thinking more along the lines of Apocalypse, I know there's ally rules but i would have expected a comment box saying storm ravens can be used by the following armies in apocalypse, which did not happen. Possibly this can be explained by a plastic thunderhawk, which could then lead to a Apocalypse formation which is 1 hawk and 3 ravens. GW makes lots of money all xeno's players are sad and marines take even more space on the shelf.

[Lerra]

I wouldn't worry about balance too much, as long as GW also makes a few plastic flyers for non-marine armies or anti-air formation. Interceptors like the Lightning will do very well against Thunderhawks. Chaos Marines can pretty easily corrupt a plastic thunderhawk for their own army, too.

[wittdooley]

[Rant Over]

P.s Seeing as we heard "strong" rumours from "trusted sources" last year some time of plastic Eldar Superheavies...I don't hold my breath for this. The plastic T-Hawk is just an internet fanboys pipedream

Here's the deal, though. They mentioned the Plastic Thunderhawk in White Dwarf. That, to me, is huge.

Secondly, 50% + of GWs gamer base plays some form of Marine. Sorry Xenos-only guy, but that's the truth of it. Further, IG players could use them as well.

Eldar Plastic super heavy sells to....Eldar Players only. Marine Plastic Flyer sells to: Nilla Marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Inquisition, SoB, and potentially regular Guard.

[Drew da Destroya]

/cynical

This rumor again?

This falls into the realm of "I'll believe it when I see it" for me, unfortunately. It seems that every year we get a "source" like this. I'm not trying to disparage you personally, nor your source, but it's becoming very much the "boy who cried 'hawk" to me.

It'd be cool, that's for sure. Maybe the Brick Raven was a prototype to see if they could get the level of detail they wanted? (Boxy? Check. Guns? Check. Wings? Check. Boxy? Check.)

I'd be more excited for a plastic Fighta Bomma or Razorwing Fighter, but that's because I'm Mr. Xenos guy, and I'll accept that stigma.

[Fellend]

It'd be cool, that's for sure. Maybe the Brick Raven was a prototype to see if they could get the level of detail they wanted? (Boxy? Check. Guns? Check. Wings? Check. Boxy? Check.).

This made me laugh loud enough to wake my neighbour... and it's not even that funny

[DrLove42]

Secondly, 50% + of GWs gamer base plays some form of Marine. Sorry Xenos-only guy, but that's the truth of it. Further, IG players could use them as well.

Eldar Plastic super heavy sells to....Eldar Players only. Marine Plastic Flyer sells to: Nilla Marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Inquisition, SoB, and potentially regular Guard.

How many armies does a plastic Stompa sell to?

Or a plastic Trygon, which until recently was a Gargantuan creature?

And i long ago accepted GW's 50%+ marine ratio....doesn't mean i'm ever too happy about it :P

[isotope99]

Eldar Plastic super heavy sells to....Eldar Players only. Marine Plastic Flyer sells to: Nilla Marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Inquisition, SoB, and potentially regular Guard.

Orks can loot anything :cool:

[wittdooley]

How many armies does a plastic Stompa sell to?

Or a plastic Trygon, which until recently was a Gargantuan creature?

And i long ago accepted GW's 50%+ marine ratio....doesn't mean i'm ever too happy about it :P

These don't make any sense in regard to the discussion. The Trygon is in the Tyranid dex. As for the Stompa... Its an ork thing. From my expereince, ork players are massive hoarders and believe in a very WAAGH mentality if one is good, then 6 is great!

Be cynical all you want, I suppose. Dude hinted to our folks about the Arachnarok about 4 months ago, and again, THEY MENTIONED THE PLASTIC THUNDERHAWK IN WHITE DWARF.

I think igoring that they've published comments about it is ignorant.

[Defenestratus]

I've heard that the plastic thawk is being pushed for summer but will likely get delayed until christmas.

Also he mentioned an Eldar/DE plastic flier that can be used to build a variety of both Eldar and Dark eldar fliers - which irritates my existing eldar airforce, but whatever.

[DrLove42]

These don't make any sense in regard to the discussion. The Trygon is in the Tyranid dex. As for the Stompa... Its an ork thing. From my expereince, ork players are massive hoarders and believe in a very WAAGH mentality if one is good, then 6 is great!

Be cynical all you want, I suppose. Dude hinted to our folks about the Arachnarok about 4 months ago, and again, THEY MENTIONED THE PLASTIC THUNDERHAWK IN WHITE DWARF.

I think igoring that they've published comments about it is ignorant.

It makes total sense to the argument. You basically said an Eldar Superheavy in plastic wouldn't happen cos it only helps one army. Frankly it'd help 3...eldar, dark eldar and yeah Orks cos they'll loot anything

And who says only ork players buy multiples of units? If you're a marine player how many land raiders do you have? I have over 10,000 points of eldar, multiples of many things...and would have more if i didn't have to buy FW and pay 3 times the price that the imperium need to for super heavies!

And (i'm not saying your lying i just don't remember) where did it say about a plastic Thunderhawk in WD? I vaguely remember someone talking about wishing they'd do one, just to satisfy the fanbase, but nothing about them actually working on it.

[isotope99]

We've dicussed doing a plastic thunderhawk time and time again, and I'm in no way ruling it out, but the idea was floated about doing a smaller gunship

February WD re. storm raven

p21 WD374

[Brass Scorpion]

Most of us would love to see such a kit and given the status of this rumor now as the eternal "thing that wouldn't die", it would be great to see that there is going to be a Thunderhawk model kit release in order to nudge the angry online arguments along to another topic. Otherwise, it's just one more instance for the time being of, "show's over, nothing to see here folks, move along".

[Lerra]

I could see a smaller variant plastic Thunderhawk if it was the size of a baneblade or stompa. The Forgeworld Thunderhawk is huge - way too big for a plastic kit imo. We've already got many variants and sizes for Titans. It wouldn't be a huge stretch to have a half-size "Lucius-Pattern Thunderhawk" or whatever for ~$120. That would certainly sell well.

[Lane]

The Forgeworld Thunderhawk is huge - way too big for a plastic kit imo.

I have to disagree with you. Ever seen the GW Thunderhawk? It was Huge for a metal kit.

based on the box and sprue size for the Baneblade they should be able to build the hull in 2-3 sections. Each section could be about 8" long based on sprue size. probably take 10 - 12 sprues but that would still fit in the Baneblade size box.

[Brass Scorpion]

Ever seen the GW Thunderhawk? It was Huge for a metal kit.I've seen it, but only ever unassembled in its original wooden packing crate with the only exception being the pictures in White Dwarf of the ones built at the GW studio. Virtually no one who bought that metal monstrosity ever built it.

[wittdooley]

I never said they wouldn't make an Eldar Plastic. I simply said it makes more sense to make a Marine one FIRST. I have to disagree about an Eldar flyer being used for both Eldar contingencies. The Dark Eldar aesthetic is FAR different than the regular Eldar aesthetic. None of their ships look alike.

I've had the opportunity to help build one of the FW resin Thunderhawks. Both I and the person I built it with agreed it was one of the worst kits we'd ever built. Really hard to put together. Lots of warping due to the nature of big resing pieces (I had this same problem with my Caestus Assault Ram). And despite being resin, heavy as hell. Plus, it's $650 bucks. Now, I don't know, but I can't imagine they sell THAT many of them. However, would they be able to sell four $120-$150 models. Without question.

I have trouble believing that the Storm Raven wasn't a test run. Their plastic technology is becoming so good, it seems like an inevitiablity. They wouldn't have mentioned it, even in passing, in WD otherwise.

Isotope-- Good looking out finding that page and quote.

[Wildeybeast]

February WD re. storm raven

p21 WD374

I think You've read that wrong. If you read it all, Jes Goodwin is clearly saying that they want to expand the marine range, away from Tanks. So they want to do a flyer/skimmer transport, rather than Thunderhawk.

I'm not saying they won't as it will sell a bundle, but I get the impression that they don't want Forgeworld to simply become a prototype factory for future GW plastic kits and want to design their own stuff.

[wittdooley]

I don't know how you misinterpret that quotation, but you've done it. He says plainly that they've discussed a plastic thunderhawk and that he isn't ruling it out.

As for FW being a prototyping factory: why wouldn't it be? Id guess that the only reason some of the kits weren't done it plastic orginally was because the technology wasn't there and they didn't want to do them in metal (ie Trygon). I'm actually still amazed that a Hive Tyrant isn't in plastic yet.

Precedents for FW to regular GW include:

the aforementioned Trygon
Valkyire
Leman Russ Variants
IG artillary Variants
Baneblades

I know that's not enough, but it's enough, and they're all high demand kits that make sense to get in higher production than FW. I think we're close enough that the plastic T-Hawk is moving from being a pipe dream into the realm of eventuality.

[DrLove42]

Mwa ha ha! I've come back to disagree some more :P

Seriously apoligise if i'm coming across as deliberatly argumentative...but

FW isn't a prototyping house. The manta? reavers? Phantom titans? never gonna be plastic...

If anything they're a rare component house. The demand for flyers, titans, unusual tank turrets etc etc isn't as high as GW models so the higher cost with rarer moulds is fine for small batch orders.

Unfortunatly i binned that issue of WD a few days ago in a big tidy up so can't check your wording. If its true maybe its a good thing. Maybe it opens the doors for more races models (still got my fingers crossed for that Scorpion).

As for its size, the fortress of Redemption, the Baneblades and the Shrine of the Aquila are moving towards bigger models. But even then the Thunderhawk is probably a bit too big.

I suspect its just more people putting 1 and 1 together and getting 3 because 3 is what they want to hear, not 2. But i'll be ready to be suprised in a few months/year.

[wittdooley]

Mwa ha ha! I've come back to disagree some more :P

Seriously apoligise if i'm coming across as deliberatly argumentative...but

Again, we're good :)



FW isn't a prototyping house. The manta? reavers? Phantom titans? never gonna be plastic...

If anything they're a rare component house. The demand for flyers, titans, unusual tank turrets etc etc isn't as high as GW models so the higher cost with rarer moulds is fine for small batch orders.
As for its size, the fortress of Redemption, the Baneblades and the Shrine of the Aquila are moving towards bigger models. But even then the Thunderhawk is probably a bit too big.

I suspect its just more people putting 1 and 1 together and getting 3 because 3 is what they want to hear, not 2. But i'll be ready to be suprised in a few months/year.

I agree totally. It's not a prototyping house, but I think in the past it's been a test market for how well a particular model will sell. As we presently stand with what GW has shown they can do with plastics, I think we'll see more adaptations of tanks, etc.

To me, FW is their premium model house. It's for experienced modellers and people heavily invested in the hobby. As such, I don't expect (and quite frankly, don't really need) to ever see plastic Titans, or plastic Death Korps, or other speciality versions of things. I'm 100% down with that. I'd love to see FW eventually do lines of the other, lesser known IG regiments. Keep the Cadians and the Jungle dudes (their name presently escapes me) as the basic lines.

The Thunderhawk, to me, is a bit of an anomoly in all of this. First, as I said already, there would be a huge market for it. The only reason every Marine player doesn't have one now is the cost. I'd love to buy one, but I'd be castrated if I did (though for some reason $300 purses are okay.....). Price it under $200. I'm totally in. The way to do that is putting it in plastic. The present T-Hawk is about the size of the Fortress of redemption. They've proven that they can do big kits in plastic, so there's some precedent. Further, I believe the source of the information. Now, that's completely fair if others don't want to, I totally understand.


For me, it breaks down like this. I've got three solid reasons why I THINK it'll happen (Ability to produce them, quote in white dwarf, 1st party source). They're all reasonble, so I guess we'll see.

[Denzark]

I'm not saying this IS DEFINITELY GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE LIFE OF MY FIRSTBORN.

But, lets consider:

1. Technology there? Given super heavy size kits and constant investment in new plasitc moulds, I'd say yes.

2. SH transfer from FW to GW main before? Yes many times the parent company has reproduced something that steps on the toes of the FW.

3. Talk about the PRINCIPLE of it in WD? Yes as quoted.

4. Would it sell? Does the Pope poo in the woods?

5. GW need a mahoosive boost of sales in the face of losses? Reckon so.


Given all these affirmatives, why would they not? The only question is the timing and lack of marketing of the summer of flyers. Quite possibly the moulds initial cost set up is not acceptable in the face of reduced profit.

I therefore assess the plastic Thunderhawk as an inevitability. Because GW marketing and timings make no sense to me I can't say yez or nez now, but at some point, so if this is kosher intelligence to Wittdooley, he could be right.

[wittdooley]

Because GW marketing and timings make no sense to me I can't say yez or nez now,

I don't think it's just you :)

[eldargal]

Hell, even I'd buy a plastic thunderhawk for my Astral Kittens, and I dislike constant Marine releases as much as the next Xenos player (and yes I understand why).
The rumours were that the Eldar superheavy was ready for production, but release had been pushed back for some reason. I would speculate that they want one or two non-Xenos superheavies to go out alongside the Thunderhawk or even soon after. Or before.:rolleyes:
Stickmonkey on Warseer also said he had heard recently that there was not going to be a combined Eldar/Dark Eldar kit, but we should get one each.
He also said the flyer expansion is an Apocalypse expansion, not a regular expansion, so no need to worry about plastic fliers in 1500pt lists (beyond those we already have obviously)


Some updates.

First, let me apologize for being dark. I have been negotiating a carreer move and it looks like it will happen. More on that down the road. But I am looking for a home in Texas...yee haw, back to the states.

To the business at hand, this is what I know.

The "summer of flyers" (again, temper this name, it's not much more than spearhead was) article in wd if it happens will be an apoc expansion...not basic game. To include formations, special strategies, etc. About what anyone would expect.

The specific plastics for the wave release passed QA. Yeah! And include the following

Ig hydra
De r-wing
Ork copta
Nid harpy
There may be a few other surprises. It is apoc after all.

However, no one seems to be certain if these items will be released together as a wave right now. There is a lot of back and forth as to how best to put them out...flyer related dump, or wait and do army based updates, meaning a ig wave, a de wave, etc. There is strong desire to complete the de models before the next codex release after GK. I don't think it's possible based on where some of the outstanding models are in the process...and what has to be done for that codex. Only so many people to do the work. You can't put 3 women together and get a baby in 3 months, right?

No craft world eldar models will be included here. And there is a reason for it, but I can't go into it yet. And no codex on immediate horizon, to keep people from getting excited...

Also, the de void flyer will not make a summer debut...its a big model...comparatively, and there are other challenges facing it...but it is coming eventually, hopefully before fall.

My information comes direct this time, but the decisions about what and when to release things I am not privy to...wd will already be set in stone by now and so someone(s) already knows what is and isn't happening in this, just not I...

Cheers. Hopefully this is more exact information certain individuals want to see. But as always, subject to change.

[SotonShades]

Looks like my Armoured Company and Kopta Force will both be getting some upgrades in the not too distant future...

I love Apocolypse. I hate DrLove's FW Flyers, mostly because they keep killing mine! It would be great to see this summer of flyers, but with all this uncertainty this close to where we'd be expecting the release (June/July) it is begginning to sound more and more unlikely. Maybe GW will push it back so Santa is the only thing in the skys above Nottingham.

[Xas]

FW not beeing a prototype factory?

Well it is not COMPLETELY but rather because some of the things won't make sense for a conversion to normal GW production because of design or economical reason:

marine shoulder pads/tank doors dont make sense as stand-alone plastic sets because if shelf space and sice. in metall they'd be as expensive as FW and so are neither feasible. Including them in a chapter specific release doesnt make sense because the product will sell regardless of doors/shoulder pads (they simply make a new design fitting to that chapter so the customer can choose from two variants were incidentally one costs a premium ;)) and so would reduce FW income without increasings GWs.

infantry/tank upgrades follow the above formulae but make sense to be included as stand alone kits if demand is high enough and a spot is free (plastic krieg/greatcoat/ the new eldar vehicle haveing much in comon with FW upgrade packs!).

stand-alone models/hobby products are simply a question of cost/demand/profit/risk/technology.
I'd take everyones bet that we'd one day see titan kits directly from GW if the game takes off in that direction (and doesnt for example takes a 180° spin and leads to skirmish again) and the sales are good. judging from my own titan purchases at FW the sales are not worth a plastic conversion as of now (less than 700 mars pattern warhound bodies sold since the release of the model ages ago as of this christmas! less than 150 reaver bodies sold within the timespan of 1 year after release!)


I cannot speak on thunderhawk sales as I havent bought one of them due to size and beeing mostly IG (3 titans are more fun and fitting thatn 2 thunderhawks) but from a small questioning in my local play group thse things are mainly untouched because of price, weight and the fame of poor quality. If the design is intelligent (like the new stormraven which's wings are snap-fit and hold without glue on the chassi if you want to keep it small for transport!) and the price fine (same save-down from pure resin as the baneblade was or the trygon so 1/3 of price) the apocalypse crew would buy around 2 of them per person (that includes those that dont play SM).

With an iconic centerpiece of their most-sold model line (marines, all chapters as well as chaos!) there is no way that this product if done right (and that is prolly why GW is delaying it. they want it 110% perfect; basically what they did with the DE line) will not sell like fresh water in the desert.

we will see what comes but the question about the plastic thunderhawk is only a question of time (unless some unknown issues kill gw/humanity before it comes out ;) ).

[Rapture]

With an iconic centerpiece of their most-sold model line (marines, all chapters as well as chaos!) there is no way that this product if done right (and that is prolly why GW is delaying it. they want it 110% perfect; basically what they did with the DE line) will not sell like fresh water in the desert.

Everyone always says this but I just don't see it. On a normal 4 x 6 table these things are obnoxiously huge. 19in x 17in is massive (two couldn't deploy across from each other, they would be at most 10in away). Especially for something that flies. I know that plenty of people play apocalypse, but once average players start thinking about what else they could get for the money I think that they will be hesitant. It all depends on the price. I'm not sure that GW could realistically sell it for less than $150.

[wittdooley]

Everyone always says this but I just don't see it. On a normal 4 x 6 table these things are obnoxiously huge. 19in x 17in is massive (two couldn't deploy across from each other, they would be at most 10in away). Especially for something that flies. I know that plenty of people play apocalypse, but once average players start thinking about what else they could get for the money I think that they will be hesitant. It all depends on the price. I'm not sure that GW could realistically sell it for less than $150.

Reeeeeaaaaallllly? They sold an asston of 14 inch Baneblades at $100. They sold an asston of 12 inch tall Stompas at $100. They sell out of their $250 paint kit every time they release it. I personally think that a $150 Thunderhawk would be an easy sell, particularly as it would be a $500 price drop from the present model.

[Defenestratus]

Everyone always says this but I just don't see it. On a normal 4 x 6 table these things are obnoxiously huge. 19in x 17in is massive (two couldn't deploy across from each other, they would be at most 10in away). Especially for something that flies. I know that plenty of people play apocalypse, but once average players start thinking about what else they could get for the money I think that they will be hesitant. It all depends on the price. I'm not sure that GW could realistically sell it for less than $150.

My vampire is 18" by 16.5" - and the base is 12" x 12".

It would not work well on a normal 4x6 or even 4x8 board. I had a hard time finding a place to put it on a 12 x 8 board with 74,000 pts of stuff all over the table even though its 24" off the table surface in the air.

[Lerra]

I agree - the current Thunderhawk is way too big for a single 4x6 table. Not to mention that there is a size limit to GW's plastic sprue manufacturing process. When the Baneblade and Stompa kits were released, GW explained that they had recently stretched the limit for what's possible to make with their injection molding system, and that's why those kits were possible. I don't see GW stretching things enough to make a full-size plastic thunderhawk, though.

I'd rather have a half-size variant thunderhawk anyway - easier transport, easier to assemble and paint, and it's still a huge centerpiece for an army. Plus, that way they could still squeeze more money out of the FW Thunderhawk molds. I'm sure some people would still want to buy the full-size model.

[wittdooley]

I'd be really curious to know just how many Thunderhawks have been sold. I really can't believe its that many. If we can use the Reaver numbers (around 200) as a base, then I can't imagine that many more T-Hawks have been sold due to the price point.

I don't know if it would really be a stretch with what they can do with plastic. It would essentially be two baneblade tracks back to back. No reason they have to create a larger sprue to do it.

[Maelstorm]

Forgeworld Thunderhawk. Grid scale is in inches...
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz246/bbrine01/DSC01900.jpg

The mold quality is hidious. Warped panels abound, thin spots in material, thick spots in material, mold/flash lines that completely obscure details, HUGE sprue plugs still attached...

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz246/bbrine01/DSC01904.jpg



They should be embarrased to ship it - the mold needs to be reworked or retired.


.

[wittdooley]

They should be embarrased to ship it - the mold needs to reworked or retired.


.

See, another reason why it would make perfect sense to do it in plastic. Like i'm sure Maelstorm can attest, the resin kit was just abysmal to work with.

[Denzark]

I agree - the current Thunderhawk is way too big for a single 4x6 table. Not to mention that there is a size limit to GW's plastic sprue manufacturing process. When the Baneblade and Stompa kits were released, GW explained that they had recently stretched the limit for what's possible to make with their injection molding system, and that's why those kits were possible. I don't see GW stretching things enough to make a full-size plastic thunderhawk, though.

I'd rather have a half-size variant thunderhawk anyway - easier transport, easier to assemble and paint, and it's still a huge centerpiece for an army. Plus, that way they could still squeeze more money out of the FW Thunderhawk molds. I'm sure some people would still want to buy the full-size model.

this for me is the key factor - when they do stretch this limit, they will release immediately.

[L192837465]

I don't even play the game anymore and I'd buy that model. Not even a question.

[Defenestratus]

Forgeworld Thunderhawk. Grid scale is in inches...
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz246/bbrine01/DSC01900.jpg

The mold quality is hidious. Warped panels abound, thin spots in material, thick spots in material, mold/flash lines that completely obscure details, HUGE sprue plugs still attached...

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz246/bbrine01/DSC01904.jpg



They should be embarrased to ship it - the mold needs to reworked or retired.


.

Sadly, this type of product is indicative of all FW kits. When I received my last nightwing batch, one of them looked like it had been laid on top of a basketball on a hot day. I spent hours getting it usable and I still had the glue the wings in instead of using the articulation mechanism because it was so bad.

[wittdooley]

Sadly, this type of product is indicative of all FW kits. When I received my last nightwing batch, one of them looked like it had been laid on top of a basketball on a hot day. I spent hours getting it usable and I still had the glue the wings in instead of using the articulation mechanism because it was so bad.

All kits? I've only had a problem with my armor. Every figure has been great. My Caestus was rough too.

[Maelstorm]

To add insult to injury - Even the brand new Thunderhawk is delivered straight from Forgeworld in nothing but a few zip-top plastic bags and a single layer of bubble wrap! The huge-heavy parts have travelled for 2 weeks bashing around all of the little parts. Lots of minor repair required on brittle pieces - some of the smaller broken pieces had to be rebuilt out of plasticard.

US $650.00??

[JxKxR]

To add insult to injury - Even the brand new Thunderhawk is delivered straight from Forgeworld in nothing but a few zip-top plastic bags and a single layer of bubble wrap! The huge-heavy parts have travelled for 2 weeks bashing around all of the little parts. Lots of minor repair required on brittle pieces - some of the smaller broken pieces had to be rebuilt out of plasticard.

US $650.00??

I really get a sick feeling when I stop and think about how much this game cost. :(

[Maelstorm]

Even the simplest things have been a headache to build on this kit: The front access ramp took 1 hour to trim and fit - yes, it was that bad...

It is sad to see the exceptional detail on one piece only to pick up the next to find mismatched mold-lines and so much excess material on the mold lines that all of the details are lost in a long thick blob of resin.

Pieces that are too warped to glue together have to be cut apart, trimmed/sanded, glued in place and then gap-filled to hide the rework. I'm about 80% of the way through it now. I look forword to getting this off my bench...

[Dalleron]

To the one who was asking how many Thunderhawks have been sold.

I know this guy who just got a Thawk less than a month ago. It came with a paper that has a number on it. His was 13XX, if i remember correctly. We took that as that his was that number made.

[Xas]

I agree - the current Thunderhawk is way too big for a single 4x6 table. Not to mention that there is a size limit to GW's plastic sprue manufacturing process.

I take and accept your point of feasability on a normal table but the size limit of plastic sprues certainly isnt an issue anymore.

Have you every had the joy of assembling one of the Dark-Angel Fortresses (mine's now a khorne one :D)?

The hughe angel-panels of the main tower are ONE PART (per side obviously) with only the base-structure beeing a 2nd (so in total the tower is 8 parts + top & seeker lights)


On the issue of feasability and size I really love the approach that both the valkyrie and stormraven took: a propper flying base that has a rather small actual footprint compared to the model.

I dont care (and if I'm concearned they could have their heads explode from all the arguing, I and my guys will have our fun UNDER our fliers regardless) for the rules lawyers but it really provides for a great feeling to have a big model on the table without it takeing up hughe maneuvring space!


I guess (and therefore I thank you for bringing up the issue of size!) the thing GW is so takeing time on is getting a flying stand that works (even if its lighter than a resin one I assume 3 baneblades worth of amterial will not be "light" in any way and so the stress on a flying stand would be immense).

[eldargal]

I'm not sure why the table size has come up, the Thunderhawk would be a Apocalypse only kit same as it is now, just like the Stompa and Baneblade. Lets face it, practically every SM player wants one, but most aren't willing, or can't afford,to spend four hundred pounds on a FW product. If GW produces it in plastic, it will sell I've no doubt, in large numbers too.

Xas is right about the manufacturing, too. Several people in the know said the Stompa and the Fortress of Redemption were both GW testing their capacity to produce larger and larger kits. They now think, so the rumours said, they either have the capacity to produce a TH or soon will.

[SotonShades]

On the issue of feasability and size I really love the approach that both the valkyrie and stormraven took: a propper flying base that has a rather small actual footprint compared to the model.

I dont care (and if I'm concearned they could have their heads explode from all the arguing, I and my guys will have our fun UNDER our fliers regardless) for the rules lawyers but it really provides for a great feeling to have a big model on the table without it takeing up hughe maneuvring space!


I guess (and therefore I thank you for bringing up the issue of size!) the thing GW is so takeing time on is getting a flying stand that works (even if its lighter than a resin one I assume 3 baneblades worth of amterial will not be "light" in any way and so the stress on a flying stand would be immense).

When the Valk kit came out I tested the flying stand with several kilograms of textbooks. It took some effort to balance them, but the clear plastic wasn't significantly stressed until there were a pile of book i wouldn't want to lift in one go (clear plastic tends to cloud up when stressed before deforming. Basicly, if you were careful about the placement of the stand, you should be able to sit a metal Thunderhawk on a flyind stand (though I'd recommend a larger base than the oval one we get) so a resin wouldn't be too much of an issue, let alone plastic. Those stands are ridiculously over engineered for the mass of a Valkyrie and I'm fairly certain GW produced it with the intention of using it with bigger kits in the future.

[Defenestratus]

All kits? I've only had a problem with my armor. Every figure has been great. My Caestus was rough too.

Yes, every single kit I've ordered from FW has had major problems. Mostly warping that took hours to correct and never did look 100%.

My vampire wing tips are still turned up at the tips. It makes me cringe.

As for those clear plastic stands. Those things are rubbish for fliers. RUBBISH! They are only moderately taller than the skimmer bases and aren't really befitting a plane flying around the battlefield.

[eldargal]

I do wonder if people living further away from FW have more problems than those living closer due to heat and prolonged bouncing about. FW could certainly back things better but if they get hot they wil warp anyway. I've ordered quite a bit from FW, as have my brothers, and we've only had relatively minor problems. Easily corrected warping, a little flash, etc.

[Rapture]

I'm not sure why the table size has come up, the Thunderhawk would be a Apocalypse only kit same as it is now, just like the Stompa and Baneblade. Lets face it, practically every SM player wants one, but most aren't willing, or can't afford,to spend four hundred pounds on a FW product. If GW produces it in plastic, it will sell I've no doubt, in large numbers too.

Practically every space marine player says that they want one. Size is important because models have to based, stored, and transported. Size is one of the reasons that most people have warhound titans instead of the bigger ones. The hassle that a large model creates isn't always worth the seasonal Apocalypse game where it makes an appearance (see: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/01/apocalypse-scratchbuilding-cautionary.html).

[Defenestratus]

I do wonder if people living further away from FW have more problems than those living closer due to heat and prolonged bouncing about. FW could certainly back things better but if they get hot they wil warp anyway. I've ordered quite a bit from FW, as have my brothers, and we've only had relatively minor problems. Easily corrected warping, a little flash, etc.

I personally have no issues with the way stuff is packed. They use boxes that do crumble around the edges but seem to sacrifice themselves to protect the innards. The bubble wrap that they use could be thicker, but then again you don't want the packaging putting pressure on the contents themselves.

I live in a "tropical paradise" so I always insist on a tracking number so the box doesn't sit on my front door stoop for more than a couple of minutes. Still makes no matter as the UPS trucks are un-airconditioned.

[Maelstorm]

To the one who was asking how many Thunderhawks have been sold.

I know this guy who just got a Thawk less than a month ago. It came with a paper that has a number on it. His was 13XX, if i remember correctly. We took that as that his was that number made.

I have the paperwork on the bench at home, I'll check the number. It is about a month old too.

[Ghost of War]

I always wanted a Vampire Hunter, but honestly the size and weight along with the size of the base it would require made me standoff-ish. In Apoc there is so much terrian your really limited to where you can put the thing. The same would go for a Thunderhawk as I would class them similarly. Not sure if the hawk would weigh more than the Vamp or not though.

I have painted a TigerShark AX10 and it sits on a wooden clockface. I kept it low to the ground due to its weight and my not wanting it to EVER tip over.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=26212&id=100001306126270&l=dfe984233b

The link has a Tigershark, Baracuda, and Nightwing on it.. as well as a Revanant Titan, CobraII and ScorpionII

[wittdooley]

Dude... Your flyers look badazz. I want one simply to have as a show piece!

[DrLove42]

Just remember, when counting how many have been sold there are 2 Thunderhawks! The gunship and the transporter

[Defenestratus]

I always wanted a Vampire Hunter, but honestly the size and weight along with the size of the base it would require made me standoff-ish. In Apoc there is so much terrian your really limited to where you can put the thing. The same would go for a Thunderhawk as I would class them similarly. Not sure if the hawk would weigh more than the Vamp or not though.

I have painted a TigerShark AX10 and it sits on a wooden clockface. I kept it low to the ground due to its weight and my not wanting it to EVER tip over.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=26212&id=100001306126270&l=dfe984233b

The link has a Tigershark, Baracuda, and Nightwing on it.. as well as a Revanant Titan, CobraII and ScorpionII

I hear you about the vampire base. Its a pain yes but the model is epic.

I designed mine to be collapsible so I can put everything in a box and transport it easily.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lC_vd4kcJPRlnVsa6EizbCjllCFYspwwuf1uR58WR1I?feat=d irectlink

[JMichael]

He also said the flyer expansion is an Apocalypse expansion, not a regular expansion, so no need to worry about plastic fliers in 1500pt lists (beyond those we already have obviously)

That makes me a lot happier. I was worried about them coming out with cool models and crappy rules to try and fit them into regular 40k. A flyer expansion (even if WD only) for Apocalypse is much needed and would be welcomed in our group for sure!
I am waiting on buying my nightwing till this summer (hoping for plastics).

[Kawauso]

Personally, I am hoping that the 'Summer of Fliers', if it turns out to be true, is based around fast skimmer 'aircraft' (a la Valkyries, Stormravens, Voidravens, etc.) for regular games. I don't really play huge Apocalypse battles and I don't like the 'flier' rules...

I think the fast skimmer aircraft that have shown up in recent codices are the way to go about this.

[Daemonette666]

The number 13xx should be the number for the particular country, not for the entire world. A mate bought one 4 months ago, and he is an ex GW staff member. He said it meant that his was the ??? what ever his number was Thunderhawk ever delivered to Australia. It must be popular enough for Battle Foam to have enough orders annually to make a special foam insert for it. They have not even made one for the shadowsword, but they make one for 2 Bane Blades.

That reminds me I need to go to my local Gaming shop and get another 1520 XL for my painted vehicles and super heavies. Has anyone else purchased them? if so have you had zippers lose teeth, or had the stand/foot on the front of the 1520 break? Mine has, though it could be because it holds mostly pewter miniatures, roughly 200 pewter and the the other 150 plastic and resin, not including the tanks. I guess it weighs about 20 - 25 kg.

Speaking of the summer of fliers, it would be great once the Choas Marine codex comes out if they got a drop pod and fliers/skimmers like giant daemon war machine with mechanical wings. Imagine what the Eldar will get, new variants of the falconm or wave serpent that have an open topped bay to allow troops to assault the turn they disembark? tau and Necrons should get some decent heavier vehicles, and the Tau should get a heavy infantry/monster unit to make up for the lack of close combat. maybe a uber-Kroot Biped something about the size of an Ogryn equipped with a big nasty pair of weapons, or a heavy 2 handed weapon option that counts as a power weapon. Just idea I have been thinking of.

[Absolon]

Not sure if this is an actual box or a good photoshop. If it's the real deal my guard will be going for air superiority this summer.

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc337/deathstrike01/box_thunderbolt.jpg

[DrLove42]

Thats a shop. And a gorram terrible one at that.

[facelessone]

im hopeing that all 40k armys get a flyer,id like too see a necron flyer.....and that TH id buy it 4 my chaos...

[Lemt]

Thats a shop. And a gorram terrible one at that.

+1 to that. It's a shoopdawoop. Whoever did it was either not trying, or was very bad.

[Lerra]

Whoever did it was either not trying, or was very bad.

All the more evidence that this pic comes from GW.

Kidding.

Only a little.

[AngelsofDeath]

I would easily pay $100 for the TH model. It would be at least double the size of the Stormraven. The other flyers would be in between I figure.

[Wildeybeast]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=16200020a

So, I guess this announcement kills the 'summer of flyers' stone dead. I can't see GW releasing 2 big expansions in the same summer. Looks exciting for all us Warhammer players though.

[Lerra]

Not neccessarily. I always figured the Summer of Flyers would be a White Dwarf release. It's not a huge stretch to have an expansion book and a White Dwarf expansion in the same summer, especially if there aren't any codex releases.

[Brass Scorpion]

The Summer Of Fliers is the Storm Of Magic. Unless by "fliers" people meant demons, dragons and griffins (or demons and gryphonnes in the proprietary alternate GW spellings) and the like, Summer Of Fliers would appear to be a bust.

Summer Of Fliers, killed before it had a chance to live. Farewell, Summer Of Fliers, you will be missed, if it's possible to miss something that never happened in the first place. Maybe another year you'll get to ravage the war-torn 41st Millennium. Bye-bye. *sniff*

[Defenestratus]

The Summer Of Fliers is the Storm Of Magic. Unless by "fliers" people meant demons, dragons and griffins (or demons and gryphonnes in the proprietary alternate GW spellings) and the like, Summer Of Fliers would appear to be a bust.

Summer Of Fliers, killed before it had a chance to live. Farewell, Summer Of Fliers, you will be missed, if it's possible to miss something that never happened in the first place. Maybe another year you'll get to ravage the war-torn 41st Millennium. Bye-bye. *sniff*

Can't say I'm really sad. I'm one of those "suckers" who have invested in resin fliers :P

[wittdooley]

Can't say I'm really sad. I'm one of those "suckers" who have invested in resin fliers :P

Looks like I can safely order my Imperial Thunderbolt without feeling too awful in 3 months.

[Lane]

Summer Of Fliers, you will be missed, if it's possible to miss something that never happened in the first place. Maybe another year you'll get to ravage the war-torn 41st Millennium. Bye-bye. *sniff*

Well if Storm of Magic sucks as badly as it sounds then we can mourn the lack of summer supplements that are useful.

[Denzark]

I'm sorry, did I miss something?

What explicitly or simply implied, that the specifically 40K summer of fliers which I believed was mentioned directly as such in WD, is now kiboshed?

[Lockark]

I'm sorry, did I miss something?

What explicitly or simply implied, that the specifically 40K summer of fliers which I believed was mentioned directly as such in WD, is now kiboshed?

Well. We just got the announcement that this is being released this July, and it's been stated there putting out large beasty kits and scenery kits to go with the expansion.

Unless there planing on surprising us, I think it's safe to assume it's not happening. (Atleast this year)

[Brass Scorpion]

Now some people are claiming this "Summer Of Fliers will happen in August and be called "Wartorn Skies". And how many new kits are supposedly going to be released for this expansion? Rumors started at one new flier kit for nearly every army and more recently had been cut back to as little as two! Not really a "Summer Of Fliers" any longer, not much of one anyway. :D

[Lockark]

If that is true, I have one question.

How long it will take them to offer the plastic Imperial Flier with a Spiky sprue as the "newest chaos release."


:rolleyes:

[isotope99]

Now some people are claiming this "Summer Of Fliers will happen in August and be called "Wartorn Skies". And how many new kits are supposedly going to be released for this expansion? Rumors started at one new flier kit for nearly every army and more recently had been cut back to as little as two! Not really a "Summer Of Fliers" any longer, not much of one anyway. :D

If it's going to be White Dwarf only, I think that we could still see it, but on a spearhead scale (i.e. minor tweaks to the rule set and force org chart rather than any huge changes). They need something to fill the summer months that are usually light on new codices and we have no new edition of the core rules coming this year.

I don't think we'll see any off codex releases. Strongest candidates would therefore seem to be:


Tyranid Harpy (clearly more useful than the Tervigon :rolleyes:)
IG Hydra (also good for riflemen dreads)
Ork Deffkoptas (easy release as can be based on Black Reach design, but with all weapon options like the Nobs release)
Dark Eldar Razorwing (in June, Void Raven looks to be coming later)

[DrLove42]

Hmmm...my first thought when I got the email yesterday was it meant we wouldn't see SoF now. But if the Fantasy one is released as a seperate book, and the 40K one as a WD guess its still possible.

My only point is by this time last year hadn't GW already had an "Incoming!" for Spearhead already? Even though that was a WD thing, and that only came with 1 or 2 new models for 2 armies.

Fliers and AA tanks, unlike the Spearhead stuff, have to be an everyone gets something or no one does (except guard with the valks and BA and GK with the raven). If some armies get fliers and AA weapons, but some dont' (which lets face it is highly likely...no offense but don't see them releasing new Necron or Sisters (or even Tau) kits now, with their supposed release looming) then it'd be incredibly unbalenced, and a lot of players wouldn't be able to play.

For spearhead, they redesigned one tank, added a FW tank as a varient in the same kit, and released the deathstrike/manticore set. It didn't unbalence any armies, as very little changed in terms of gameplay. But adding flyers and not letting all sides have them or weapons to fight them, will be very bad idea

[Majorcrash]

No No No, No respectable Guard General would allow that flying box anywhere near his troops. Not when you have nice sleek valkyries and Vendettas. Plus I heard the the Guard will be getting plastic Thunderbolts this summer.YEA

[Kawauso]

Tyranid Harpy (clearly more useful than the Tervigon :rolleyes:)


I would actually really look forward to this, as I see the Harpy being very, very useful against Grey Knights.

[DadExtraordinaire]

I've heard some more tanks for IG namely Colossus and Griffon to complete IG armour........however, I would not count on it but you never know.....

[BHound1981]

Plus I heard the the Guard will be getting plastic Thunderbolts this summer.YEA

Plastic Thunderbolts would be awesome! To that, Lightnings would be equally as cool and Marauders... Oh baby...

However, the likelihood of those being released in plastic kits doesn't register too highly with me. I think we're more likely to see a Vulture before we get to any of the serious fighters/bombers. Then again, if they're willing to do a Thunderhawk, it's entirely possible...

I'll be taking my salt now... mmm... salty...

[wittdooley]

There isn't any reason a plastic Lightning/Thunderbolt couldn't be done. The Lightning is far smaller than the Valkyrie or Storm Raven.

My god. If they did a plastic one I'd have my own Blue Angels. HaH!

[Demonus]

are fliers only useable in Apoc games?

[GrenAcid]

are fliers only useable in Apoc games?

If you mean with specyfic fliers rules, than yes, if not....we have valks and other stuff now.

[No Identity]

As a non-marine player who plays a lot of Apoc please let this be utterly false

Seriously, i know it'll drive all the marine players nuts and make a ton of money for GW, but for every other army, a super heavy flier IN PLASTIC will completly ruin apoc for me.

There is no reason to believe the Thunderhawk will be super heavy. It shouldn't have more than 1 structure point. AV14, sure.

[Gotthammer]

Maybe the reason is because it's already a superheavy in all its rules incarnations?

Just throwing it out there...

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Someone had to call it, Gotthammer :L... Oh and why shouldn't it have more than one structure point?

[No Identity]

Maybe the reason is because it's already a superheavy in all its rules incarnations?

Just throwing it out there...

It hasn't had any rules incarnations. It has had Forge World "rules". Which means nothing. They are free to do with it what they please (as usual).

edit: Custom datasheets, old chapter approved entries, vehicle design rules or Forge World "rules" never had any real influence on GW's designs in the past and probably never will.

Plus, put a TH next to a Tau Manta. The manta has 3 structure points, which puts the TH at one and a half, max :)

[hammer]

Does anyone else remember that gw put out a thunder hawk in lead? It was a limitted release and came in a wooden box.

[No Identity]

Does anyone else remember that gw put out a thunder hawk in lead? It was a limitted release and came in a wooden box.

Yeah. I've got the White Dwarf with the feature. There was a certificate as well.

[Gotthammer]

It hasn't had any rules incarnations. It has had Forge World "rules". Which means nothing. They are free to do with it what they please (as usual).

edit: Custom datasheets, old chapter approved entries, vehicle design rules or Forge World "rules" never had any real influence on GW's designs in the past and probably never will.


Apocalypse, page 114, available in a Games Workshop near you! Probably near the Imperial Armour books they stock now.




Plus, put a TH next to a Tau Manta. The manta has 3 structure points, which puts the TH at one and a half, max :)

The Thunderhawk could just be build more ruggedly than the Manta - as a real life comparrison the B-17 was famous for coming home with large sections missing (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/B-17-battle-casualty1.gif) while the B-24 (despite having a superior range, speed and bomb load) was not as rugged.

[Xas]

Plus, put a TH next to a Tau Manta. The manta has 3 structure points, which puts the TH at one and a half, max :)

you are either talking about another game (have no idea about AI or Epic), have a missprinted book or a severe reading disorder because my book (IAA) says the manta has 10 structure points...

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

It hasn't had any rules incarnations. It has had Forge World "rules". Which means nothing. They are free to do with it what they please (as usual).

edit: Custom datasheets, old chapter approved entries, vehicle design rules or Forge World "rules" never had any real influence on GW's designs in the past and probably never will.

Plus, put a TH next to a Tau Manta. The manta has 3 structure points, which puts the TH at one and a half, max :)

Unless this has already been corrected (and I apolgise if so), it has rules in the GW Apocalypse book that also state it has 3 structure points + I am in agreement again with Gotthammer, Imperial vehicles are far tougher than the equilivant Tau + if a Marauder bomber gets 3 structure points then so does a Thunderhawk

[Hyperion]

Again, this is heresay, but like I said, he's a very reliable source that is a close friend with a great number of miniature sculptures.

I'll also point to the fact that in the previous issue of WD, they mentioned that the plastic T-Hawk was talked about with the design team.

To me, a few big kit flyers make sense. They sold the hell out of those Baneblade kits. They have to know they'd sell 2+ plastic T-Hawks to nearly every marine player.

Fair point... I have little more than a proto-army of marines but I'd buy one or two...

[eldargal]

I'd buy one for my Astral Kittens and they are just a display army. I may be a hardcore xenos player but the Thunderhawk is one of the iconic images of 40k.

[Vaktathi]

I'd kill for a plastic Hydra kit, I'd buy 6 right off the bat. Here's hoping to that :D

[Brettila]

The main problem I see, and it might prove to be no real issue, is that a kit that size would cost at least $200. While I do know people who bought 4 super heavies, I can see folks balking at that price. Not to mention that it will cost 100's of points and still be armor 12. (Apoc stats could change.) Furthermore, it is just too darn big for a normal table. Even an Apocalypse game would have trouble finding enough real estate for that monster. But, perhaps people will simly buy it to finally have one 'on the mantle'.

[wittdooley]

Why would it be "at least $200?"

[Demonus]

how big is it compared to the super heavy tanks? those are about $100.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

how big is it compared to the super heavy tanks? those are about $100.

Well from a picture I am looking at, from the Apocalypse Rule Book (page 67, top right image) the Thunderhawk (with landing gear down) is a little bit shorter than an Ork Stompa, and 3x the length of the Baneblade and about 3x the width too... It's a beast to say the least. I would still love on though :D

[wittdooley]

I've worked with the resin version; it's certainly not 3x the length of the super heavy. It may not even be 2x the length. It will be more than the Baneblade, but I think their happy price point would be at $150. At that PP, they'd still sell a ton.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

I've worked with the resin version; it's certainly not 3x the length of the super heavy. It may not even be 2x the length. It will be more than the Baneblade, but I think their happy price point would be at $150. At that PP, they'd still sell a ton.

Well... You'd know better, I was just going from an image... Perspectives always annoing :)

[wittdooley]

Well... You'd know better, I was just going from an image... Perspectives always annoing :)

The wing footprint is probably a good 18 inches though.

[Chapter Master stephen]

As a non-marine player who plays a lot of Apoc please let this be utterly false

Seriously, i know it'll drive all the marine players nuts and make a ton of money for GW, but for every other army, a super heavy flier IN PLASTIC will completly ruin apoc for me.

Whereas a marine player gets access to plastic super heavy tanks and fliers, everyone else has to pay through the nose for FW pieces. Yes if everyone gets plastic fliers it'll rebalence things a bit, but not as much as it should.

[Rant Over]

P.s Seeing as we heard "strong" rumours from "trusted sources" last year some time of plastic Eldar Superheavies...I don't hold my breath for this. The plastic T-Hawk is just an internet fanboys pipedream

Space marines have some cool data sheets and formations like everyone else (except dark eldar) Imperial Guard and Orks have plastic super heavies. don't get the weaklings mixed up with the awsomeness of 40k.

[sangrail777]

Just measured my Thunderhawk (forgeworld) 19 inches long and 17 inch wingspan.
and my baneblade and shadowswords(11 with barrel) are 10 inches long and 5 1/2 inches wide.

[DrBored]

So whatever happened to this whole gig? The last rumors read that the 'Summer of Flyers' was going to be around August or something. We're less than a month from the beginning of August and this seems to have died out completely.

So what about all those rumors of the Ork flyer and the Voidraven Bomber, and the Necron flyer? Did it all just fall through, or have people just been to absorbed by 6th ed, Necron, and SoB?

[DrLove42]

Think the general consensus was it was a rumour that didn't pan out.

Are there models for an Ork flier, a Voidraven or Necron flier? Almost certainly. When will they be released? Who knows...

[SotonShades]

Given the reaction of most of the WFB players and my local GW, Storm of Magic seems to be the summer of fliers. Best way to get models of fulcrums apparently. I have no idea to be honest, but they seem to be having fun.

[Denzark]

I had got myself convinced that 'Summer of Flyers' was a phrase used somewhere in WD.

[lobster-overlord]

With GW's new announcement philosophy, if it is coming, the first place you'll see it is on the last page of WD this month for the following month (Sept release). There's still a chance.

John M.

[DrLove42]

The last pages of this months WD will be for the second half of the sisters codex. The issue at the end of July and End of August are sisters. End of September will be whatever the next Fantasy release is and/or the Mystery releae (Man O' War). The earliest release we could see if end of October, for a November relase, which is rumours are correct will be Necs.

[Necron2.0]

I had got myself convinced that 'Summer of Flyers' was a phrase used somewhere in WD.

Yeah, I had thought it was official too. My LGS was likewise certain it was official. However, I have it on good authority from our favorite Eldar Warrior Princess that we be smokin' da ganja.

[lobster-overlord]

The last pages of this months WD will be for the second half of the sisters codex. The issue at the end of July and End of August are sisters. End of September will be whatever the next Fantasy release is and/or the Mystery releae (Man O' War). The earliest release we could see if end of October, for a November relase, which is rumours are correct will be Necs.

pure speculation right? Who says that Sisters has to be two issues like BA were? I'm just saying that IF summer of flyers is for real, that is when you will see it.

Also, WD has more than ONE thing in it each month, so it could have both.

[Brass Scorpion]

pure speculation right? Who says that Sisters has to be two issues like BA were? If by that one means an official announcement from GW, which it was in the current issue of White Dwarf. The once in a while an actual, proven fact makes it into these silly rumors discussions they get more skepticism than all the fabricated junk.

[eldargal]

Exclusively in the next issue of White Dwarf, we present the first part of Codex: Sisters of Battle...

First part, so there has to be more than one. It will probably be two, based on precedent. BramGaunt and some of the other reliable rumourmongers on Warseer have repeatedly said there was no basis to the Summer of Fliers stuff.



pure speculation right? Who says that Sisters has to be two issues like BA were? I'm just saying that IF summer of flyers is for real, that is when you will see it.

Also, WD has more than ONE thing in it each month, so it could have both.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Personally, Games Workshop are making me bored with lack of information...I think actually they could do more with their website in terms of a proper 40K blog section, an 'Eavy metal page, for tutorials and maybe even an Official rumours page? Just sooooo bored of not knowing what's coming out - I just don't see a reason for it AT ALL

[HsojVvad]

Personally, Games Workshop are making me bored with lack of information...I think actually they could do more with their website in terms of a proper 40K blog section, an 'Eavy metal page, for tutorials and maybe even an Official rumours page? Just sooooo bored of not knowing what's coming out - I just don't see a reason for it AT ALL

Oh this is so true. I have become bored as well. Problem is, we are not GW target audiance anymore so GW doesn't care is we konw what is coming out or not. They really don't look for our money.

Rich Parents with little kids is what GW cares about and they know the Parents are not interested in rumours or what is upcoming or even a chat forum like we are on here. That is why GW doesn't have it because it doesn't make them any more money.

[DrBored]

Well then, what about the Voidraven Bomber itself? Has there been anything I missed about that model?

[eldargal]

The sculpt had some technical problems, areas that were too delicate and broke far too easily so it had to be redone, apparently. Not heard any word as to when it may be arriving.

[wittdooley]

Rich Parents with little kids is what GW cares about and they know the Parents are not interested in rumours or what is upcoming or even a chat forum like we are on here. That is why GW doesn't have it because it doesn't make them any more money.

What a load of crap. A persistent buyer with their own disposable income (SEE: Adults) will always spend more money than a parent. Always. Burst sales are great temporarily, but again, long-term sales and support come from a dedicated fan base.

GW took their forums down because so many people bytch and moan it wasn't worth it for them to devote the time and energy to monitor anymore. Not many public companies have a consumer forum on their own website.

[JMichael]

Not many public companies have a consumer forum on their own website.

Just as one great example is Corvus Belli, makers of Infinity http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/. They have a public forum, and actually respond to questions and sometimes even take suggestions. They have also endorsed/allowed to be posted player made demo packs, scenarios, and rules pdfs.

I love it!

[wittdooley]

Just as one great example is Corvus Belli, makers of Infinity http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/. They have a public forum, and actually respond to questions and sometimes even take suggestions. They have also endorsed/allowed to be posted player made demo packs, scenarios, and rules pdfs.

I love it!

Well, you sort of missed the point of the part of my response that you quoted. Corvus Belli is not a public company.

[Gotthammer]

Also it's a much smaller player base - the Infinity forum has 18,000 members registered. BoLS has 10,000, Dakka 45,00 and Warseer has 76,000. There will be some duplicates there, but not all by a long shot.

[HsojVvad]

What a load of crap. A persistent buyer with their own disposable income (SEE: Adults) will always spend more money than a parent. Always. Burst sales are great temporarily, but again, long-term sales and support come from a dedicated fan base.

GW took their forums down because so many people bytch and moan it wasn't worth it for them to devote the time and energy to monitor anymore. Not many public companies have a consumer forum on their own website.

It's not a load of crap, that is GW marketing strategy now. It has been said so many times on the forums here and else where. GW wants parents to come in, "Fresh Blood" spend their $200-$1000 and get out, and don't care if they ever come back.

It has worked for GW for at least 10 years now, but it seems that might be changing soon. Once you can see this, alot of what GW does, like no forums, no rumours, start to make sense on what GW does. Right now, it makes no sense why GW does this to it's veterans, but it makes sense because GW doesn't really care about the Vetrans because most of them don't (again I said most since a few still do but that is not enough) who drop an average $500 and walk away. Most either get their GW stuff at discount stores or buy 2nd hand of E Bay or Kijjijji.

[wittdooley]

It's not a load of crap, that is GW marketing strategy now. It has been said so many times on the forums here and else where. GW wants parents to come in, "Fresh Blood" spend their $200-$1000 and get out, and don't care if they ever come back.

Really? They don't want people to continue buying product? You're going to stick with that statement?



It has worked for GW for at least 10 years now, but it seems that might be changing soon. Once you can see this, alot of what GW does, like no forums, no rumours, start to make sense on what GW does.


What do rumors have to do with anything? I mean, seriously. For your argument (all they want is new players) to hold any water, GW would have to employ marketing techniques to gain interest of the younger fanbase. This would include, but not be limited to: advertisements in kids magazines. Commercials during kids shows. An Ork-based Mario Kart Clone video Game to be developed (wait.. I sorta like this idea). Etc.



Right now, it makes no sense why GW does this to it's veterans, but it makes sense because GW doesn't really care about the Vetrans because most of them don't (again I said most since a few still do but that is not enough) who drop an average $500 and walk away.

Dude, Apocalypse was an expansion specifically for veterans. Sure, it helped to sell more models, but it was designed for people that had accumulated 15 Leman Russes. I'm sure I easily spend close to $500 a year on GW products, and that's if you do'nt include Forge World models. I'd say 60% of my gaming group is the same way.



Most either get their GW stuff at discount stores or buy 2nd hand of E Bay or Kijjijji

Not true for me, or the folks I game with. The only things I buy off eBay are parts. Otherwise, I like giving my FLGS my business.

[Lockark]

Really? They don't want people to continue buying product? You're going to stick with that statement?


He didn't say that's what he wants.... He said that he's heard from sources that GW isn't trying to support continued buying isn't thier stratgy. They want to gt people who drop alot in at once and never come back. You realy shouldn't just put words in a person's mouth like that.


Thow I think the statment is stupid and comes from the same people who like to run around useing terms like "Game$work$hop" and "Failcoa$t". More based on thier own bais and hearsay then any hard evidence.

The truth is if that statement was true we also would see much more aggressive advertising towards the kids with rich parents who will dump that money to get their kid a army.

When one thinks about it, GW's only real advertising is their GW store fronts/gaming areas. It's not like you see ad's in magazines, on TV, ect. The idea is you come into the store out of curiosity, learn the game, and keep coming back to the store since you started a army of your own. The pushy red shirts everyone complains about is a product of them trying to aggressively encourage repeat buying. Trying to push the army of the month, their paints, ect.

GW wants fresh blood, but they also want fresh blood who will stay around in the long term.

[eldargal]

GW knows their consumer base, their marketing policies are aimed at recruiting players between 12-18, they know full well that those who continue to play after that age bracket tend to look after themselves. Forming games clubs, running tournaments etc. they need less support and attention from the corporate body, so that is what they get.

This doesn't please most veterans but the fact remain if you are still playing in your mid to late twenties when you have an independent income then you ought to be mature enough to cope with it even if you don't like it.

[George Labour]

@ witdooley: Slightly off topic but there WAS an attempt to make a gorka morka video game way back in the twilight days of the 90s IIRC. It was going to be more Twisted Metal than Mario Kart...but there you go.