Quick Skaven 8th edition questions

[George Labour]

Greetings, and quick apologies if this has already been answered. Couldn't find all the answers in a quick search so here they are.

I have yet to play a game in 8th edition and with the new skaven army book and hope to rectify this soon. However I have a few questions I'd like answered due to some odd statements from players at my FLGS.

1) Warlock engineers can ALWAYS take warp lightning as their spell no matter how many others have it right? According to the spell generation rules I can always have as many of my default spells as I want.

However one player said that only applies to signature spells from the lores in the main book. XD

2) A warlord on a bonebreaker can join a unit of clanrats, and rat ogres. Now, can he be shot if he's in the second rank of rat ogres, thus behind the ones in front?

3) Another bonebreaker question. If he's singled out to be shot while in a unit and they score several hits, I only need to apply one hit to him, unless they also managed to hit every other model as well right? Or, does he take all the hits?

I'm trieing to find an excuse to run a warlord on bonebreaker in several of my lists as it's kind of been a dream model for me. I'm also fond of using a lot of Skryre toys in place of plague stuff, and grey seers. So all three of those questions are fairly important to me.

Thanks to those who reply.

[Necron_Lord]

I haven't gotten 8e rules yet, so I can't answer the bonebreaker questions, but I can for the Warlock Engineer. Yes, he can always substitute one of the spells he rolls with Warp Lightning. Of course, that requires that you upgraded him to use magic. Read the Skaven Warhammer Armies entry on page 58.

[novatomato]

1) you are correct, the army book trumps the rule book and the skaven books explicitly states that the engineers can always drop a spell for warp lightning.

2) if the warlord is in a Rogre unit and sitting in the second rank he can still be potentially shot, a cannon ball can still hit the warlord, and if there are less than five models in the unit he could still be hit by the necessary randomization.

3)if he is singled out then they all either hit him or not.

If you want an excuse to run the bonebreaker than look no further than the cheapness of the warlord. In most games you can get a tricked out bonebreaker warlord and a basic low kit warlord who will be the army general.
The bone breaker is great to have sitting on a flank and beating through all the chaff that is there.

[George Labour]

So if I put him in a unit of five or more Rat ogres, in the rear rank he'd be safe from most frontal shooting? Or is he still able to be picked out despite being in a rear rank?

Also thanks for the answers so far, they'll help smooth out my first few games with the new edition when I finally get a chance to bring the horde out.

[novatomato]

well, he can't really be 'picked out' by normal shooting BUT, shooting cannons at characters is really easy now and if he falls under the line of the bounce he is going to get hit (provided of course that the rat ogre in front of him gets killed). All normal shooting though will be going against the Rogres and the pack masters.

[George Labour]

well, he can't really be 'picked out' by normal shooting BUT, shooting cannons at characters is really easy now and if he falls under the line of the bounce he is going to get hit (provided of course that the rat ogre in front of him gets killed). All normal shooting though will be going against the Rogres and the pack masters.

Wait, rulebook says that when you fire (non artillery) into a unit with multiple troops types, and there's less than five of one particular type the shooter gets to distribute hits into the unit, but has to hit each model once before doubling up. Am I missing something with the bonebreaker in a clanrat unit being uber sniperable?

Also, skaven can move to the back of the unit when refusing a challenge, but can they begin the game and remain back there?

[novatomato]

well the cannon ball is a 'template' weapon so everything under the line is hit and since the warlord on bone breaker is a Monstrous Cavalry model he wouldn't get a 'Look Out Sir!' roll.

and the randomization might be a thing from 7th thats stuck in my mind I'll have to look that up again, I'll get back on that as soon as I can.

As for starting in the back I shall also have to confer with the Big Red Book of Mass Destruction.

[Dooley]

I dont think you can START in the back rank (Even though it would make sense for Skaven to do so). In the BRRB it says that all characters must be placed in the front rank. (Which is silly for Master Moulders and Skweel) Not sure of the Page, dont have the book with me.

I think the Verminous Valor special rule is completely null-and void in the current rules set. If a character is in a unit even if he is in the back the unit can still use their LD value and any special rules, to include banners. The only thing a character in the back CANT do is Fight, but if you are a Skaven that might not be such a bad thing.

Example: Champion A challenges Unit B
Unit B nominates its BSB to be the Acceptor but refuses it.
The BSB goes to the back in "SHAME" and cannot fight in the combat.
Unit B STILL gets the Bonus for having a BSB even though they are in the back
(Note Neither A or B are Skaven)

The special skaven rule has no affect on this outcome.
(edit) Ok I looked up the actual ruleing on it. Apparently the unit cannot ues the LD value for the declining character during that CC phase. But Skaven can circumvent that part thanks to the Verminous Valor rule!

As far as a Warlord on a BB is concerned, yeah I think he might be getting screwed since he is a monstrous Cav Model. I think you would have to have a unit of 4+ rat Ogres to go around with him to be safe, or just put a unit of slaves in front of him!

[George Labour]

Well the plan is to put the big guy in a larger unit of clanrats (to avoid saturation fire from small arms), or a block of five to seven rat ogres. One way might avoid easy kills from gunline armies, the other means i don't have to worry about the packmasters biting it.

But we'll see how all that works out. If it proves to untenable with my usual skryre heavy force I had my friend also construct a warlitter I can put him onto. Or for another warlord to ride on if I ever get the points.