CSM 1750p tournament list

[Sooller]

Hi All - I have some upcoming tournaments and this is the list I am thinking of using. Total points allowed is 1750 points.

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2x Daemon Prince (wings, mark of slaanesh, lash of submission)

5x Plague marines (2x melta) + Rhino
5x Plague marines (2x melta) + Rhino
7x Khorne Berzekers + 1 Skull Champion (Power fist, icon) + Rhino
7x Khorne Berzekers + 1 Skull Champion (Power fist, icon) + Rhino

3x Obliterators
3x Obliterators
1x Vindicator (daemonic possession)

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I like to play very aggressive and so far I found this list to be very adapt to that. The oblits are kept in reserve and used to deepstrike. They usually arrive round 2 or 3 and are perfect to pop vehicles and transports with their multimelta & power fists. The daemon princes are used to assault vehicles or support my zekers in assault. With the lash they can pull units closer or move them away so that I can have the charge. (berzerkers must have the charge!!! :-)).

The plague marines are used to pop vehicles and cap objectives. I also use them in the first two turns to provide cover to the transports of my berzerkers and cause target saturation.

Turn 1 - I rush everything 12" ahead and pop smoke
Turn 2 - I try to disable / blow up dangerous vehicles and/or transports of assault units
Turn 3 - I try to assault vehicles and / or their assault units.
Turn 4 / 5 - End game (depending on the scenario)

I would welcome any feedback both on the list and also how to deal with certain armies. I have not much experience playing against orcs and dark eldar so any tips there are also welcome.

thanks

[eagleboy7259]

The list looks very good, you should do well in the tournament.

The only changes that I personally would consider making would be to drop 1 obliterator out of each squad and get a greater demon. Bezkerers on the charge backed by a greater demon popping in makes a mess out of anything. Additionally I would drop the powerfists on the skull champs and take power sword so that they can make use of the I5 on the charge. 5 S5 power weapon hits does wonders for bezerkers in cutting through tough armored troops.

From there with the leftover 70pts you could instead take a possessed chaos land raider and throw a squad of bezerkers in there to help get that squad of bezerkers stuck in

[blackarmchair]

I wouldn't drop the Oblits, especially not for a greater daemon.

It's not that Greater Daemons are bad, it's that you have to burn a champ to summon one, that means dropping one of your super-expensive Skull champs.

It's a lose-lose situation for you. Either you pay a lot of points to field many champs without wargear to keep them cheap and sacrificial or you end up losing too much just to summon the daemon.

If you were playing a more infantry-heavy list with plenty of basic CSMs a greater daemon may be more viable but as it stands the Obliterators are more worth it.


My only critique of the list is a little lack of assault power. The Zerkers form a solid core but a cc army can get to you and shred (orks for example). I think the Plague marines gotta go and you should invest in some Terminators (or chosen) or at least another zerker squad. Also, I could certainly see that Vindicator being traded for a Defiler. You take the small hit to AV and get sooo much more in return. You get a fleet walker with demonic possession and a battle cannon; unless you find yourself facing down termie heavy armies often the AP2 v AP3 isn't really relevant.

Otherwise great list. My roommate runs something very similar and has great success with it.

[Tynskel]

I have seen this list many many times.

Unless you are good at pulling tricks outta tha hat, your average player knows how to compete against this list.

I am not saying it is bad, just well used.

[Image]

It's good, but boring and usual. Beware of Psychic Hoods and Runes of Warding.

Btw, prepare to have some really upset opponents. Dual lash is one of the most irritating approaches to CSM and make sure you either let your opponent move their models or ensure you have their permission before you do so.

[DarkLink]

Get the charge on the orks. Really, that's it. Shoot them as they come at you, maneuver so they can only bring part of their army to bear at one time, and then assault. The Berzerker squad can assault a mob of boyz, win combat with ~2 casualties, and clean up the next round and be free to repeat with the next squad.

Ork mobz are too clumsy to really bring their power to bear against a good opponent. Keep in mind that your opponent can't assault you if he can't get into base contact with you because you're surrounded by another unit of orks that you just assaulted. You will win or lose your game based on your ability to maneuver around him. And you have lash. 'nuff said.

Mech orks rely heavily on getting in their opponent's face quickly. That's what obliterators are for. Once you de-mech him, you don't have much to worry about. 12-boy units fold easily, and you can avoid nob squads (lash, again) until you've whittle them down enough to take them out in assault.

Nob bikerz are a bit trickier to deal with, but not that big of a deal with a bit of practice. Mainly you deny them the charge (hey, lash can help here, too, especially since it's pinning) while hitting them with str8+ to thin them out, then if they manage to get to you you steal the charge with everything you've got and hope it works.

Overall, you deny orks the charge, whittle them down, then take advantage of their poor leadership to make them run.

[Sooller]

First of all thanks for the great feedback !

@eagleboy7259
I am not a fan of greater daemons, they cost me a champion and are usually easily out maneuvered by smart opponents.
Taking a power weapon instead of a fist for the skull champion is something I have been considering, but I tend to stick with the fist as this gives the squad also a fighting chance vs vehicles and walkers.

@blackarmchair
I agree, I carefully need to plan my assault but I rather stick with the plague marines, as this way I have 4 troop choices, and the plague marines are cheap (in this setup), mobile and hard to kill.
The idea of dropping the vindicator for a defiler is a good suggestion and I think I will try that. Thanks :)

@darklink
thanks for the info on Orcs, I will keep it in mind :-).

[Jwolf]

Against Dark Eldar deploy the Oblits at start. It is imperative that you down Raiders and Ravagers from Turn 1, both to reduce the volume of incoming fire and break up their advance. If they are playing a Webway Portal list, make sure you set up away from the WWP when the come out OR that you'll be able to block the WWP and keep infantry from coming out of it.

Wyches are problematic for Berserkers, as they go first, likely have the charge and FNP, and wear you down with wounds. That said, They aren't that scary, only Incubi are really going to kill you.

Targeting order against DE should be Transports, DL Ravagers, Incubi, Dis Ravagers, Talos, Chronos, Shooty Trueborn, Scoring units for this list. Scoring units take less priority because every unit you have can generally murder them.