Intense Players

[doom-kitten]

I'm not the best player out there and I'm definitly not gonna say I'm a veteran but I've been playing roughly a year now and no matter where I play theres always a group that well their kinda like old crotchity war vets who just sit there and complain about the new rules vs old rules. It's soooo annoying I was playing a game against eldar and I lost bad but I had to sit through and entire game reveiw of what would have happened in Rogue Trader etc. oh and the Faith points my god I hate people and their Faith point whining AFTER they beat me into paste with their shiny Descent of Angel Vangaurd Squads, Trygons and Imperial Guard orders it's retarded you just want to shake people and scream it's a game not a life and death situation. Fortunately where I play now I managed to find a group of guys who play fun games and play every type of army (Imperial, xenos etc.) so their pretty fair about the armies they don't complain. Even had one guy point out everything he thought was over powered in his own army, anyways my point these days it's seems most vets are overly bitter and it's kinda difficult for us newer players to deal with and be fair they have no reason to direct their anger at other players. Not trying to insult anyone by the one just a observation I've made over the last few weeks.

[HsojVvad]

Yeah I can agree with you. Luckily for me, I haven't played anyone like that, but I have seen some of them. It's a plastic toy soldier game. I just find it funny how people have to "win" playing plastic toy soliders.

Yeah there can be some dicks out there when you play, pretty sad, but there is a lot of good ones out there as well.

[Brass Scorpion]

There are a small number of people out there that love second edition and can't let it go. Personally, I've been in 40K since Rogue Trader and have enjoyed the streamlining process it's seen over the years. It plays much smoother and faster paced than ever before now. Fortunately, my "40K vet" friends feel the same way.

I spend a lot of time at my local GW store and several times during the past few months new faces have walked in and stated that they used to play 40K, hadn't played in many years, were thinking of getting back into it, and wanted to know what it was like. Usually people just nod with interest when the store operator briefs them on the current version, but once in a while you get someone who responds to every bit of information with, "well it used to be like this" and "it used to be like that" and as soon as you hear that you want to run the other way because it always goes down the path of how 2nd edition was better and the newer versions since then have "dumbed it down". We then have a good laugh about it after the nuisance leaves, but while it's going on it makes you want to pull your own head off just to escape the endless litany of comments about how much better 40K used to be. LOL.

[geisthammer]

Unfortunately some people are old and bitter about every aspect of there lives, fortunately at my LGC people are fun to play with and chat, I have yet to meet a beardy,bitter and bland gamer. Just find a different club to go to if you get sick of people saying "In the good old days of rogue trader"

I'm not trying to offend old skool gamers. "back in the day" was better in some cases. Kids weren't as arrogant, space raiders where 10p but 5th edition is as good as or better in my opinion. RT was random. It was the foundations of the game most of us love. But this is now and I don't think GW will be going back.

[BuFFo]

I was one of those guys who swore by 2nd edition for a decade.

Then 5th edition came along. The. Best. Edition. Ever. Overall.

As far as old farts touting their times 'back in the day', just deal with it. I am 31 years old, and I was 20 at one time too. Trust me, as you get older, you'll be like that before you know it.

"Back in my day, in 5th edition...."

You'll see. Save this thread and open it up in 15 years.

Yeah it can be annoying, but I think most of it is harmless ignorance. Old farts just wanting to relive their youths through tales. It is just human nature.

[Denzark]

I hate youngsters in 40k. They start off 8-12 years old, and think the gaming area is a playground. They run around, their chubby little elbows clipping miniatures and dashing them to the ground. If they have a parent other than Satan, the parent controls them like a Nicaraguan death Squad boss. They then start to pick up and manhandle 8 hour paint jobs on your special characters without asking. They have inane conversations that go like this:

“Why have you charged 5 sphess muhrines with that 1 dude?”
“Well, he’s Kharne the Betrayer, a frothing looney and...”
(interrupting in a voice like Nelson off the Simpsons) “haha he’s going to get his arse kicked”

Then they reach 12-15, and get hormones. They start to smell what Dr Venkmann may describe as ‘kinda funky’. Greasy hair at length more appropriate to girls becomes the norm, as does pathetic straggly facial hair. Also long ankle length PVC coats and boots big enough to belong to Abby off NCIS. They get tetchy when Ahriman, a Lash Prince, 3 half built Tzeentch terminators, 9 obliterators, and a half painted vindicator fails to dent a perfecly balanced IG army that a Vet has had in the making for 15+ years. They start to threaten their group that they will turn to Warmacheeen or even Magic, but somehow never do.

At 15, if Mummy has not sold all of little Timmy’s toys on Ebay because he seems to have stopped regularly daubing them with 18 shades of brown, they start to denigrate anybody with fond memories of yesteryear. They pass many comments about previous editions of the game, commenting on how old, slow and full of extraneous rules they were, even though they never played these editions. Any non 5th Edition codex is scorned, they have a random set of powered armoured individuals who, as the infamous Blood Knight Wolf Salamander fisters of multiple fanfic fame, double as whatever cookie cutter list seems to be top of tuh internetz.

PS for those with no sense of irony this is the other side of the sweeping generalisation coin.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

I have been playing for about ten years now and never knew the early days of 40k. I started at the tail end of 3rd edition and have enjoyed each edition after more and more. However after working at a GW store for about a year I have heard all of it and I cant agree more. I would here 30 year old adolescent basement dwellers or bitter 40 year old virgins drone on and on about RT and 2nd edition. GET OVER IT! the past is in the the past. cut your hair, use soap, get a real job. I am definatly obsessed with this game but there are other things in life besides Warhammer and video games. Like girls and outdoor activities. both can be extremely fun to be around. Apologies if I offend anyone I am just sick of hearing about it and attempting to be funny. Things grow and evolve. You dont hear people saying" Hey , Pong was an awesome game I hope they bring it back" do you?

[BuFFo]

You dont hear people saying" Hey , Pong was an awesome game I hope they bring it back" do you?

Apparently...

PONG (http://www.falstad.com/pong/)

[doom-kitten]

I wasn't looking to offend anyone just wanted to see how people, plus I'm most definitly not 12-15 more like 20. I get the youths part as well but fortunately I haven't dealt with any yet, so if anyone is offended I apologize.

[scadugenga]

I hate youngsters in 40k. They start off 8-12 years old, and think the gaming area is a playground. They run around, their chubby little elbows clipping miniatures and dashing them to the ground. If they have a parent other than Satan, the parent controls them like a Nicaraguan death Squad boss. They then start to pick up and manhandle 8 hour paint jobs on your special characters without asking. They have inane conversations that go like this:

“Why have you charged 5 sphess muhrines with that 1 dude?”
“Well, he’s Kharne the Betrayer, a frothing looney and...”
(interrupting in a voice like Nelson off the Simpsons) “haha he’s going to get his arse kicked”

Then they reach 12-15, and get hormones. They start to smell what Dr Venkmann may describe as ‘kinda funky’. Greasy hair at length more appropriate to girls becomes the norm, as does pathetic straggly facial hair. Also long ankle length PVC coats and boots big enough to belong to Abby off NCIS. They get tetchy when Ahriman, a Lash Prince, 3 half built Tzeentch terminators, 9 obliterators, and a half painted vindicator fails to dent a perfecly balanced IG army that a Vet has had in the making for 15+ years. They start to threaten their group that they will turn to Warmacheeen or even Magic, but somehow never do.

At 15, if Mummy has not sold all of little Timmy’s toys on Ebay because he seems to have stopped regularly daubing them with 18 shades of brown, they start to denigrate anybody with fond memories of yesteryear. They pass many comments about previous editions of the game, commenting on how old, slow and full of extraneous rules they were, even though they never played these editions. Any non 5th Edition codex is scorned, they have a random set of powered armoured individuals who, as the infamous Blood Knight Wolf Salamander fisters of multiple fanfic fame, double as whatever cookie cutter list seems to be top of tuh internetz.

PS for those with no sense of irony this is the other side of the sweeping generalisation coin.

+1

Edit: Since one of our mods is apparently hyper sensitive:

Denzark, I agree with absolutely everything you said. It appears I need to type more than two characters to represent this without being called to carpet.

[Connjurus]

You get people like this in every hobby, swearing that the older was better than the new, because, funnily enough, as time passes, you slowly lose the bad memories and remember only the good - for the most part. So eventually all they remember from Second Edition is their awesome librarian, their psyk-out grenades, and their web guns.

[HsojVvad]

I wasn't looking to offend anyone just wanted to see how people, plus I'm most definitly not 12-15 more like 20. I get the youths part as well but fortunately I haven't dealt with any yet, so if anyone is offended I apologize.

What are you being sorry for? You didn't say anything too offend anyone. :)

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Agreed, don't apologize for raising an interest in what you think.
I have been playing since 2nd ed, and i have to say, i really dont miss all those war gear cards youhad to have. I think 5th ed is seriously the better version here.

Sure it takes some fun away in places, but streamlines it in others. Making rules clearer (well as clear as can be) and makes the game more enjoyable overall. I think with 5th ed its a matter of playing your game with friends and having fun..nothing more.

As for Intense players, forget them, if they want to rant over older editions, and rant on about how cool it was to now, just nod a lot, say "ahuh", and repeat it alot. Or better still tell them to start a 2nd ed 40k only club someplace far away.
Down the local store, we don't have anyone like that, most are young guys from 14-25+ with a few older players like me, who can remember the older rules, but prefer new edition.

[scadugenga]

You get people like this in every hobby, swearing that the older was better than the new, because, funnily enough, as time passes, you slowly lose the bad memories and remember only the good - for the most part. So eventually all they remember from Second Edition is their awesome librarian, their psyk-out grenades, and their web guns.

I remember just a bit more than that.

Like having actual HQ choices that can be customized.

About having allies.

Fielding all harlequin armies and actually having a solitaire on the field.

Having pirates and exodites as options instead of just guardians.

You also get the converse--people in the hobby who only swear that newer is better in every regard.

I guess they must love the newer higher prices.

I remember $15.00 was a box of 3 Rhinos.

It's what, $33.00 for 1 now.

Newer is better!

;)

Now I know that's not the crux of your argument, but let's not lump everyone who loved RT and 2nd edition with the minority of people who can't seem to look forward and embrace the new.

Likewise, the people who only look towards the new will never see the great foundation that led up to them having the fluff, toys and game that they do now.

It's all about balance.

[Drew da Destroya]

It's all about balance.

But I thought 40k wasn't balanced? :rolleyes:

I owned a second edition Orkz codex, and I think half-assed my way through a game... the only thing I remember doing was unhitching my Splattakannon from my looted Basilisk at high speed. I don't think we got much further than that because we had no clue what we were doing, but it was certainly fun.

I didn't play 3rd edition at all, I had dropped out right after the 3rd edition Ork codex came out (although I did own it).

Most of fourth, all I remember is getting wiped off the table by my friend's 9 scatterlaser warwalkers. Then the new Ork codex came out, and I wiped him out by turn 2... then had to talk him out of selling his army on Ebay and quitting the game entirely.

We've had a blast with 5th.

[Connjurus]

Now I know that's not the crux of your argument, but let's not lump everyone who loved RT and 2nd edition with the minority of people who can't seem to look forward and embrace the new.



Those are the only people I'm talking about. ;)

Trust me, there are definitely things I miss from the older editions...

Like my Daemon Prince with Daemonic Stature and a Dreadaxe. D:

[doom-kitten]

Probably should stated on the players who do the whole that sucks aspect like my Faith Points and completely ignore agruements against their own insane rules I still get a little twitchy when my bud deepstrikes his vanguard (BloodRaven not Blood Angel) because of a horrid experience vs a BA list. And to add insult to awesome *** whipping the BA player whined the entire night because I can get a 3+ invulnerable save for one turn or have my bolters count as AP 1 on a wound roll of 6. Not gonna say I'm innocent of this I've had my own complaints but I try not to ruin it for people by harping about it I understand when or if (fingerscrossed) my codex gets a rehaul we'll probably get something new and cute (Inferno cannons please XD). I find people are far to defensive of their codices this days and it raise a whole lot of unnessacary army comparisons and complaints that are often unfounded or dropped the instant another codex is released only to raise a whole new set of arguements. Take marines for example lots of people argue about then yet at the same time either own a marine list or are comptemplating buying one same thing with dark eldar or tyranids they complain about the army then buy it.

[scadugenga]

But I thought 40k wasn't balanced? :rolleyes:

We've had a blast with 5th.

Pshaw. :P

And yeah, I've had fun with 5th ed too--don't get me wrong. I like it almost as much as 2nd ed. I'd like it *as* much, or better, if they didn't remove creativity from the army lists and made SC's go from permission only to almost must-have.

@Connjurus: We're all good then, 'migo. One of the things I *don't* miss about 2nd ed are greater daemons.

Eyugh....scariest things out there.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

And who can forget the old ork battlewagon with its rules that how ever many ork miniatures you could pile onboard was how many it transported..if they fell off while moving it well they had to roll to save vs wounds.
I really miss seeing that, i remember plling 37 orks aboard it once with a friends army.

2nd Ed was fun, full of laughs and stupid rulings. 5th ed, well its designed for streamlined play, power players who want to yell out "Waaaah" and absolutely stomp your army and feelings with over-powered special characters.
I play 5th ed to bring back the fun, yet find myself facing most times against people who only want to win, call your army cheesy (especially when i use Faith) and dont win against a 3rd ed codex.
Rules wise, 5th is a much better version, clearing away grey areas, making the game less time consuming and mostly opening the game up to expansions like Apoc for all those die-hard fans who have over the many years like me spent way too much money and didn't know when to stop, had a Apoc sized army years before the rules came out, and like the game for friendly matches of jokes and laughable dice rolls.

[Astral Platypus]

I'm not the best player out there and I'm definitly not gonna say I'm a veteran but I've been playing roughly a year now and no matter where I play theres always a group that well their kinda like old crotchity war vets who just sit there and complain about the new rules vs old rules. It's soooo annoying I was playing a game against eldar and I lost bad but I had to sit through and entire game reveiw of what would have happened in Rogue Trader etc. oh and the Faith points my god I hate people and their Faith point whining AFTER they beat me into paste with their shiny Descent of Angel Vangaurd Squads, Trygons and Imperial Guard orders it's retarded you just want to shake people and scream it's a game not a life and death situation. Fortunately where I play now I managed to find a group of guys who play fun games and play every type of army (Imperial, xenos etc.) so their pretty fair about the armies they don't complain. Even had one guy point out everything he thought was over powered in his own army, anyways my point these days it's seems most vets are overly bitter and it's kinda difficult for us newer players to deal with and be fair they have no reason to direct their anger at other players. Not trying to insult anyone by the one just a observation I've made over the last few weeks.

If these guys want to gripe about your all pewter army, old codex, and difficult to model wargear, I say cram unit-wide 3+ invulnerable saves and AP1 flamers down their throats until they reach for their lisinopril and go play 2 hour long 2nd edition close combats in the corner with their Green Elmer Fudd Space Vikings(Orks).

Every edition of 40k has had rule problems, but they have generally been improvements from the last. I will happily take 5th edition's flaws over 2nd edition armor penetration rules and 3rd edition target priority any day. Find a way to beat those guys, and don't stop till they're playing checkers!

[scadugenga]

and go play 2 hour long 2nd edition close combats.

Another example of someone talking about 2nd edition without probably having ever played it...

[Astral Platypus]

Another example of someone talking about 2nd edition without probably having ever played it...

Orks as a matter of fact; back when Gazghkull still had a standard bearer (Makari) that went with him.
When and your opponent are both armed with parrying weapons the combats got pretty long. Basilisk firing twice a turn, needing at least 3 different sided dice to do armor penetration, deviation for jump packs, and shooting modifiers for cover and movement. There's more, but those are some of the bigger ones I can remember.

[zerokoa]

I was one of those guys who swore by 2nd edition for a decade.

Then 5th edition came along. The. Best. Edition. Ever. Overall.

As far as old farts touting their times 'back in the day', just deal with it. I am 31 years old, and I was 20 at one time too. Trust me, as you get older, you'll be like that before you know it.

"Back in my day, in 5th edition...."

You'll see. Save this thread and open it up in 15 years.

Yeah it can be annoying, but I think most of it is harmless ignorance. Old farts just wanting to relive their youths through tales. It is just human nature.

In this case I'm lucky. I'm 45, and I started playing with the 2nd edition ( that was a real mess, it took 4 hours just for the first game ), and I totally agree with you...the 5th edition is the best ever.

[scadugenga]

Orks as a matter of fact; back when Gazghkull still had a standard bearer (Makari) that went with him.
When and your opponent are both armed with parrying weapons the combats got pretty long. Basilisk firing twice a turn, needing at least 3 different sided dice to do armor penetration, deviation for jump packs, and shooting modifiers for cover and movement. There's more, but those are some of the bigger ones I can remember.

I played eldar throughout 2nd ed. Parrying blades did not make combat all that slow: Melee was much more vicious in 2nd ed than it is currently. Particularly if you had a 2+ WS disparity with your opponent, or had him surrounded and fighting multiple mini-combats.

Armor Pen was a bit of a pain, yes. However there just weren't that many vehicles on the table to really worry about either.

And while you had shooting modifiers (both positive and negative--most weapons were +1 or +2 to hit at short range), many weapons made armor saves all but worthless. (EG: Shuriken Catapult hits a Marine and wounds. -2 save mod on the catapult means the Marine only survives on a 5+)

Psychic phase was separate, but generally much nastier than the current psychic rules in 40k.

All in all, games still take about the same amount of time to play. People just forget things like points costs differences and changes in rules mechanics. Essentially what they did with 3rd ed+ is replace the shooting modifiers to hit with the cover save mechanic, and frankly--cover saves prolong the game a lot more than shooting modifiers ever did. :)

[Astral Platypus]

With Orks it seemed like you were relying on the ACME factor of your wargear to win games, not shooting, hand-to-hand, or psychic powers like everyone else. It might be that my experience with the game is tinted by that, but the games DID seem to take a bit longer, considering the amount of models you had on the board.

[Deathula]

If these guys want to gripe about your all pewter army, old codex, and difficult to model wargear, I say cram unit-wide 3+ invulnerable saves and AP1 flamers down their throats until they reach for their lisinopril and go play 2 hour long 2nd edition close combats in the corner with their Green Elmer Fudd Space Vikings(Orks).

Every edition of 40k has had rule problems, but they have generally been improvements from the last. I will happily take 5th edition's flaws over 2nd edition armor penetration rules and 3rd edition target priority any day. Find a way to beat those guys, and don't stop till they're playing checkers!

Completely off topic but total, de je vu. I swear I read this a year or more before I started this job, and I swear I was sititng exactly where I am sitting.