Storm Raven and Dread

[Baka]

I just finished 2 stormraven's and took them in to battle yesterday. Awesome!! Big question came up? There are no firepoints on the Raven, though the magna-grapple dread is just hanging out there? Could he pop off shots?

[Morgan Darkstar]

wow that seems like somthing that should have been covered in the rules for the SR so no suprise that gw have failed to forsee such a problem. Personaly i would say yes because it's cool, however that then opens up a debate on if the Dread can be shot at while carried by the SR again i would say yes but this is one of those questions that will cause arguments across gaming tables world-wide untill a faq is done. So for now i would just treat it as a passenger of the SR so cannot shoot out or be shot at. :)

Also when you reach 20 posts and become a battle brother do not be upset that you dont receive any power armour I didn't. :D

[hisdudeness]

No.

The dread is 'embarked' on the SR. There are no fire points, so transported units cannot fire. Don't mix fluff with the rules.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Definite no. The vehicle has no firepoint, embarked models cannot fire out of it, simple as that, it's not a mistake or rules oversight. You could maybe houserule it, it's a fun idea, but officially, no.

[Gir]

No.

The dread is 'embarked' on the SR. There are no fire points, so transported units cannot fire. Don't mix fluff with the rules.

+1

[Morgan Darkstar]

Definite no. The vehicle has no firepoint, embarked models cannot fire out of it, simple as that, it's not a mistake or rules oversight. You could maybe houserule it, it's a fun idea, but officially, no.


I didn't say it was an oversight more that it will be a freqently asked question, and i totaly agree that as per the rules it cannot shoot as it is embarked on a transport without fire points, i would allow it to in a friendly game just on coolness alone aslong as i could shoot at it aswell. :)

[hisdudeness]

I agree, a Stormraven with a dread shooting a flamer out the back brings visions of coolness wrapped with awesome.

[Darkriver]

We haven't had that question come up but would have to agree that per the rules, no since no fire points. We've had the question come up several times though that since the Dread is technically embarked, can it disembark from any of the access points or does it have to be just from the rear since that is where it is mounted?

[hisdudeness]

Rules wise: Yes, it can disembark out of the front and use the assault ramp rule.

Fluff wise: I normally drop it out the back, just because it seems 'right'. I would have no real issue if others didn't follow suit.

[Tynskel]

We haven't had that question come up but would have to agree that per the rules, no since no fire points. We've had the question come up several times though that since the Dread is technically embarked, can it disembark from any of the access points or does it have to be just from the rear since that is where it is mounted?

actually, you do not even use access points--- the rules state you measure from the base.

[Baka]

I just re read the BA dex and the Dread is not embarked, it is rear with the grapple. It suffers a s4 hit if SR explodes.

[DarkLink]

What does "it is rear with the grapple" mean? Is that code for something:p.

[Baka]

Sorry typing on a small android phone. I should have put "plus a single dreadnought in its rear grapple" and that also sounds a little off!

[hisdudeness]

Here is the problem; the answer “not embarked” makes many more questions for that one answer. I prefer to keep it simple. Here are a few questions I can think of: does the dread have to end its movement within 2” to be grappled? Or can the grapple just grab him on the fly by? Can the dread be targeted since it is not embarked? Can the Dread assault the turn it is released by the grapple, it is not using the assault ramps nor disembarking. Can the dread use the skies of blood rule since the dread is not embarked. And so on. Darklink is correct, what are the rules for the grapples?

Again, fluff is being mixed with the rules. Realism has no place in the rules, so what we believe should happen most of the time does not translate to the ruleset. Fluffwise the dread may hang out the back, but rules say different. To be transported, the model must embark. Once embarked you follow all rules for embarked models (fire points, access points, targeting, etc.) except where we are told different (Dread takes a S4 hit).

[Tynskel]

I just re read the BA dex and the Dread is not embarked, it is rear with the grapple. It suffers a s4 hit if SR explodes.

the reason the Dread takes a hit against its rear armor is because every model that is embarked on an exploding vehicle takes a str 4 hit. The BA book is making sure that everyone knows to apply to the rear armor, not the front (where it does nothing).

Also, if you read the rules for embarking on a transport, you have to embark!

[Defenestratus]

If its not embarked then it doesn't move with the SR, it can be targeted independently, can fire independently, and otherwise doesn't share anything with the SR. Essentially what I'm trying to say is. there are very clearly defined rules for Embarked units. There are no clearly defined rules for a unit "mounted to rear grapple".

[justsam]

ruleswise, i would agree with it being embarked. in an apoc game, or a very informal game, of course i would allow the dread to fire and be targeted at (hit on a 6+) to adhere to the rule of cool.

[Tynskel]

actually, that stormraven variant datasheet that mbg made should have allowed a dread to fire!

[Defenestratus]

ruleswise, i would agree with it being embarked. in an apoc game, or a very informal game, of course i would allow the dread to fire and be targeted at (hit on a 6+) to adhere to the rule of cool.

no....just.... ehh... no.