One psychic power per player turn??

[DrWobbles]

So after reading a little hobby article on GW's website i wanted to go over the rules for psychic powers again.

1st off, I had no idea you could effectively use two powers in a game turn (one during your player turn and one during your enemy's). I was always cautious using psychic powers because i was afraid i wouldn't be able to use my force weapon if a big baddie charged me.
Now this doesn't really affect many armies, i have only found the blood angels, the current grey knights, and anyone who can wield a force weapon would benefit from this. In the case of the blood angels i feel it greatly improves libbys as they can fire off a psychic shooting attack as well as grant their units 5+ cover. Its like having an epistolary without paying for it.

Speaking of which, the psykers that can use two powers in a turn are specifically forbidden to use two shooting attacks BUT can they use the same power twice if its not a shooting attack? I can't find anything that says no, and its important because it would allow psykers to re-roll failed psychic tests. I suppose i have been confused with eldar being my first army in which they're forbidden from doing this.

Man! i feel like a noob all over again.

[Paintraina]

Nope. Check out the parenthesis at the end of the paragraph about psychic shooting attacks on pg 50.

[DrWobbles]

Exactly, its under the psychic shooting attacks section. No where does it say non psychic shooting attacks can't be cast twice. The sentence in the parenthesis would seem as if it is referencing another rule, another rule i cannot find. all it says is you can only shoot one psychic shooting attack as models normally are only allowed to fire one weapon.

Note, that i am not particularly passionate about this arguement i am just trying to get to the bottom of this.

[dannyat2460]

What psy powers are you thinking of using?

If you give examples of what your wanting to know then it will be easier to help answer your question

[Tynskel]

SPAWN OF CHAOS!!!!! adgalkjbdfkgjalblaibrliubglabrgalbglrbl ilualig arlgairglia

[Xas]

there is a gazillion psychic powers you might want to re-try if you failed/got blocked.

warp time on tzentchians for instance.
might of heroes for BA (haha 2d3 attacks? ^^)
null zone for SM

[Tynskel]

hmmm... I haven't thought about adding 2d3 attacks. I usually use it on a chainfist or sgt, but now I am thinking on a lightning claw captain...


or...

Dante with the Chapter Relic Blade (double base attacks, strikes at str 10), with a chapter banner, and +2d3 attacks...

4+4+1+1+1+2d3 = 11+2d3 str10 Attacks at Initiative 7 on the charge. Not bad...
Titan Be GONE!

[Brass Scorpion]

1st off, I had no idea you could effectively use two powers in a game turn (one during your player turn and one during your enemy's).That's because you cannot.

[Tynskel]

That's because you cannot.

?

The rules state turn, and the rulebook states that turn means player turn unless specifically stated otherwise.

[Brass Scorpion]

In the 20 years I've been playing 40K never has it been possible to do anything in the opposing players turn except fight ongoing assaults (2nd edition overwatch being a big exception, that ended in 1998!). Not to say there aren't specific exceptions for very specific items, but those are clearly stated. So what makes you think that suddenly you've discovered something that everyone else has missed all these years and that everyone else who plays this game is doing wrong? There is no "magic phase" or psychics phase in 40K, not any longer, that also ended in 1998. When it says you can do something once per turn in your Codex, it's once per YOUR turn.

Every time I hear stuff like this it reminds me why I gave up on pick-up games with strangers years ago. People see something that sounds odd to them and they go off the deepend with some crazy interpretation and once they get it in their head there's no getting it out.

[Nungunz]

Definitions and rules change from edition to edition. In the rules 'turn' means players turn (page 9). The space marine codex says a librarian may use a psychic power each 'player turn' (as an example). Same goes for every other codex. The thing then boils down to this:

1) Psychic Shooting attacks may only be done in your player turn so those are out the window.
2) Force Dome is used in the librarian's movement phase so that is out the window.
3) Quickening is used at the beginning of the Librarians assault phase so that is out the window.
4) Null Zone is used at the start of the Librarian's shooting phase so that is out the window.
5) Might of the Ancients is used at the beginning of the Librarian's assault phase so that is out the window
6) Gate of Infinity is used in the beginning librarian's movement phase.

That means that all Codex: Space Marine psychic powers can only be used in their player turn........but only because the powers specifically restrict them to doing so.

Some powers in other armies have no such restrictions (blood angels for example).

[Brass Scorpion]

It's the same for everyone's psychic powers regardless of Codex. No one is casting Gift of Chaos or Jaws of the World Wolf during their opponent's turn. Psychic powers are done in your own player turn unless that spell comes with specific language that says otherwise. This whole thread was just another wacky attempt to twist the rules and get other people to validate it.

[Vindur]

Sorry Brass but its pretty clear that you can.

third paragraph page 50 "psykers can use one psychic power per player turn"

[Brass Scorpion]

So everyone everywhere has been doing this wrong forever? I don't think so. It's like that nutty "everyone can use the Space Marines' teleport homers" crap that got spewed out when the current SM Codex was released. Or the people who tried to cheat with Chaos Dreadnoughts by saying they could launch smoke to avoid the effects of rolling Fire Frenzy on the behavior table when the intent of the rules and that table are quite clear.

Read the battle reports from the GW studio in White Dwarf or on the GW website. Has anyone ever done such a thing during a studio game largely designed to demonstrate rules and tactics using those rules? If the answer is no, there's a reason for that. Because you can't do it.

You can't twist the language like that. You get to move your models once per player turn too, but it's pretty clear that it's once per YOUR player turn. Or is it? Maybe I can move my models in both player turns! See, others can come up with crazy hair-brained stuff too. Good luck finding someone willing to let you cast Jaws of the World Wolf or anything else like that during THEIR turn. You are in for a rude surprise if you try it. Have fun finding opponents with that twist on the rules.

[UltramarineFan]

I totally agree with Brass Scorpion here, when it says 'per player turn' it means YOUR turn NOT your opponent's. The only exception to this is when the psychic power actually specifies this, eg. the blood angel psychic power which says you can use it in either your or your opponent's assault phase

[Vindur]

Moving and shooting both specifically mention you may do it during your movement phase and shooting phase.
Psychic shooting attacks count as firing a weapon so can only be done during your shooting phase, so this really only applies to buffs and debuffs for the most part.
Jaws is a psychic shooting attack so I wouldn't be asking my opponent to let me cast it in his turn because its specifically says I can't on page 50

[steelmage99]

What about Might of Heroes, Shield of Sanguinius, Sanguine Sword and Unleash Rage, Brass Scorpion?

[Vindur]

In fairness to him they specify a casting time so are outside the arguement. To be honest from what I can remember the only thing I can see it really applying to is force weapons as everything else has a specific casting window, for example fortune must be cast as the start of the Eldar player's turn

[L192837465]

You can't twist the language like that. You get to move your models once per player turn too, but it's pretty clear that it's once per YOUR player turn. Or is it? Maybe I can move my models in both player turns! See, others can come up with crazy hair-brained stuff too. Good luck finding someone willing to let you cast Jaws of the World Wolf or anything else like that during THEIR turn. You are in for a rude surprise if you try it. Have fun finding opponents with that twist on the rules.

So, the argument isn't "can I cast any psychic power in the opponents turn" but something like a Force Weapon?

Would you deny your opponent the use of it in your turn because he cast something on his?

If so, then you're the one that's playing wrong. Legacy =/= correct.

[Cheeseburger!]

The blood angels psychic power 'shield of sanguinius' specifically states its used in your opponents shooting phase. there are also other powers that are used during ANY assault phase, this is different than say YOUR assault phase like some of the tyranid psychic powers. Also, any reference to 'turn' is refering to the players turn, there are essentially two player turns in one game turn.

[DarkLink]

I totally agree with Brass Scorpion here, when it says 'per player turn' it means YOUR turn NOT your opponent's.

Quote where it specifies that.

You can use one power per player turn. Some powers can only be used in your turn, some only during certain phases. But using Null Zone in your turn, then your Force Weapon in your opponent's turn (if you happen to be in CC, obviously) is perfectly legal unless you can justify your argument.

[DrWobbles]

@brass: CALM DOWN. I never claimed you could shoot twice or break any other rules. i'm talkiing about the psychic powers that are specifically used in any assault phase or your opponents shooting phase.

I also want to add that I did not discover this, I read an article about furioso dreadnoughts on the GW website and they described doing exactly what we're talking about.

[mstingray]

Looking at the current Chaos codex it says:
"A psyker may only attempt to use one psychic power per turn. The only exception of this is a model with mark of tzeentch, which can attempt to use up to two psychic powers per player turn..." pg88
It then says stuff about shooting.

In the blood angels codex it also says one/two per player turn also. pg63

[Tynskel]

I totally agree with Brass Scorpion here, when it says 'per player turn' it means YOUR turn NOT your opponent's. The only exception to this is when the psychic power actually specifies this, eg. the blood angel psychic power which says you can use it in either your or your opponent's assault phase

hah! I totally misunderstood why he was getting all pissy.

The rules state the psyker can cast every turn, that is both yours and your opponent's. However, not every power can work in both game turns. So, things like forceweapons do work in both turns, but shooting attacks do not.

duh.

[dannyat2460]

Ok so have we stoped been silly now and all agree with the rules that its 1/2 powers per player turn, thankyou.

now back to what he was asking if you can cast 2 per player turn can you cast say unleash rage twice in the same player turn?

i cant find anywhere that says you cant do the same power twice except psy shooting attacks unless you have special rules saying you can do 2 of those e.g aroman and monstorus creatures (MC can shhot 2 weapons dosnt specificaly say 2 psy shooting)

[Tynskel]

yes, you can cast the same power twice, unless specifically states otherwise.

However, in most cases, using a power twice does nothing to help you.

Ex. Gift of Chaos and arhiman (arhiman and Typhus are the only psykers that can cast multiple powers a turn, even then Typhus really only casts one power and the force weapon).

Arhiman can cast three powers a turn. He can cast Gift of Chaos 3 times in one player turn.

Ex 2. Might of Heros and Epistolary Librarian of the Blood Angels
During your opponent's assault phase, the Librarian can cast Might of Heros twice. At each successful casting, the controlling player picks one model and adds D3 Attacks.

[somerandomdude]

Ex. Gift of Chaos and arhiman (arhiman and Typhus are the only psykers that can cast multiple powers a turn, even then Typhus really only casts one power and the force weapon).

Arhiman can cast three powers a turn. He can cast Gift of Chaos 3 times in one player turn.

While you have the right idea, I'd like to point out that they are not the only models that can use multiples in the Chaos codex. Sorcerors of Tzeentch (Daemon Princes, HQ Sorcerors, AND Aspiring Sorcerors of Thousand Sons) can indeed cast two powers a turn.

[Tynskel]

oh yeah, that little phrase on page 88.

[dannyat2460]

Can anyone remember if 4th edition said that you cant do two of the same?

ill explain why im asking once i get an answer

[TheUnforgiven]

Just had a look at my old 4th ed rule book, it pretty much makes no mention of it, pretty much all it says under psychic powers it that unless specified otherwise psychic powers are treated the same as shooting attacks (require los etc)

Also mentioned that there may be some powers that can be used in other phases of the game and that these are often considered to be cantrips or lesser powers.

[dannyat2460]

Ok thanks Unforgiven

I was asking as Eldrad has a special rule allowing him to use two of the same now if it had said in 4th that could explain why he is given that rule which now would be null and void

[TheUnforgiven]

Anytime mate.