How fast do these guns shoot? (literally)

[He who shall not be named]

Ok so i was thinking yesterday about the rate of fire on ranged weapons in 40k and here's what i thought up. If a boltgun has the same rate of fire as an assault rifle then wouldn't the plasma gun be the same way? So that is what i thought up now time for you guys to figure out what the rate of fire for different weapons are.

[DrLove42]

|Can't say i've ever really thought about it but...

I would say the boltgun is a semi auto assault rifle...shot every second or so

Plasma gun is a slower rate as it needs to charge up for each shot...

Autocannon is a light machine gun

[Lemt]

The problem with plasma guns is... they overheat. So while you may be able to shoot short bursts at the same speed as a boltgun, it'll quickly melt down. Why even short bursts can be too much for the weapin!

Note that I just made this up to fit the rules, but it surely makes sense to me.

[Archon]

Assault Rifle - same as the today "modern" version. Single shot or full auto ... fastest of the three examples

Sounds: dakdakdakdakdakdak

Bolter - single or burst-mode 3 shots a burst, on full auto a bit slower than the autogun, mechanismn is a bit clumbsier because of the heavy calibre

Sounds: dung..dung..dung..

Plasma - slowest, single shot, burst mode about 2 shots a sec, but needs a few secs to recharge, no full auto, because the weapon will overheat at full auto in a few seconds

Sounds: dschung, dschung :cool:

[He who shall not be named]

Hmm i was thinking that an autocannon is like the chaingun on a bradley or striker.

While a storm bolter would be like a machine gun and a heavy bolter like a .50 cal machine gun.

Just think of how fast the punisher cannon is.

Also thinking of the rule set for the gun can help give insight to the gun.

[Drew da Destroya]

I'd think the Boltgun fires maybe slightly faster than a modern grenade launcher. It's not really an assault rifle weapon.

In fact, I vaguely remember reading that the bolts come out of the chamber pretty slowly (for a projectile), and then the bolt itself fires a secondary propulsion which is where most of the force/speed comes from. So a rapid rate of fire could result in the bolts colliding mid-air, setting each other off, and blowing up in your face!

A Shoota might be closer to a modern assault rifle, simply because it's just a slugthrower and doesn't have to worry about mid-air collisions!

A Shuriken Catapult would probably be much faster because it fires so many projectiles. Although I don't know if they fire one at a time, or in bursts like a shotgun.

[Crae]

This is pretty much our modern day version of the Boltgun (Forward to 4.30 to see it shoot explosive rounds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c&feature=related

The precise definition of an autocannon is often confusing, as there are other weapons which fulfil much of the criteria that define it, however a useful definition is that an autocannon is a large machine gun that fires an explosive or other-filled shell, whereas a true machine gun fires a solid bullet only. Like the machine gun, an autocannon is designed for fully automatic fire.
M2 Bradley.m242: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocannon

Man portable autocannon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPvjSYtr_w0&feature=related

A Heavy stubber = a regular heavy machine gun.

Missile launcher: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZdNstWIFbk&feature=related

Lasgun = standard assault riffle.

The shuriken fires a monomolecular slice (disk) from a solid core and propels it via a rail propulsion in full auto burst on short range.

[DarkLink]

|
I would say the boltgun is a semi auto assault rifle...shot every second or so


Semi-auto guns can shoot a lot faster than that. Most shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger, which is pretty fast. I mean, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbC5mEc6ipE&feature=related


So a rapid rate of fire could result in the bolts colliding mid-air, setting each other off, and blowing up in your face!


Uhhh... that makes no sense...

Each bolt presumptively acts the same upon firing. Each leaves the barrel with the same initial velocity and acceleration, and both fire their rockets after the same change in time, resulting in the same change in acceleration. Meaning that at no point would either bolt get further from or closer to the other than the initial distance between the two of them, neglecting insignificant timing differences.

[presto15]

Literally? hmmm... (real life calculations, I realize this is a game and must suspend disbelief) Doing this just for kicks

Stay with me as I do some math.

What we know: A boltgun can shoot up to two times at 12 inches a turn...

So how long does a turn take to figure out the Rate of Fire?

A game turn only last a few seconds (if that)...

Here is how I calculate it. A normal human can move up to 12 inches a turn (assuming they roll a 6 for the run). This would represent an all out sprint. How far is 12 inches. Lets use a space marine for comparisons... A Space marine (the most used and advertised figure) is about 8 feet tall (give or take a foot) in fluff. In game terms they are about 1.5 inches. This means 1 inch is equal to 5 feet 4 inches about.

Now back to our all out sprint of 12 inches. 12 inches equals about 64 feet (12 times 5.33). A normal human can move a maximum of 12 inches in a single turn. 64 feet is equal to 21.3 yards, or just slightly over a fifth of the length of a football field. A human in shape can run 100 yards in about 12 seconds.

one fifth of 100 yards is about 21, just like one fifth of 12 seconds is 2.4 seconds...

So, using this math, a game turn lasts about 2.5 (rounding) seconds.

this would mean a boltgun can shoot about 2 shots per 2.5 seconds, or a RoF of .8 rounds a second

A modern assault rifle can shoot about 600-750 rounds a minute or about 10- 12.5 rounds a second.

So literally a boltgun can shoot .8 rounds per second.



p.s. using the same math we can also determine how fast a boltgun shoots. A boltgun can fire 1 shot a turn (2.5 seconds) 24 inches (128 feet, 42.6 yards) This would equate to moving at 34.9 miles per hour. Keep in mind that a major league pitcher can throw around 100 mph. =)

[DarkLink]

If it took 2.5 seconds for a bolt to travel 50 yards, you could dodge them easily. That's like someone throwing explosive footballs at you from the half-yard line.

[JxKxR]

Assault Rifle - same as the today "modern" version. Single shot or full auto ... fastest of the three examples

Sounds: dakdakdakdakdakdak

Bolter - single or burst-mode 3 shots a burst, on full auto a bit slower than the autogun, mechanismn is a bit clumbsier because of the heavy calibre

Sounds: dung..dung..dung..

Plasma - slowest, single shot, burst mode about 2 shots a sec, but needs a few secs to recharge, no full auto, because the weapon will overheat at full auto in a few seconds

Sounds: dschung, dschung :cool:

This made the most sense. :D

[Darkreaper48]

Literally? hmmm... (real life calculations, I realize this is a game and must suspend disbelief) Doing this just for kicks

Stay with me as I do some math.

What we know: A boltgun can shoot up to two times at 12 inches a turn...

So how long does a turn take to figure out the Rate of Fire?

A game turn only last a few seconds (if that)...

Here is how I calculate it. A normal human can move up to 12 inches a turn (assuming they roll a 6 for the run). This would represent an all out sprint. How far is 12 inches. Lets use a space marine for comparisons... A Space marine (the most used and advertised figure) is about 8 feet tall (give or take a foot) in fluff. In game terms they are about 1.5 inches. This means 1 inch is equal to 5 feet 4 inches about.

Now back to our all out sprint of 12 inches. 12 inches equals about 64 feet (12 times 5.33). A normal human can move a maximum of 12 inches in a single turn. 64 feet is equal to 21.3 yards, or just slightly over a fifth of the length of a football field. A human in shape can run 100 yards in about 12 seconds.

one fifth of 100 yards is about 21, just like one fifth of 12 seconds is 2.4 seconds...

So, using this math, a game turn lasts about 2.5 (rounding) seconds.

this would mean a boltgun can shoot about 2 shots per 2.5 seconds, or a RoF of .8 rounds a second

A modern assault rifle can shoot about 600-750 rounds a minute or about 10- 12.5 rounds a second.

So literally a boltgun can shoot .8 rounds per second.



p.s. using the same math we can also determine how fast a boltgun shoots. A boltgun can fire 1 shot a turn (2.5 seconds) 24 inches (128 feet, 42.6 yards) This would equate to moving at 34.9 miles per hour. Keep in mind that a major league pitcher can throw around 100 mph. =)

Close, but not quite.

Just because you get two 'shots' ingame, does not mean that you are literally just firing twice. It just means you're getting double the firepower of whatever one 'shot' at 24" is. A 'shot' could be a three round burst from a stormbolter, or a single shot from a plasma cannon, or a few round from a splinter rifle. It's hard to tell what one 'shot' really is.

In addition, 6" movement is not a flat out run. I'd imagine our friend the steroid injected space marine can run much quicker than any in-shape human today (as well as any tyranid, eldar, dark eldar, etc. could). In addition, when you're 'running' it isn't a flat out run. It explicitly states in the rulebook that in a movement phase, your units are moving up in a strategic manner, stopping at times to check for enemy movement, not blindly rushing into spore mines and lascannons.

[Mr.Pickelz]

an autocannon would fire like a flak AA guns would in WW2.

they even share similar ammo size. Maybe even a 30 mm anti-infantry cannon would also work as a comparison.

[scadugenga]

Semi-auto means you can fire one round per pull of the trigger.

That does not mean slow.

A buddy of mine (a gun enthusiast) ran a drill with me a few years ago.

Steyr GB 9mm semi auto pistol. 2 18 round mags (purchased before the 10 round mag law went into effect) with 1 round in the pipe. Standard human torso/head target silhouette set out to 10 yards.

Objective: Fire all 37 rounds as quickly as possible as accurately as possible.

His result: 37 rounds 7.9 seconds. All 37 rounds on the paper. 32 hit the target.

My result: Not nearly as good. :) (Something like 10.2 seconds, and 30 on the paper and 25 on the target.)

That's a semi-auto pistol. Firing (with switching mags) over 4.6 rounds/second in the hands of a trained (but not professional) shooter.

There's no way to accurately guess what kind of rate of fire is representational in 40k.

Just go with the flow and accept that wargames cannot even remotely represent real life capability. ;)

[Drew da Destroya]

Uhhh... that makes no sense...

Each bolt presumptively acts the same upon firing. Each leaves the barrel with the same initial velocity and acceleration, and both fire their rockets after the same change in time, resulting in the same change in acceleration. Meaning that at no point would either bolt get further from or closer to the other than the initial distance between the two of them, neglecting insignificant timing differences.

lol yeah... it was the end of my workday when I posted that, and I wasn't really thinking clearly.

My thought process was that if you sped up the firing mechanism, but kept the velocity of each firing stage the same, eventually you'd be firing while a round was still traveling through the barrel, and somehow it would catch up.

I think where I went wrong was that while I was thinking about it, I increased the speed of the firing mechanism after each shot. Each shot was heading out slightly faster than the one before it, and eventually I caught up. Obviously, this wouldn't make any sense, since who would create a gun that increased its own firing speed while you were firing?

Also, my explanation of my thought process probably doesn't make any sense, since it's now bedtime, and I'm tired and rambly.

[Lockark]

This is how I always pithered a Auto cannon Firing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2-JIBjJeaQ

[DarkLink]

lol yeah... it was the end of my workday when I posted that, and I wasn't really thinking clearly.


It's cool, man;)

[Nosmo75]

Close, but not quite.

Just because you get two 'shots' ingame, does not mean that you are literally just firing twice. It just means you're getting double the firepower of whatever one 'shot' at 24" is. A 'shot' could be a three round burst from a stormbolter, or a single shot from a plasma cannon, or a few round from a splinter rifle. It's hard to tell what one 'shot' really is.

In addition, 6" movement is not a flat out run. I'd imagine our friend the steroid injected space marine can run much quicker than any in-shape human today (as well as any tyranid, eldar, dark eldar, etc. could). In addition, when you're 'running' it isn't a flat out run. It explicitly states in the rulebook that in a movement phase, your units are moving up in a strategic manner, stopping at times to check for enemy movement, not blindly rushing into spore mines and lascannons.

I doubt even an unarmoured Space Marine could outrun an Eldar or Dark Eldar, as Space Marines are more about power than outright speed. They are bigger than humans, with a greater muscle mass, and are therefore a lot more powerful than even trained Guardsmen, as well as being faster.

But, I imagine the speed of the Eldar and Dark Eldar originates from their entire system running hotter and faster than any human's system, altered or otherwise, in a similar way to the skaven in Warhammer Fantasy.

This, on top of their light, athletic physique, allows them to attain speeds that anything with a relatively heavy, bulky physique just cannot match. It's the difference in performance between a really powerful vehicle like a Hummer or a tank, with their huge powerful engines, and an AC Cobra with a V8 or a V12 engine. =)

[DarkLink]

I doubt even an unarmoured Space Marine could outrun an Eldar or Dark Eldar, as Space Marines are more about power than outright speed.

When it comes to sprinting, power is speed. Look at any sprinter, and you'll see massive legs. Weight only really comes into play over long distances, which is why long distance runners sometimes look like holocaust victims. Presuming power armor can actually improve the power output of a Marine (power and strength are two different things), there's no reason to think that SMs are slower just because they're really strong. In fact, because they're strong you would expect them to be faster than they would be otherwise.



It's the difference in performance between a really powerful vehicle like a Hummer or a tank, with their huge powerful engines, and an AC Cobra with a V8 or a V12 engine. =)

Hummers don't actually have that powerful of an engine, and tanks are carrying around 70 tons of armor. Plus tracked vehicles aren't very fast compared to wheeled vehicles anyways. Vehicles are a poor comparison, because weight to power ratios play a much bigger role than they do in athletes. In humans, power is closely proportional to weight, neglecting body fat and presuming quality training. In cars, weight and power depend on too many other variables for there to be as simple a relationship.