1850 competitive Daemons

[blackjack]

Lord of Change

Herald of Tz
Chariot
Master of Sorc
We are Legion
Bolt of Tz

Herald of Tz
Chariot
Master of Sorc
We are Legion
Bolt of Tz

6 Fiends of Slaneesh
UnHoly Might

6 Fiends of Slaneesh
UnHoly Might

6 Fiends of Slaneesh
UnHoly Might

7 Plague Bearers
5 Plague Bearers
5 Plague Bearers

Daemon Prince
Mark of Nurgle
Noxious Touch
Flies
Iron Hide
Wings
Daemonic Gaze

Daemon Prince
Mark of Tz
Daemonic Gaze
Bolt of Tz

Daemon Prince
Mark of Tz
Daemonic Gaze
Bolt of Tz

1850pts

[Lerra]

This looks pretty good, with a few issues . . .

How are you going to deal with Land Raiders? The one daemon prince with wings isn't enough, and Bolt of Tzeentch can only glance. Imo, remove a squad of Fiends and add a squad of Flamers of Tzeentch. They are able to glance any vehicle on a 4+, which is very valuable for slowing down (or if you're lucky, immobilizing) Land Raiders until any of the monstrous creatures can catch up tear it open (or, just buy yourself some time). It's not a great solution but it's one of the best ones that daemons have, imo. And flamers are great against heavy infantry, too.

The Lord of Change is generally considered to be one of the poorer HQ choices. He's really expensive for what you get, and he dies pretty quickly. Imo, either find the points to upgrade him to Fateweaver to escort the 12-18 Fiends, or drop him for a different HQ choice. If you want a greater daemon, bloodthirsters are popular. You could always get more Heralds of Tzeentch for more bolt action. Heralds of Khorne on chariots are also pretty popular (or Skulltaker on a Chariot). Blue Scribes is amazing but you need to run a squad of Horrors to hide him in (which would also give you access to the Changeling).

[eagleboy7259]

i think Lerra is dead on. Really what this list needs because it is so CC oriented is Skarbrand. He really helps fiends tear through units and tanks alike. S9 on the charge will make a mess out of just about anything in the game. Just remember to keep the plaguebeares and T. Heralds out of his ring of death. Khrone Heralds are rubbish really, the other HQ choices offer so much more than what they bring to the game. I second putting breath on the T.Heralds, it really is a useful ability. One change I would make would be to take gaze off the MoN Prince, it's somewhat expenseive and really how often are you going to be firing it anyway? he's either going to be running or locked in assault hopefuly.

[Connjurus]

I think that the Keeper of Secrets is probably the best choice to go with for Greater Daemons.

It may not have wings, but it DOES have Offensive grenades.

At initiative 10.

[eagleboy7259]

I think that the Keeper of Secrets is probably the best choice to go with for Greater Daemons.

It may not have wings, but it DOES have Offensive grenades.

At initiative 10.

KoS is wonderful at killing units in close combat, but when it comes to popping vehicles Bloodthirsters are the way to go, especially Skarbrand. You need a 4+ to hit a moving target and a 6+ to hit one going flat out. Yah Skarbrand gives you re-rolls, but even a normal bloodthirster will pen or glance the minute it hits (S9 + 2D6 aka at worst 2 with the back armor of most tanks being 10-12) It also insta-kills most character units which is always a wonderful thing.

[Connjurus]

It's still S7 + 2d6 with 7 attacks on the charge, and taking a KoS over a BT means you have almost enough points to get another one of those Daemon Princes Wings - points that can be easily freed off by taking off a single Plaguebearer.

Also, Daemon Princes with Mark of Nurgle are so not worth it in the Daemon 'dex.

[blackjack]

Thanks for the advice so far guys! Please keep it comming.

I am not going to take fatweaver because I consider him a crutch character. (albit an expensive one).

Gaze on the Nurgle Prince is only 20pts and makes really good use of his bs5. He should be able to use it at minimum once when he lands and secondly when he assaults, it's not vital but I had 20pts kicking around....

I may consider a Thirster with Might over the LOC (taking Gaze from the Nurgle prince to pay for it.) My main problem with the Thirster is that the LOC has 50% greater survivablilty against AP3 or better weapons, the LOC can shoot the turn he comes down, and the LOC is a bit cheaper... I really consider the Keeper too slow inspite of fleet. The idea with the LOC is not so much to win fights as to suck up heavy weapons fire...

Also keep in mind every single thing in my list except the Plauge bearers has at list some small chance to kill a Raider (bolt of tz is ap1). Any of my princes has a shot at it , my loc is str 6+2d6, nurgle prince 5+2d6, the fiends can glance and the might fiend can even pen if lucky. I realise none of these units are optimal for Raider duty but ALL of them have a potential.

[Connjurus]

Trust me - the Keeper is definitely not slow.

You can also give it Pavane of Slaanesh, which in some ways is even better than being Fleet, because it can let some of your OTHER units get an even better chance at the charge. It can essentially be used to give your Fiends an extra fleet if you use it right.

Fiends fleet, then you Pavane the unit you want them to charge towards them. 6 Fiends and a KoS on the charge can kill pretty much anything - even a TH/SS Terminator squad.

[eagleboy7259]

The Keeper is the man to take if you are running a Fatecrusher type army - which you're not. Your units are fast enough on their own merit that they don't really benefit that greatly from a single shot of pavene.

The thing about popping a Land Raider - you don't need to re-arrange your whole army to deal with one unit. There are only 2 units that boast 14 all around, not counting all the varient land raiders, and for the most part a land raider isn't a real bother to this kind of a demon army. Reedemer can't punch through inv. saves, Godhammers simply don't put out enough fire to be scary in their own right, and Crusaders... I don't know anyone excpet for BT players taking the Crusaders now that we have the Reedemer. *A bad generalization I know* You don't re-arrange your list because you might face 1 unit, like "don't play demons because - GW will change the rules for reserve in 6th ed. - Officer of the Fleet - Librarians with Null Zone - Chaos players fielding Lash Princes - etc."

[Lerra]

I guess it depends on your local meta. Around here we have an awful lot of players running 2-3 Land Raiders. Most space marine players run at least one, and about 50% of players are marine players, so the ability to deal with AV14 is a must.

I went to a 4v4 tournament where I faced a team with 10 land raiders. Eww.

[eagleboy7259]

4v4 apoc? or 4v4 team round robin?

The group I was playing with before had a lot of Melta and Mech Spam, so Land Raiders were somewhat infrequent. I mean we have them, but Razorwolf and Guard parking lots are a lot more common. Luckily I found a new group over xmas that plays friendly games - its still competitive but with a lot less spam and a lot less agruing.

[blackjack]

Well Last night I had a game against this list.

Space Wolfs.

5x10 Grey Hunters in Rhinos with melta and power weapons. (not sure why he did not take fists)

3x 6 Long Fangs w 5 Missiles

3x Rune Priests all with Living Lightning, one each with Jaws, Murderious and another storm power.

So a pretty solid list, my opponent was skilled with his army and knew all about daemons.

the game was Sieze ground with 5 objectives.

At the end of turn 6 I had killed 49 grey hunters. I still had all 3 of my scoring units but he had rhinos contesting everything and I had his last grey hunter locked with a single Fiend for the tie.

Given that his list was really tough for Daemons (basically I landed and lost 2 MCs from missile fire turn 1.) I am pretty happy with the out come.

My biggest disapointment was my Nurgle Prince, He attracts tons of fire but lacks the invul save needed to keep alive.

[Connjurus]

Tried tellin' ya, man. :(

Needs to be a Tzeentch Prince, or nothing. People trip over themselves for that one extra point of toughness in both the Chaos Space Marine codex and the Chaos Daemons codex, without realizing that canny opponents will just go, "Okay, toughness six, bolters won't do much. Have some missiles."

I learned years ago that Tzeentch or Slaanesh was the way to go, and Slaanesh only if you kept that thing in cover or behind stuff until you needed to use it.

Still, you did a great tying such a solid list with Daemons.

[eagleboy7259]

Tried tellin' ya, man. :(

Needs to be a Tzeentch Prince, or nothing. People trip over themselves for that one extra point of toughness in both the Chaos Space Marine codex and the Chaos Daemons codex, without realizing that canny opponents will just go, "Okay, toughness six, bolters won't do much. Have some missiles."

I learned years ago that Tzeentch or Slaanesh was the way to go, and Slaanesh only if you kept that thing in cover or behind stuff until you needed to use it.

Still, you did a great tying such a solid list with Daemons.

Absolutely. Tzeentch Princes also allow you to either take a cheaper prince (MoT instead of Iron Hide & MoN) or take one who is capable of popping a tank with Bolt and then assault the troops inside. Slaanesh Demon Princes are really a sleep hit unit, they sound awful on paper but getting a Pavene in there helps out Khrone demons so much - that and the Slaanesh Prince is no slouch in CC either.

[Connjurus]

Absolutely. Tzeentch Princes also allow you to either take a cheaper prince (MoT instead of Iron Hide & MoN) or take one who is capable of popping a tank with Bolt and then assault the troops inside. Slaanesh Demon Princes are really a sleep hit unit, they sound awful on paper but getting a Pavene in there helps out Khrone demons so much - that and the Slaanesh Prince is no slouch in CC either.

Exactly.

That, and my absolute favorite thing about Slaanesh in this codex is that pretty much across the board (with the exception of fiends) you can give the entire unit selection Offensive and Defensive grenades. Including on BOTH their Monstrous Creatures. On the Daemon Prince, it's a five-point upgrade.That's pretty damn good.