Yet Another DE Pain Token Question

[Necron_Lord]

Hi all,

The following happened to me in a game. I had an Archon attached to a squad of Incubi how got into CC with Canis Wolfborn and some TWC. My Archon killed Canis and the TWC proceeded to kill my Incubi. Under the Power from Pain rule, the unit shared the pain token. Under the Sharing the Pain rule, when a unit leaves, the controlling player decides the allocation of the pain token between units, therefore my Archon continued to have it and he was the one to generate it as well.

My question is this, if a DE unit or IC gets killed, is that the same as having it leave and thus invoking the Sharing the Pain rule. Can Sharing the Pain be a pain token drain if units or ICs die? For example, if my Archon and Incubi had three pain tokens before the Incubi died, would the Archon have 3 pain tokens or would he have 2 (or 1)?

Any replies would be appreciated.

[Quaade]

It's not, for all intents and purposes, other than being able to be targeted as a seperate unit in CC, an IC and any squad he's attached count as one unit.

[Necron_Lord]

Sorry if people are confused, but my question is regarding the sharing the pain rule. We all know that pain tokens are pooled when ICs join units, and have to be evenly distributed when they leave. My question was the following: if a DE IC or DE unit attached to an IC count as 'leaving' regarding the sharing the pain rule when it is destroyed. Since it is no longer there because it was destroyed, does it take 'its' pain token with it?

[DarkLink]

While your dude is getting killed, he is still part of the unit. So him getting killed, or the rest of the unit getting killed, is just like one random guy in a unit getting killed. As far as I can tell, you get to keep the pain tokens.

Shared Pain doesn't get invoked at all, I don't believe. It only comes into play when an IC leaves a unit, not when a model is removed as a casualty.

[steelmage99]

While your dude is getting killed, he is still part of the unit. So him getting killed, or the rest of the unit getting killed, is just like one random guy in a unit getting killed. As far as I can tell, you get to keep the pain tokens.

Shared Pain doesn't get invoked at all, I don't believe. It only comes into play when an IC leaves a unit, not when a model is removed as a casualty.

I agree with the above.

[thecactusman17]

The only way that any tokens would be lost in an assault is if two wholly seperate units entered the fight with tokens and one of them died. So for example, if unit A was an Archon, and unit B was a squad of Incubi, and they charged the same squad independant of one another (say from two opposite sides), then you would not redistribute. But since they entered combat as a single squad in your scenario, then what you are left with until your next free movement phase is a unit with one model remaining.

[Necron_Lord]

While your dude is getting killed, he is still part of the unit. So him getting killed, or the rest of the unit getting killed, is just like one random guy in a unit getting killed. As far as I can tell, you get to keep the pain tokens.

Shared Pain doesn't get invoked at all, I don't believe. It only comes into play when an IC leaves a unit, not when a model is removed as a casualty.

That was my question in a nutshell. So when a unit or IC gets removed as a casualty it is not 'leaving' and therefore doesn't bring the sharing the pain rule into play. Thanks for the feedback, guys.

[Necron2.0]

I've seen a number of people play fast and loose with the rules for ICs joining and leaving a unit. The most egregious offense I've seen is someone trying to split an IC off from a unit as part of a consolidate move. The rules on page 48 spell it all out quite laboriously, however. An independent character may only join or leave a unit during the movement PHASE, not at all during the shooting phase and not at all during the assault phase. As such, your Archon would never have lost the combined "unit" pain tokens, because he never actually left the unit. Had he survived, he would have retained all the pain tokens of the unit and would have been free to join yet another unit.

[BuFFo]

Your IC and Incubi are one unit for all general purposes except for a few specific exceptions.

Power from Pain is not one of those exceptions.

You keep all the Tokens if the Incubi die because your unit that has the tokens is still alive.