Compiled GK rumors

[Mr.Pickelz]

so far, on the American website, the power armor gk's and termys are gone, the only things left is stern,a single blister of gk termy, pa justicar, pa flamer/psycannon blister, all assassins,all inquisitors(including corteaz), and for some reason the old ST with plasma pistol...

also, the blister for the GK spears is gone, the termy psycannon arms are still there.

[Brass Scorpion]

One of my local GW stores has confirmed that their Grey Knights Black Box was already shipped. Most likely it will be there Thursday, though Wednesday is possible. Other US GW stores are probably about the same I would expect.

They also said they weren't absolutely sure of the contents, but that it would likely be the Codex, Dreadknight and possibly TWO kinds of Terminators, both the regular ones and the Paladins.

[DarkLink]

Well, I can probably confirm that. A few people on warseer have gotten a look inside, including the actual codex. Here's what they have to say:


Psilencer?

It's got:
Range of 24"
Strength 4
AP -
Heavy 6

There's also the option for a Gatling Psilencer, which has the same stats excepts it's Heavy 12

A Psilencer always wounds Daemons on a roll of a 4+ unless the score required to wound would normally be less.

Interesting factoid - Psybolt Ammo gives +1 Strength to Stormbolters,Hurricane bolters,Heavy bolters, Auto Cannons and Assault

Are storm ravens the only FA choice in the codex?
No Grey Knights with Teleporters are a second one.annons. [Gk w/ teleporters are not troops]

Correct but the GM can make D3 units scoring.

Nemisis Force weapon is +1 to invun save.

Nemisis Force Halbred is +2 to initative.

Nemisis force stave 2+ invun to close combat wounds.

Brotherhood Banner - 25 points. +1 attack to unit, and all models in the unit automatically pass there pyschic test for there force weapon.

Grey knights are 100pts for 5

Psyk has random abilities, rad is -1 toughness and Blind are defensive grenades

Warp Stabilization Field allows Librarian to transport vehicle using the Summoning Power.

Servo Skulls act like mystics with extra goodies

And Brain mines means affected unit cannot act that assault phase( I think)

Psycannon

S7 AP4 Assault 2, Heavy 4, Rending

Heavy Psycannon S7 AP4 Large Blast Rending

No Storm Shields on Termies, though the NF Sword gives +1 to Inv in CC if you already have Inv save, so basic PAGK's don't get one.

Therefore GM with Iron Halo has 3++ in CC if he has Sword

Meh, I was worried that would be the heavy psycannon stats.

Whats the dealio with the DK weapons, ie: the sword, doom fist, etc.
Doomfist are basically Nemesis Dreadnought CCW(ie S10 powerfists)

Sword is S6 but allows rerolls to hit and wound

DK Daemonhammer is S10 Thunderhammer

all nemesis weapons have daemonbane which basically ignores eternal warrior for daemons and psykers

does this mean the dreadknight is only S6??
Yes S6 T6 4W 2+ 4++

Sorry that's all for now

the big question...are all NFWs true power weapons/Force Weapons

Sanjay
Already been answered: all are force weapons.


I'll add more if I find more.

Sounds like you'd better hope you can kill the GKs real quick, because they're gonna @#$% you up if you don't.

[erwos]

I was wondering why anyone would ever take a dread over a DK, and I guess we now know... Unshakable, unstunnable dread with two twin-linked S8 autocannons for cheap, anyone? DKs apparently don't have much worth talking about in terms of anti-tank other than just pounding the vehicles flat.

[Brass Scorpion]

I was wondering why anyone would ever take a dread over a DK, and I guess we now know... Unshakable, unstunnable dread with two twin-linked S8 autocannons for cheap, anyone? DKs apparently don't have much worth talking about in terms of anti-tank other than just pounding the vehicles flat.That tactic of pounding tanks to get rid of them works just fine for Orks so I'm sure the Grey Kniggits will do fine with it too.

[DrLove42]

Any word on what the dreadknights doom fists are?

[Hellstorm]

Any word on what the dreadknights doom fists are?

DarkLink already said it
"Doomfist are basically Nemesis Dreadnought CCW(ie S10 powerfists)"

any way this is going to be awesome. i can't wait for the release! :D

[Lerra]

all nemesis weapons have daemonbane which basically ignores eternal warrior for daemons and psykers

Oh, screw me sideways. That's just unfair.

[DarkLink]

Plus considering the BA "bloodfist", I would think it's pretty obvious what a doomfist is.

Halberds are awesome. Your Khorne Berzerkers just assaulted me? Take a dozen power weapons to the face before you get to hit. +1I might not have been enough to justify taking many, as there's enough stuff that hits at or before I 5. But I 6 is a different matter.

[fuzzbuket]

nothing worse than Daemons appearing all over the place. Come to think of it, I had noticed the nasty tang of ozone in the air and little arcs of lightning sparking off all the electrical equipment. Quick, call in the Imperial Guard, call in the Space Marines. No, wait, even they can't handle this many daemons! If you have a Daemon problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can enlist...

+++Communication terminated, pending investigation by the Inquisition+++



GW blog

[DarkLink]

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5368069&postcount=174
Codex cover and release prices

[fuzzbuket]

am lovin the cover!!! and the new kits prices.


the only thing im not too keen on is the weaponsmith :( GK's should have the best artifacers in the galaxy... not a SPESHmonkey? (i can imagine just a nice wee GK termi army,... with a monkey 0_0) (not to mention the counts as joke-aro armys :( )

but that cover art is soo awsome i might forgive the monkey?!

[Morgan Darkstar]

I can't forgive the monkey

There is no Monkey

hopes :)

[DarkLink]

"There is a loyalist oblit, and he is a space monkey."

Actually, it originally said "there is a loyalist oblit, and he is a Grey Knight".

[Mr.Pickelz]

so would the monkey from the Empire gunner box work as a jokero? :D

just put him on a round base and have some bolters/guns around him...i think that'll work. ;)

[jorz192]

Kind of a lazy man's question, but can anyone post the prices converted to USD?

[revnow]

For those of you who aren't limey squirrel eaters (a joke).
(Original post by Irbian on Warseer http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5368069&postcount=174)

Grey Knight Codex Softback – 28.2800 USD

Grey Knights Boxed 5 man Set – 33.13 USD

The Grey Knight Nemesis Dreadknight – 53.2 USD

Grey Knight Terminators / Paladins – 44.8 USD

(Paladins are two wounded ws5 terminators with apothecaries)

Lord Kaldor Draigo – 22.3 USD
(HQ choice that makes Paladins troops and grants D3 universal special rules)

Castellan Crowe – 16.96 USD

(Makes Purifier Squads Troops)

Jokaero Weaponsmith – 12.44 USD
An awesome space monkey!

[jorz192]

Hmmmm Looks like it's ebay for me.

[Lockark]

For those of you who aren't limey squirrel eaters (a joke).
(Original post by Irbian on Warseer http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5368069&postcount=174)

Grey Knight Codex Softback – 28.2800 USD

Grey Knights Boxed 5 man Set – 33.13 USD

The Grey Knight Nemesis Dreadknight – 53.2 USD

Grey Knight Terminators / Paladins – 44.8 USD

(Paladins are two wounded ws5 terminators with apothecaries)

Lord Kaldor Draigo – 22.3 USD
(HQ choice that makes Paladins troops and grants D3 universal special rules)

Castellan Crowe – 16.96 USD

(Makes Purifier Squads Troops)

Jokaero Weaponsmith – 12.44 USD
An awesome space monkey!

ALOT of thows prices are generally about the same as other equivalent space marine kits. I'm going to assume then that the Grey knights are going to be priced the same as any other equivalent space marine box sets.

If the Grey knights are as elite as some people suggest, counting on your army build Grey knights COULD go from most expensive to lease expensive army to collect. (Note: Never saw the leaked codex. Just have heard has second hand.)

Also the models seem like they are the right amount of detail to teach entry level painters.

Grey Knights as the new premier starter's army?

[DarkLink]

I'm really just planning on getting 10 power armor and 5 termies, and a dreadknight or three. I have the models for just about everything else, I will just need to go through and figure out how many of each special/nemesis weapon I'll need to make the lists I want.

I've got a feeling that I'll go with 50/50 halberds (I 6 without needing a psychic power is awesome against almost everything) and swords (for the invuln save on termies, and to save points on non-termies). Then each squad will get 1-2 warding staves and 0-2 daemonhammers as dictated by their battlefield role.

For the heroes, I'm thinking warding staves or swords. The 2+ makes them neigh invulnerable to many of the more nasty enemy units, which is exactly what GKs need. The ability to tie up, say, the Avatar of Kaine or a TWolf Lord with one model while everyone else goes to town on the army is priceless for the occations where you are otherwise unable to dedicate the firepower needed to kill that unit. Small units of Paladins can also fulfill this role.

Then, psycannons everywhere. You can get enough melta and dedicated AT through vehicles and henchmen units, then cover the rest of your AT needs by the fact that every squad has a couple psycannons in them. Shaking every one of their vehicles the turn you drop in thanks to that firepower would be a good way to deal with razorback spam, I think, though it might not work so well against IG. IG have enough plasma/melta in their non-vehicle units to be a good deterrent, though it could still be situationally useful.

Dreadknights won't need any shooty upgrades. GKs do anti-infantry plenty well, what they need is anti-tank, and Dreadknights don't provide that outside of CC. They do, however, put a ton of pressure on your opponent. No one wants to deal with 3 jump infantry 2/4+ 4 wound MCs in their face turn 1. That's what Dreadknights will do, no need to spend extra points on upgrades that won't really make them that much better at their job.


Looking at the list, I'm thinking that you will be hard pressed to fit in land raiders and storm ravens. Storm ravens need to be taken in pairs, and land raiders work best when the rest of the army is fully mechanized, which is a big point investment. You'll need to design a list around that very, very carefully. It might just be better to go with a descent of angels style army, which doesn't actually need to deepstrike every game thanks to that 30in jump move and the summoning.


Either way, there are a lot of interesting ways to go, and due to how expensive everything is I think this codex will offer a ton of different ways to play, since there are so many good things but you can only fit a few into any given list.

[HsojVvad]

Soft cover? Does this mean there is going to be a hard cover like the Fantasy, Orcs and Goblins?

[Dagron XIII]

From Ruleslawyer (responses to "the gribbly") on Warseer:


what do the following pieces of wargear do:
-psychotroke grenades (Random abilities from 1- nothing to 6- models in unit make individual test and those that fail attack own unit first)
-orbital strike relay (basically same as space marine but more choices/options per turn used)
-daemonblade (random daemonic abilities)
-hellrifle (36" S6 AP4 rending Possibly Heavy1)
-condemnar boltgun (missed this one)
-null rod (and this)
-psyocculum (and this)
-scythian venom talon (+2 poisoned weapon that I think can attack owner)
-ulumeatni plasma syphon (unit firing plasma weapon/s at unit containing this are treated as BS1)

Thank you
Okay, I ll try and remember more

[Drew da Destroya]

"There is a loyalist oblit, and he is a space monkey."

Actually, it originally said "there is a loyalist oblit, and he is a Grey Knight".

Now if you begin to feel an intense and crushing feeling of religious terror at the concept, don't be alarmed. That indicates only that you are still sane.

Also, please report to your nearest Inquisitor, where you will be executed for the heretical knowledge of the existence of Chaos, Grey Knights, and Obliterators.



You were making a "Watchmen" reference, right?

[DarkLink]

Yep:D

[eldargal]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=15800027a

Models seem nice, except the Dreadknight which at least has extra armour over the pilot's torso, but its still stupid to have head and limbs exposed for no reason.

Oh and Advance Orders are starting to pop up:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

[Xas]

from the text ont heir webpage apparently the warding staff is only 2++ in melee.

so the world is still sane and all you have to do is shoot them dead (without stormshields best save to shooting is 5++!) like normal terminators!

[synack]

from the text ont heir webpage apparently the warding staff is only 2++ in melee.

so the world is still sane and all you have to do is shoot them dead (without stormshields best save to shooting is 5++!) like normal terminators!

Or 4++ with cover, or 3++ with cover and the shrouding...

Bare in mind, they shoot back tho, it's not Nids we're talking about.

[DarkLink]

Right. When you have dual psycannons and a bunch of str 5 storm bolters in every squad, rhinos, razorbacks and chimeras are going to be lucky to ever have a chance to shoot before the GKs smash into their lines.

Unfortunately, Crowe is still retarded. He's not an IC, and he grants the unit assaulting him furious charge. Ironically, the fact that he's an IC mitigates the fact that units assaulting him get furious charge. Just keep him far away from other infantry units in your army and he'll be playable, but now the only reason to ever take him is for the purifiers it seems.


Edit: Oh, and I actually like the Dreadknights, though the pilot does look funny just hanging there. The rest of the model is pretty sweet, though, especially if you can put it in a cooler pose.

Edit: And what's up with warseer's mods? It took about three pages of disscussion about the new models after GW posted them before they locked the thread, because now that the thread has confirmed stuff it's not actually rumors or some bull like that.


Edit:
Found some rules


Empyrean Brain Mines are:
Pick one model after assault moves, but before attacks. Model must make and ini check or not strike (in coma)

Orbital Strike relays are either:
str 6 ap 4 ord D3 large, blast
str 10 ap 1 heavy 1 blast, lance
str 6 ap 4 ord 1, large blast, psi-shock

[Lemt]

So let's see the HS options the codex seems to have:
-For less than a Storm Raven, 5 dudes with 16 S7 AP4 rending shots, or 8 if they move.
-For a bit more than a Vendetta, a Dreadnought with 4 TL S7 rending shots and 2 TL S8 shots.
-A Dreadknight, and everything that represents.
I won't mention the LR Crusader, because I honestly think these options are better.

Also, Razorbacks with Psybolt ammo are awesome, and well worth the price of admission. It could even be worth giving them TL assault cannons, even if it then gets a bit expensive. But giving your transport the equivalent of two twin-linked Autocannons is soooo tempting.

EDIT: Woah, those Razorbacks would be worthy of a HS slot by themselves, and are transports? Yes please. A Razorback with a TL Assault Cannon and Psybolt ammo, with a unit of Psycannon Purgators inside, comes at a little more than a Land Raider. But that amount of firepower...

[erwos]

Ha, you don't put the Purgation squad inside the Razorback, you dump them in cover and let them open fire. I ran the numbers, and GKs can do a razor-spam from hell list using Coteaz and cheap henchmen.

Another build I could see being workable is dumping two B-Cs or GMs on the board (with orbital relays, if they don't scatter as bad as the MoO), and then using reserves control to deep-strike everything on turn 3.

[Lemt]

You don't put them in the Razorback, but you can get them one just to get an extra tank in that HS slot.

The problem I see with Henchmen-Razorback spam is they clash. Henchmen want to get close to get the most out of the cheap spam of plasma/melta/flamer/CC. Razorbacks want to stay at long/mid range.

Techmarines are a cheapish way of getting Orbital Strike Relays. One with a Conversion Beamer, 3 servo-skulls and an OSR comes at almost 160 points, and seems like packing a good punch. Since GKs seem to have little access to pie plates, they may not be a bad idea. Heavy Psycannons are rare, and psyker squads really unreliable. I just wonder if the OSRs will be any good. :/

[Kawauso]

I don't think the 'lack' of pie plates is anything this army has to worry about.

They have access to a few units with pie plate shots and Purifier squads. I think they'll do alright.

[DarkLink]

Take Crowe (despite the fact that he sucks horribly) and a Librarian. Then spam 5 man Purifier squads with dual psycannons and razorbacks. That's about 1400pts.

That's 5 razorbacks, 10 psycannons, all with 3+ cover saves. That's a ton of suppressive fire, and psycannons are potent enough to kill any vehicle through weight of fire. Hordes, eldar, dark eldar and genestealers will cry due to all the cleansing flames. Most anything short of mech IG will have trouble dealing with that firepower without getting blown away. And unlike most gunline armies, you can still move and shoot if you have to.

There are ways to counter it, but I want to try this out.


Edit:

Put a line of razorbacks behind a line of dudes with 3++ saves.

[gd99]

I'm a total newb here, so this may be a dumb question..and maybe I'm wrong or missing something, but I thought Daemons were immune to instant death??? (pg 27 - Chaos Daemon codex.). I do realize that a model with one wound suffering one wound would die.

[isotope99]

I'm a total newb here, so this may be a dumb question..and maybe I'm wrong or missing something, but I thought Daemons were immune to instant death??? (pg 27 - Chaos Daemon codex.). I do realize that a model with one wound suffering one wound would die.

Hence why they have avoided using the words instant death and have instead used 'removed as casualty'.

This isn't as bad as rumoured as it tests on the daemons Ld not the grey knights' so much less likely to fail.

Question: Can a grey knight squad make more than one psychic test a turn i.e. can they potentially use hammerhand and force weapons every round of combat or will they have to choose what and when they go for?

[DarkLink]

I don't believe they can take more than one test. Not that you'll need use both most of the time, but it does kinda balance itself out that way.

Edit: And apparently psycannons are flat 24", heavy or not.

[erwos]

Man, I feel bad for 'nids with the "everyone has a force weapon!" rule. A big bug that charges a squad of GKs is toast.

[DarkLink]

Unless it has synapse. I think someone did the math and there's a 38% chance of passing the test, and a 17% chance of suffering perils.

Unless they have the brotherhood banner, which grants +1A and auto-pass the force weapon psychic test:D.

[armbarred]

Darklink... you can only take one special weapon per 5 guys if I am remembering the entry correctly.

[DarkLink]

Brotherhood banner is a one per squad upgrade, that affects the whole squad. It's not a special weapon. I'm not sure what squads have access to the banner, though. I think it may just be Paladins and/or Terminators.

Any model may upgrade their Nemesis Force Weapon, but yeah, there are a limited number of psycannons, psilencers and incinerators per squad. How many depends on which unit we're talking about.

[bonedale]

holy crap! I never would have guessed the brothered hood of warriors activated ALL force weapons in the squad. I am just loving this new dex. Assaulting the GKs is just so risky for any army. I mean, that really hoses 2 would allocation tricks of nob bikers, and thunderwolves. Needless to say Thunderlords will still wreck us, but man, just lovin this freakin dex.

[HsojVvad]

Man, I feel bad for 'nids with the "everyone has a force weapon!" rule. A big bug that charges a squad of GKs is toast.

All this means is send in the little critters. ALOT of little critters. No more sending in the big bugs.

[HsojVvad]

What I would like to know is, will psychic hoods or Shadow in the Warp will affect vechicles that can do psychic powers.

[dethangel]

the incinerators and psilencers will ruin large hordes with with high strength and high hit volume. purgation squad w/ 4 psilencers and a purifier w/ incinerators and cleansing flame should ruin any horde that gets close.
well thats my theory anyway. :rolleyes:
from the little we know of the dex (ie the beta, rumor, and gettin down to the local game store to sneek a peek) :eek:
i like the dreadknight its not the prettiest model but i think its gonna kick some butt on the table. IMO

[DarkLink]

No need for psilencers or incinerators. They'll be more or less worthless, I think. GKs can get a ton of str 5 storm bolters, and then there's purifiers. And GKs don't really have too much trouble with hordes as they currently are, particularly orks. And 'nidz rely a fair amount on multi-wound MCs, which are now force weapon fodder.

Psycannons are where it's at, because GKs won't have anti-tank, and psycannons are still good against horde armies as well. Take psycannons on everything, then get some actual anti-tank on your vehicles, and you'll be pretty well set.



Needless to say Thunderlords will still wreck us, but man, just lovin this freakin dex.

I don't know about that. They're expensive as heck, which means that there will be as few space wolves as Grey Knights. That's not good for the space wolves. And with so many str 5 power weapons in the GK codex, along with the availability of 2++ saves, I don't think it would be too much to expect the GKs to absolutely wreck the rest of the SW army, then overwhelm the TWCavalry, Lords or no.

[eldargal]

(Allegedly)Edit: confirmed* as the Jokaero:
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/200685_191901017516144_153487338024179_477507_7933 324_n.jpg

Oook?


Edit: I'm embaressed to admit that the more I look at the Dreadknight, the more I like it. I still think it is quite a departure to the SM aesthetic, but... I think I might buy two. One to dismember and have some of my DE vehicles dragging the bits by chains, and one to convert. Alter the TITAN on the codpiece to VERA and paint it up.


*By people who have seen the codex.

[wkz]

...
Edit: I'm embaressed to admit that the more I look at the Dreadknight, the more I like it. I still think it is quite a departure to the SM aesthetic, but... I think I might buy two. One to dismember and have some of my DE vehicles dragging the bits by chains, and one to convert. Alter the TITAN on the codpiece to VERA and paint it up..Don't be embarrassed, I like them too. In fact, I like quite a few 40k stuff for funny reasons (the StormRaven because it looks chubby cute, for example)... and the Dreadknight is one of them, because of contrast.

The Dreadknight is powered by the holy faith and psychic might of the best of the best Gray Knights, the most elite and few in numbers of all of the Imperium military forces, its pilots willingly throwing themselves in selfless sacrifice against the enemies of the Imperium.

The Penitent Engines is powered by the eternal suffering and torture of the captured damned sinners and heretics obtained from amongst the untold, unwashed masses of the Imperium (most probably citizens), its pilots forced into the Engines and thrown against the enemies of the Imperium in one last redemptive sacrifice such that their souls may be washed clean.

I don't think there is no further opposite... if there is I would like to hear it :D

[eldargal]

I'm going to make a diorama of Crowe getting kicked into a Stormraven engine turbine.

[

[Lemt]

I'm going to make a diorama of Crowe getting kicked into a Stormraven engine turbine.

Capes are dangerous, aren't they?

[MarneusCalgar]

Crowe miniature is simply AWESOME, will be metal one or plastic one??

[DrLove42]

I'm going to make a diorama of Crowe getting kicked into a Stormraven engine turbine.

We're not thieves! Well we are thieves but...

The las tthing you shall see is my blade

Oh Darn

[Duke]

Guys and Glas, please do not post photos you have taken of the codex. GW isn't really fond of that kind of activity. I will be deleting anything that looks like it could be a book picture (As much as I hate to). As you were.

Duke

@ Eldargal: I coudn't stop laughing when I first read the crow in the engine post...

@Lemt: Yes, yes they are...Good thing this army is superman-Chapter.

Duke

[Deadlift]

The picture I have seen of the space monkey looks like muffet from battlestar galactic.

[gcsmith]

The more I see of this Release the more i relish the BT release. then I realise i collect BT so they will be crapped on. Just like tau was.

I cant belive this release tbh, so much OP, I mean whole squads with force weapons. and power weapons, what happened to different ranks of nfw.

And the models better be 30 points a model. otherwise they hardly sound balanced where armies like nids and orks are virtually auto lossed.

[wittdooley]

I cant belive this release tbh, so much OP, I mean whole squads with force weapons. and power weapons, what happened to different ranks of nfw.

And the models better be 30 points a model. otherwise they hardly sound balanced where armies like nids and orks are virtually auto lossed.

Have you seen the codex yet?
Have you played against the army yet?

Let's not get our panties in a bunch about armies being OP until we've got some time to evaluate them based on actual gameplay....

[bonedale]

The more I see of this Release the more i relish the BT release. then I realise i collect BT so they will be crapped on. Just like tau was.

I cant belive this release tbh, so much OP, I mean whole squads with force weapons. and power weapons, what happened to different ranks of nfw.

And the models better be 30 points a model. otherwise they hardly sound balanced where armies like nids and orks are virtually auto lossed.

Chicken Little called, he wants his mojo back.

Seriously, do you think GW did NO testing? This will be balanced with other 5th books. Yes codex creep does exist, (playing with a 3rd edition dex, I know this well) but stop the stupid *** sky is falling crap. Force weapons are worthless on any model that doesn't have multiple wounds, so GKs pay for them, even against grots. Heck, besides a small list of units, they make no difference.

Wait until there are battle reports to cry.

[Malachi]

New codexes almost always seem to be overpowered: Space Wolves, Tyranids, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar. And through it all, IG still seems to win all the tourneys.

If the fluff reflected the tournament scene, I would say the Imperium doesn't need super-soldiers, their regular dudes seem to be doing just fine.

[acuk]

(Allegedly)Edit: confirmed* as the Jokaero:
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/200685_191901017516144_153487338024179_477507_7933 324_n.jpg

Oook?




If only the monk.. person was a Liberian.

[steelmage99]

The more I see of this Release the more i relish the BT release. then I realise i collect BT so they will be crapped on. Just like tau was.



I play Dark Angels. 'Nuff said.

[Loken]

I play Dark Angels. 'Nuff said.

So you have a monkey carrying the Chapter Master's helm.

[Brass Scorpion]

See page 197 of your original Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader rule book for more information on the alien race known as Jokaero. It's great to see GW get back to some of their fun, even silly original ideas. I find it amusing that a lot of people think the return of the Jokaero is too silly for 40K, but they have no problem with the explanation of how Space Marine implants work or their spitting acid, etc. Hilarious.

And there's this ode to Monkeys In Outer Space:
http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/monkeynauts.html

[RedWidow]

If only the monk.. person was a Liberian.

That is a conversion in the making ... some leather armor and a proper staff and >poof< librarian...not a MONKEY!

[wittdooley]

All I know is that my Jokaero shall be name Zaius

[DarkLink]

Here's a battle report from bolter and chainsword: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=221828&st=1250&p=2685753&#entry2685753


Turns out that purifiers with halberds eat thunderwolf cavalry alive, especially when a vindicare destroys the twolve's storm shields. A lord and full unit of cavalry got in assault with the purifiers, and were all dead before they got to hit. They even rerolled it and this time the lord survived, but the cavalry still died.

[Old_Paladin]

All I know is that my Jokaero shall be name Zaius
This quote for the win.

And now I have the "Dr. Zaius" song from The Simpsons stuck in my head.

[isotope99]

Here's a battle report from bolter and chainsword: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=221828&st=1250&p=2685753&#entry2685753


Turns out that purifiers with halberds eat thunderwolf cavalry alive, especially when a vindicare destroys the twolve's storm shields. A lord and full unit of cavalry got in assault with the purifiers, and were all dead before they got to hit. They even rerolled it and this time the lord survived, but the cavalry still died.

Sounds like the SW player didn't adjust his wound allocation strategy and spread the wounds around as normal, making the force weapons even nastier.

[BrotherAlpharius]

If only the monk.. person was a Liberian.

Why do you wish he was from Liberia?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia

If I had one he would just be called "The Librarian" and in finest GW style I would, ahem, "take inspiration" from some well known novels and have fluff that he was a former inquisitor turned into a mon...jokaero in a warp experiment gone wrong.

[DarkLink]

Sounds like the SW player didn't adjust his wound allocation strategy and spread the wounds around as normal, making the force weapons even nastier.

When every single weapon in the unit inflicts instant dead, wound allocation shennanigans are good for the Grey Knight player. The whole point of the shennanigans are to spread wounds out as much as possible, but that just means that all those force weapons are each inflicting two wounds.


Edit: normal allocation is still better than shennanigans for the GKs, but all force weapons turns those wound allocation tricks from "hah, hah, you didn't actually kill off any of my guys" to "oh, i might be able to barely survive the first round of combat". The SW player is kinda screwed either way.

[Kawauso]

Don't you have to spread out instant death wounds as much as possible?

Like, if you have 3 instant death wounds in a unit of 5 2-wound models, you have to put the instant death wounds on 3 separate models?

[DarkLink]

Wound allocation gimmicks override that still. You get to assign wounds between groups of identical models. But when you actually roll saves, any hits that inflict instant death remove whole models. So if you have identical two 'nid warriors, one of which is already wounded, and you cause one thunderhammer and one power weapon wound at the same time, the thunderhammer kills the healthy warrior and the power weapon wound goes on the normal guy.

But when every single wound causes instant death, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference where you allocate the wounds. The best you can hope for is to put as few as possible on any guys with invulnerable saves and hope you make those rolls.

[Sir Biscuit]

My impression was that each squad could do one force weapon test, per turn, so only one instant death wound, not 3, though I could be wrong.

[jmach]

My impression was that each squad could do one force weapon test, per turn, so only one instant death wound, not 3, though I could be wrong.

Not how it works, I thought the same thing as well. Units with the brotherhood of psykers special rule only make one check on the first unsaved wound and if it's passed all wounds caused by the unit inflict instant death, however if it's failed none of their wounds inflict instant death.

[Lockark]

So wait. Correct me if I'm wrong. But dosen't this mean that if a Squad of Grey Knights causes three wounds to a unit of three carnifexs, they kill all three carnifexs?

O_____O

That's it. Mat Ward doesn't care about nid players. First Jaws and now this!

XD

Poor little carnifexs.
T.T

[chromedog]

I thought I'd never hear the phrase "Poor little carnifex".

Oh, the poor shnookums. Whatever will they do now?

Still don't want to pet one.

[Lockark]

You sure?
^.^

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/8403/cuteid3.jpg

[Vaktathi]

Just out of curiosity, for anyone who has gotten their hands on them in the blackboxes, are the plastic GKT's significantly different in size from the metal ones? Are they noticeable if mixed together or not?

[Alessander]

anyone who's seen the real dex want to say what Blind Grenades do (was under vindicaire wargear in the leaked pre-dex). I'm guessing they are like smoke launchers.

Has the wording on the Callidus' Polymorphine been cleaned up? The wording in the leaked pre-dex made it seem she could pop out of a vehicle, but then didn't state what armor arc you put the "reveal shots" on.

[DarkLink]

Pretty sure blind grenades are defensive grenades. I know one of the grenades available are defensive grenades.

Then there's psychotroke grenades, which have a random effect on the targeted unit, rad grenades which make the unit -1T, brain mines that force one model to make an I test or not get to attack, and psych out grenades that make psykers and daemons I 1.

[Hellstorm]

... and psych out grenades that make psykers and daemons I 1.

wait, what? i thought they would try to give daemons a chance. if this is true, i don't think any daemon list will be able to come close to touching a grey knight.

poor daemons.

[DrLove42]

poor daemons.

Least deamons get a save (most of the time) now against Psy weapons. Other wise you may have well taken them out to the shed and shot them in the head...

[gcsmith]

wow and the chance of failing a GK psychich test?
Im just wandering does force weapons count as psychich powers? if so Abhor the witch shall be used against grey knights :P

[Hellstorm]

wow and the chance of failing a GK psychich test?
Im just wandering does force weapons count as psychich powers? if so Abhor the witch shall be used against grey knights :P

at leadership 9 there is a 16% chance of failure. at 10 there is only a 8% chance to fail.
and a force weapon isn't a psychic power but it does require a psychic test.

[Kawauso]

If I recall correctly (don't have the big book with me), yes, using a Force Weapon is using a psychic power, and it counts towards however many you can use in a turn.

So any GK squad with Psychic Mastery 1 will have to choose whether to use one of their psychic powers in a turn or use their force weapons to trigger instant death - not both.

EDIT:
Just double-checked and yes, using a Force Weapon's ability is a psychic power.
"...the normal rules for psychic powers apply (remember a model can only use one psychic power per turn)..."

[gcsmith]

woot 5+ invun against the force weapon ability :p

[DrLove42]

wow and the chance of failing a GK psychich test?


The Eldar runes that force tests on 3D6 are never gonna be missing from a list now...

[DarkLink]

Luckily Grey Knights don't really actually rely too much on psychic powers. Almost all their powers are used in close combat, and by the time you see that there's been some opportunity to kill off any enemy farseers/hoods, and thanks to nemesis force weapons Gks don't usually need to get off hammerhand or their force weapon power.

Those psychic powers are just force multipliers that let an otherwise vanilla GK squad devastate, say, TWolf Cavalry or a similar hammer unit. They're deadly even with them, but even without them they're not exactly pushovers.

[Kawauso]

I don't think anyone is saying they're pushovers.

It does leave me a little concerned, however...
I don't want to pass judgment on a book I haven't seen and cry 'the sky is falling' or 'codex creep' like so many people on the internet always do, but some of the stuff I've heard about the book just seems nutty.

It sucks that my local GW is moving/renovating a new locale into a battle bunker. There's nowhere I can go to see the codex.

Is it true that a 5-man GK squad is only 100 pts? How much for the additional squad members? That seems really....quite good. 10 pts more than a regular marine squad, and at the loss of Chapter Tactics/Combat Squads they get force weapons, storm bolters and 2 psychic powers?
I'm just really curious to see how the basic troop units are going to be costed for the most part.

The more elite stuff in the codex doesn't worry me as, from what I understand, they're all boatloads of points. I mean, I'm dreading fighting purifiers with some of my armies, and I understand that all of those units are going to be well worth their points, but I'm not as...apprehensive as I am about finding out how the core units of the army are costed.

Damn, I wish I could look at that book. :P

[DarkLink]

I don't think anyone is either. I'm just saying that you're not going to always have to take all the anti-psyker stuff that you can cram into your list in order to beat them.

In fact, for everything that psykers do to slow down Gks, Gks get special rules and equipment to absolutely slaughter any and all psykers. You want to target me with JotWW? You're at -4 leadership thanks to my Reinforced Aegis. And you have to get past my psychic hood. I shoot at you and I have an inquisitor with a bit of wargear? I'm BS 10 with all those psycannons against the unit with a psyker in it.



And, yes, GK Strike Squads are 20pts per dude, and you get a free justicar. They're only ld 8-9, don't have Chapter tactics (they do get combat squads, though), and no melta, as well as a few other drawbacks. Unlike vanilla Marines, however, we don't get 200pt THSS squads and other "cheap" units. Every one of our units is extremely expensive. A GK army might literally be an HQ, Inquisitor and henchmen squad, 2 GK Strike Squads, and a few Terminators in a Land Raider. Do they seem so broken then? No, not really. Much better than they are now, but all that means is that we can actually compete.

Remember that you have to look at unit costs within the context of the whole army. A unit might seem broken until you start putting some lists together and realize how little you actually get in a 1500pt list. That one "broken" unit is a huge chunk of your army. It has to be really good, because you don't get much else.

[Lemt]

Are you sure they don't have combat Squads? I haven't seen the final codex, so it may have changed. But the leaked version does list them with Combat Squads as a rule. As for costs, a 10-man squad double the cost of a 5-man squad. And for a fifth of the cost of 10 of them you can improve all their storm bolters to S5 (again, not sure of it's the same in the final codex).

[Shyft]

Are you sure they don't have combat Squads? I haven't seen the final codex, so it may have changed. But the leaked version does list them with Combat Squads as a rule. As for costs, a 10-man squad double the cost of a 5-man squad. And for a fifth of the cost of 10 of them you can improve all their storm bolters to S5 (again, not sure of it's the same in the final codex).

Take this with a grain of salt, as my familiarity with the actual rule is suspect, but Chapter Tactics what most ICs replace Combat Tactics with. Combat Tactics allows you to split squads. etc.

[Shyft]

ah, apologies for the rapid-fire post, but quick query for anyone who would know: Which units can Deep Strike?

[DarkLink]

Dreadknights and Terminators and Interceptor squads. I do not know if Strike Squads or Purifiers can deepstrike, and I don't think Dreadnoughts can.


Are you sure they don't have combat Squads? I haven't seen the final codex, so it may have changed. But the leaked version does list them with Combat Squads as a rule. As for costs, a 10-man squad double the cost of a 5-man squad. And for a fifth of the cost of 10 of them you can improve all their storm bolters to S5 (again, not sure of it's the same in the final codex).

They have Combat Squads, meaning they can split their units in two. They do not have Combat Tactics, so they cannot voluntarily fail morale tests. So, yeah, same as the codex. And yes, the psybolt upgrade would always work for everyone in the unit.

[Gravidian]

I believe Strike Squads can deepstrike but purifiers can't.

[isotope99]

Presumably Storm Ravens can also deep strike, but it's risky with such a large footprint.

Sadly I don't think they can scout even with the GM's Grand Strategy rule as this can't be applied to non-walker vehicles, unless this has changed from the draft.

[Gravidian]

Damnit that was my alpha striking plan!!

[Brass Scorpion]

Here's some bad news about the Grey Knights Codex. Remember the binding problem that became persistent with these books starting with the current Dark Elf Army book and lasting all the way through Warriors Of Chaos as a result of GW switching to a new and inferior binding company in China? Well, I've seen two copies of Codex Grey Knights already and BOTH of them had the problem in the usual spot, the next to last page of the book. Within minutes of people glancing at the book it was splitting apart all the way down to the binding at the next to last page. If you look at these books on the spine you can even see that the glue does not go all the way across. If I can't find a decent copy of the book on release day, I won't be buying one till they fix the problem.

[Aknon]

Yeah, you've got one turn to tarpit them or GTFO, there's no possible way even the fiercest IG gunline is going to take down a full squad of those guys in one round of shooting.

sit back and watch me roll...

[Lerra]

Well, I've seen two copies of Codex Grey Knights already and BOTH of them had the problem in the usual spot, the next to last page of the book.

*sigh* :( Well, at least you can re-bind it yourself at Kinko's for about $10 if needed. I actually like it better than the original binding because it's easier to flip through pages and leave a page open.

[Tynskel]

Presumably Storm Ravens can also deep strike, but it's risky with such a large footprint.

Sadly I don't think they can scout even with the GM's Grand Strategy rule as this can't be applied to non-walker vehicles, unless this has changed from the draft.

Do you realize that the Stormraven's "footprint" is the same size as a 5 man Terminator Squad's "footprint". The shape is just a little longer along the 'a' axis, but narrower along the 'b' axis.

[DrLove42]

*sigh* :( Well, at least you can re-bind it yourself at Kinko's for about $10 if needed. I actually like it better than the original binding because it's easier to flip through pages and leave a page open.

Well "supposedly" this will be the last paperback book. All will be hardback from now on, the only reason GK are in paper, is because they were supposed to be released earlier, so the printing order had gone through...

Least thats what i heard...

[gcsmith]

I hope about hard back, I want a hardback Tau book, so if my men can't win for the greater good, by book can survive a good nose breaking :P

[HsojVvad]

I hope about hard back, I want a hardback Tau book, so if my men can't win for the greater good, by book can survive a good nose breaking :P

So you willing to pay $10-$15 more just for hard cover eh? Talk about pricing people out of the hobby.

Lets see, if 6th edtion is going to be like Fantasy, that means the book will be 300-500 pages. So that is about $100 for the rule book. Why are we paying half for a codex with only 1/3 or less of the pages?

[DarkLink]

If you look at these books on the spine you can even see that the glue does not go all the way across. If I can't find a decent copy of the book on release day, I won't be buying one till they fix the problem.

Tear it apart, find a hole punch and stick it in a binder. Or get it spiral bound at staples. makes the book easier to flip through anyways.

[plawolf]

Hardback = stealth price hike. Dislike.

If the GK book start falling to bits, I will prob PDF it onto my iphone. So much more convenient to store, carry and use to search for stuff as you can search by keywords instead of having to flip through the whole thing by hand.

The only reason I don't do it with all my codexes is because you need to basically rip the book apart and feed the pages through one at a time to get the scan quality where the software would be able to recognize individual words, and its a bit of a shame to do that to a good book. However, if this one is falling apart anyways, well...

[gcsmith]

TBh im british and hard back is like £4 more, seems fair tbh :)

[DarkLink]

I don't buy codices for the fluff, I buy it for the rules. I want those rules as cheap as possible. I can go out and buy four or five full length novels for the price of a single codex, and get much more enjoyment out of the storytelling there. And if I want to look at pretty pictures of minis, that's what cool mini or not is for. Big thumbs down to hardback codices.

[Lockark]

I dsilike hard back also. I enjoyed the way the books in 4th were formated. They gave you a army list, with the specail rules listed in the unit entry.

It was fast to use, and easyer to figure out what each unit dose.

The way the books are written now is stupid. What are the only place the special rules are printed, are on a unit's fluff page. It just means extra unnecessary flipping.

[DarkLink]

I agree. I'd like to see the rules and fluff completely separate, with the rules in one single concise section. And, if possible I'd like them to release the rules on their own as a pdf for free, though I can fully understand why they don't do that.

[Kawauso]

While I agree that having the fluff and rules separate would streamline things, I have to disagree on older books being faster and easier to use.

Using the Tau codex for example, I hate having to flip around to find the Summary page; I like having it at the very back of the book. Also, the special character entries are annoyingly formatted, with rules spilling out from one page onto the next where the artwork is displayed, and they aren't really separated that well. The unit entries themselves in the codex are really awkwardly formatted as well; I much prefer the unit entries in the 5th codices because they are formatted like a table, with all of the unit's available options clearly sorted out in a specific spot. Having to flip back to the armoury to find out something like the point cost of a vehicle upgrade is really annoying.

In fact, if you took the current layout of the 5th edition books and just put the special rules in the unit entries in the Army List section of the book, I think they would be just about perfect. Just place the armoury section right before the Army List and then, boom, the last pages in the book are all rules that you can easily access.

And from what I understand of how Privateer Press does things, I have to say that doesn't sound like a bad system, either. :P Can you imagine how awesome it would be if GW could just release a new model that wasn't in any 'dex that -came with the rules on how to use it-?

[Lemt]

I don't buy codices for the fluff, I buy it for the rules. I want those rules as cheap as possible. I can go out and buy four or five full length novels for the price of a single codex, and get much more enjoyment out of the storytelling there. And if I want to look at pretty pictures of minis, that's what cool mini or not is for. Big thumbs down to hardback codices.

That's because you don't live in Spain, where 18€ is quite cheap for any novel.

[Connjurus]

And from what I understand of how Privateer Press does things, I have to say that doesn't sound like a bad system, either. :P Can you imagine how awesome it would be if GW could just release a new model that wasn't in any 'dex that -came with the rules on how to use it-?

Like they used to?


I like codices. I like the codex format. I don't know what the big problem is - they've certainly improved over the years.

[bonedale]

monkeyboy made it into the advanced orders. News to me, may have been there. Anyway, he is also on the GW welcome page with some Purifiers. A little out of place.

I like the model, but with an Inquisitor warband.

Oh and Crowe is up as well.

[Brass Scorpion]

Here's the Advance Order link. I can't wait to have an orangutan or two in my "dignified" Grey Knights army. Hilarious!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Release date April 16!

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1720126a_99060107066_Jokaero_445x319.jpg

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1720121a_99060107065_CastellanCrowe_445x319.jpg

[jorz192]

The Jokero model is funny, I think a little bit of humor mixed into 40k is a good thing.

The Crowe model is annoying to me, they recycled the pose from the Korsorro Khan model. The Draigo model is too similar to the Lysander sculpt. A good portion of the character sculpts have no sense of movement or energy, they are just sculpts of soldiers with a lot of detail but little or no life.

The former Witch Hunter inquisitors now available as grey knights have a more fluid pose which I like, I am thinking about ordering one of them.

[Brass Scorpion]

Making a Crowe from on of the plastic GK models should be easy. Except for the cloak and back banner he's really not so different from the regular troopers. There are plenty of plastic books around from GW sprues including the new GK sprues to cover that too.

And I also like the return to a more humorous tone for 40K as more elements of first and second edition keep making their way back into the game Codex by Codex.

[jorz192]

Making a Crowe from on of the plastic GK models should be easy. Except for the cloak and back banner he's really not so different from the regular troopers. There are plenty of plastic books around from GW sprues including the new GK sprues to cover that too.

And I also like the return to a more humorous tone for 40K as more elements of first and second edition keep making their way back into the game Codex by Codex.

I agree with making character models from regular sprues, it works just as well and I have some blood angel faces without helmets that will look great combined with Grey Knight bits.

I haven't bought a metal model in a long time because of the static sculpts.

And I have bought from you on Ebay, I remember you having good deals on used models.

[Brass Scorpion]

And I have bought from you on Ebay, I remember you having good deals on used models.Thaniks very much. I'm still divesting myself of 20+ years of overindulgence in this hobby. You can check out my auctions any time at:
http://shop.ebay.com/zigra/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

Most of my stuff for this week ended yesterday and a lot of it went really cheap, but I should have some more stuff up soon. Thanks!

[DarkLink]

Heck, I have a converted Emperor's Champion that I stuck a storm bolter on that I can use for Crowe and any Brotherhood Champion.

[Kawauso]

The Crowe model is annoying to me, they recycled the pose from the Korsorro Khan model. The Draigo model is too similar to the Lysander sculpt. A good portion of the character sculpts have no sense of movement or energy, they are just sculpts of soldiers with a lot of detail but little or no life.


While I agree with you that the pose is lacking a good sense of movement or energy, they did -not- recycle the pose from the Khan model. :P The Khan model is much more interesting in terms of pose - he's in the middle of a charge, and his weapon is raised like he's about to strike someone down with it. Crowe doesn't look nearly as intimidating.

The detail on the sculpt is nice, but I can see a lot of people just doing some kit-bash work with the plastic GK box to make counts-as Crowe models, as has been suggested earlier.

[Vaktathi]

I agree with making character models from regular sprues, it works just as well and I have some blood angel faces without helmets that will look great combined with Grey Knight bits.

I haven't bought a metal model in a long time because of the static sculpts.

And I have bought from you on Ebay, I remember you having good deals on used models.

They are a bit different, enough so that one certainly isn't going to confuse them, but lets also be honest, there's only so much you can do with models that have such similar equipment.

Lysander & Draigo: Both in terminator armor with stormshields, capes and big honking CC weapons. Only so much that can be done there.

[Lockark]

I'm going to have a hard time not quoting planet of the apes every time a Jokero blows up one of my tanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw&feature=related

Someone needs to do a diorama of a Jokero blowing up a chaos rhino, with a CSM punching the ground.
XD

[DarkLink]

There is that giant space Marine statue someone could convert to look like the ruins of the Statue of Liberty:D

[eldargal]

The irony is Crowe's pose is an actual defensive fencing* ward which makes perfect sense given the weapon he is holding.:rolleyes: Its static and un-dynamic right up until he takes someones head off with a relatively small set of arm movements.



*By which I mean 16th century style, not modern namby-pamby fencing.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

All I have to say about the Jokaero is 'Right turn, Clyde'.

And Eldargal, you're so ******* cool, I love your snippets of knowledge like this. Always wanted to do swordfighting, so I'm going to look for somewhere local that does it - cheers for the inspiration!

[L192837465]

All I have to say about the Jokaero is 'Right turn, Clyde'.

And Eldargal, you're so ******* cool, I love your snippets of knowledge like this. Always wanted to do swordfighting, so I'm going to look for somewhere local that does it - cheers for the inspiration!

LOL Someone's in love... HAHA j/k

Having seen the models, the terminators come with 16 different heads, a crap-ton of extra awesome, and the dreadknight is super awesome to build.

Looking forward to a unit of each just to paint.

[Lemt]

I've promised myself I won't buy any GK stuff unitl the FAQ/Errata comes out.

I may break that promise. &_&

[Connjurus]

The irony is Crowe's pose is an actual defensive fencing* ward which makes perfect sense given the weapon he is holding.:rolleyes: Its static and un-dynamic right up until he takes someones head off with a relatively small set of arm movements.



*By which I mean 16th century style, not modern namby-pamby fencing.

Exactly. Looks a lot more intimidating than a lot of the other special character sculpts GW puts out - it's that cool, composed, "Go ahead and charge me. Watch what happens," pose.

[Galadren]

So, my shop finally got a preview copy of the codex. I have to say, the amount of *****ing, moaning, crying, and whining was amazing. Several people said they would never play against the army and that once again GW was releasing a broken codex.

I found it all hilarious, to be honest.

[DarkLink]

I just played a game vs a good SW player, and won narrowly on objectives. Fun, competitive and balanced, though admittedly I haven't really played the army enough to know what the best builds are. My list could've been a bit harder, but it did well against a solid SW list.

So my impression from actually playing is the same as from viewing the actual codex. It's fun and competitive, but quite balanced. I'm just thankful that the guys I play with are actually smart enough to realize this as well. The fact that a couple of them are good competitive players helps, since they actually understand what is good and what isn't.

[eldargal]

I have to admit from what I've seen GK are damned tough but also very expensive once you start adding on all their fancy bits. I mean if I can outnumber you two to one with Eldar/Dark Eldar then you are going to have difficulties, and from looking at some of my brothers GK lists I can do that.

[plawolf]

My impression so far is that the new GKs are in principle the same as the old ones and much of the same strategies and principles for the old book also apply here. Your main strength is still medium to close range fire power with CC mainly intended to finish things off instead of being their first resort.

Similarly, when building lists you need to keep things cheap and dirty, load up on troops and not go overboard with fancy options no matter how tempting it is.

Veteran GK players should have no issues but band wagon jumpers might take a while to figure this out.

[Brodicus]

So from what I can tell GK only get 1 attack as I see no mention of true grit nor storm bolters acting as pistols... is this correct or has anyone seen something in the dex to the contrary?

[Connjurus]

This is true.


In return, they all have Force Weapons.

[Lemt]

A great deal IMHO.

[DarkLink]

Considering that a 10 GK SS with 2 psycannons are cheaper than they used to be by ~100pts, I'd say they got the good end of the deal.

[Revarien]

Seen the preview dex in the shop, and I've got to say, I'm entirely surprised at how little fluff there is for the army, while the individual units/characters got a HECK of a lot of fluff...

In fact, thinking back on it, it seems like that most of the dex is devoted to rules and explanations (fluff and mechanics)...

Not to mention... Hellrifles?! Holy crow they're nasty... wounding MEK on 2+ and outright killing them due to low AP.... yeesh. Didn't get to see what carried it though as I had to leave rather quickly after delving into it.

Fun looking dex though... will have to bust out my metal models again ;)

[Shyft]

Revarian, Hellfire rounds are one of the special options Vindicare Assassins may choose to fire every shooting phase.

The other two are Shield Breaker: Nullifies an Invulnerable Save for the Rest of the Game, and Turbo Penetrator; two wounds against models, or str 3 +4d6 for armor penetration, Rending. Also AP 1.

Vindicares are also BS 8, so they uh, hit on +2s I think. Yeah, +2s.

[DrLove42]

Shiled Breaker (the Vindicare anti ++ save bullet) only nullifies the save IF IT IS GIVEN BY WARGEAR. So things like a storm shield, or a DE Archons Shadowfield are wargear and so can be removed.

But natural invulnerable saves, like Greater Deamons or Lelith's dodge save cannot be removed. The bullet alsio has to wound, so its shot at BS8, and still needs a 4+ to wound, cos its a sniper round

[Lemt]

Revarian, Hellfire rounds are one of the special options Vindicare Assassins may choose to fire every shooting phase.

The other two are Shield Breaker: Nullifies an Invulnerable Save for the Rest of the Game, and Turbo Penetrator; two wounds against models, or str 3 +4d6 for armor penetration, Rending. Also AP 1.

Vindicares are also BS 8, so they uh, hit on +2s I think. Yeah, +2s.

You hit on a 2+, yeah. And if you miss, you re-roll and hit on a 4+. BS 8. You subtract the BS from 7 to see what you need to roll to hit. Since the best you can have is 2+, you only "spend" 5 points of your BS. The extra 3 carry over to the re-roll, 7-3=4.

Missing with a Vindicare is hard, yeah. :D

[dethangel]

Shiled Breaker (the Vindicare anti ++ save bullet) only nullifies the save IF IT IS GIVEN BY WARGEAR. So things like a storm shield, or a DE Archons Shadowfield are wargear and so can be removed.

But natural invulnerable saves, like Greater Deamons or Lelith's dodge save cannot be removed. The bullet alsio has to wound, so its shot at BS8, and still needs a 4+ to wound, cos its a sniper round

the book says the shield breaker round only needs to HIT(not wound) as it does no damage it only removes inv saves imparted from wargear.
hellfire rounds wound 2+ ap1
turbo penetrator wound 4+ ap1 2wounds on minis or 4d6 armor pen ap1 for vehicals.

edit: i just went to my LGS and read the rules the shield-breaker: it must wound so 4+ then remove wargear inv save.
sorry for the bad info i confused the beta rules with the actual new codex rules. oops my-bad.

[Skragger]

Revarian, Hellfire rounds are one of the special options Vindicare Assassins may choose to fire every shooting phase.

The other two are Shield Breaker: Nullifies an Invulnerable Save for the Rest of the Game, and Turbo Penetrator; two wounds against models, or str 3 +4d6 for armor penetration, Rending. Also AP 1.

Vindicares are also BS 8, so they uh, hit on +2s I think. Yeah, +2s.

Wait. Waaaiittt..

Str 3 +4D6? That means an average of 13-15 for anti-armour roll? a sniper rifle bullet that can be fired every turn that can, based on averages, punch through a leman russes (russ'?) front armour?

[Lemt]

Wait. Waaaiittt..

Str 3 +4D6? That means an average of 13-15 for anti-armour roll? a sniper rifle bullet that can be fired every turn that can, based on averages, punch through a leman russes (russ'?) front armour?

And shot at BS8.

[Skragger]

And shot at BS8.

*dies a little on the inside*

[Kawauso]

The Exitus weapons used by the Vindicare have no strength value.

So the Turbo-Penetrator has 4D6 for AP, but no base strength.

But yes, it is fired at BS8. So he hits on 2+, and if he rolls a 1 re-rolls to hit on a 4+.

Edit: Oh right, and the Exitus weapons are AP1, also, so a Turbo-Penetrator round gets +1 on the damage chart for vehicles.

Double Edit: Ah, crap, forgot about the 'sniper' rule...so yeah, I guess the Exitus Rifle would be 3 strength against vehicles based on that. :/ Yikes.

[DarkLink]

He gets rending, too. So you roll any 6's on those d6, that's an extra d3.

[Kawauso]

Here's a question:
The Turbo Penetrator is worded as having "an Armour Penetration value of 4D6".

Bray'arth Ashmantle (a Salamanders Dreadnought HQ from IA10) has a rule called "Wrought by Vulkan" which is worded:
"Weapons and attacks that gain any form of additional dice to penetrate Bray'arth's armour do not do so in his case, and Lance weapons do not lower his Armour Value."

Based on those wordings, would the TP shot still get the 4D6 for AP? Because I'm not sure if that's 'additional'...
Similarly, would Wrought by Vulkan negate Rending bonuses? Those would be 'additional', would they not?

[dethangel]

Here's a question:
The Turbo Penetrator is worded as having "an Armour Penetration value of 4D6".

Bray'arth Ashmantle (a Salamanders Dreadnought HQ from IA10) has a rule called "Wrought by Vulkan" which is worded:
"Weapons and attacks that gain any form of additional dice to penetrate Bray'arth's armour do not do so in his case, and Lance weapons do not lower his Armour Value."

Based on those wordings, would the TP shot still get the 4D6 for AP? Because I'm not sure if that's 'additional'...
Similarly, would Wrought by Vulkan negate Rending bonuses? Those would be 'additional', would they not?

yes. 4d6 is the base value.. weapon strength is X
i believe that rule applies to melta and chainfist type stuff.

[Lemt]

The Vindicare Assassin has a special Sniper rifle. Sniper Rifles are always considered S3 against vehicles. However, I've agreed with my local group that until it gets clarified I won't add 3 to the 4D6.

And as with Monoliths, anything that denies extra penetration rolls SHOULD **** over the Vindicare, but I'd wait for the Errata/FAQ to be sure.

[DarkLink]

Monoliths only ignore the bonus D6 for things like meltaguns and monstrous creatures. They don't ignore other things like meltabombs. Meltabombs don't get a bonus dice. They don't use the standard str+1d6 penetration, with an extra die to penetrate. Their penetration is just straight 8+2d6.

Same thing here. The vindicare does not appear to use the standard str 3+d6 penetration. The penetration is just flat 4d6, with rending. The monolith does ignore the rending, but not the 4d6.