Tzeentch is out of the spotlight

[mountaincycle661]

I recently posted a thread in the rumors section related to the possible release of the FW lord of change. I got a decent amount of replies, which led me to believe that there are probably a buch of tzeentchian fans out there just like me who feel that Tzeentch is way, way out of the spotlight.

Ive mentioned before that I may be biased, being a thousand sons player and all. But even so, it doesnt take a Tzeentch fan to realize that theres a serious lack of GW and FW love for the architect of fate. Lets take a look:


- demons codex is released. New, significantly cheaper plastic kits for demonettes and bloodletters. Flamers and horrors remain metal, expensive and still horribly designed (anyone whos tried to glue together a horror knows what im talking about)

- Forgeworld releases chaos models to go with the seige of vraks series. These include nurgle ogryns, nurgle blight-drones, plauge marine upgrade kits, plague terminator upgrade kits, nurgle sorceror character, nurgle demon prince and herald.......Khorne brass scorpion, berserker upgrade kits, berserker termi upgrade kits, khornate ogryn with hounds, demon prince and heralds.....Get my point? :rolleyes:

-Demons second wave: coming soon are the plastic plague bearers, new demon prince. Not a whisper of anything tzeentchian. :confused:

-Out of all the products forgeworld makes, only two are related to slaanesh (greater demon and drednaught) and only ONE is tzeentchian (drednaught). Thats it.


Am i the only one out there that feels outraged with the lack of attention to the other gods besides Khorne and nurgle? Hell, slaanesh didnt even get a special character greater demon in the demons codex. Thousand sons rules are just awful, too.

So, anyone else out there wanna give GW a swift magic-based attack to the arse? :cool:

[BuFFo]

GW favoring Khorne and Plague Marines?

Never......

[mountaincycle661]

yeah, i know. but i was kind of hoping that more people would come to that realization and maybe make a fuss about it...

somehow i get the feeling GW watches these forums...

[Pariah Stevo]

i think everyone wants to give GW a swift magic based kick in the arse. Ya, Gw will always focus on what sells over what needs updates/models and the like. of course FW is working on a greater deamon model. I don't have a clue when it's coming out, but the pics that have surfaced have looked amazing.

[The Undying]

don't worry its all just part of the plan;)

seriously though i think Khorne is the most popular chaos god though I'm not sure why nurgle gets so much love as i'm pretty sure Slaanesh is number two

[Chumbalaya]

Tzeentch was in the spotlight?

[Xas]

the reasons for FW are quite simple:

they wanted to do siege warfare with the deathkorps and khorne/nurgle are basically the only gods that would fit the vraksian renegades.

khorne/nurgle are more acessible for the common folk. slanesh might be acessible for cultists too but not on a besieged world.


with the upcoming eldar-book I can foresee some slanesh/tzeentch love because it would fit with slanesh beeing the eldar nemesis and tzeentch counteracting what the pesky farseers are trying to do :)

[person person]

yeah, i know. but i was kind of hoping that more people would come to that realization and maybe make a fuss about it...

somehow i get the feeling GW watches these forums...

I know a redshirt that browses the net when bored at home finding funny pic.s and cool conversions.

If you look at CSM cult troops:

Khorne Berzerkers are always on shelf at my local GW, they're made of plastic, $36, 12 models, most popular.

Plauge Marines are usually on shelf, all metal, 7 models, $50, 2nd most popular.

Thousand Sons very rarely in stock, 9 models metal/plastic, $50, 3rd.

Noise marines are never in stcok unless ordered, metal/mostly plastic, 8 models, $45, Last.

Looks like Slaanesh is least popular, judging by the CSM armys I see, yes. I don't get why the tzeentch greater daemon is a bird though, I think it should be a flying octopus.:D

[Legionary]

Part of the thing with the Slaaneshi scarcity is that the +1 I from the Icon or Mark is less immediately appealing than the other benefits from the rival gods' marks. Another part is that Noise Marines are old fashioned models, appealing to that earlier GW fondness for silliness that has almost entirely been abandoned in 40K modelling since.

[mountaincycle661]

the reasons for FW are quite simple:

they wanted to do siege warfare with the deathkorps and khorne/nurgle are basically the only gods that would fit the vraksian renegades.

khorne/nurgle are more acessible for the common folk. slanesh might be acessible for cultists too but not on a besieged world.


with the upcoming eldar-book I can foresee some slanesh/tzeentch love because it would fit with slanesh beeing the eldar nemesis and tzeentch counteracting what the pesky farseers are trying to do :)

I disagree, frankly. I think having some sort of tzeentchian sorceror or influence in the vraks campaign would work quite nicely. Hell, they made a special character nurgle SORCEROR. You could have a sorceror playing the commander like a puppet to achieve some seedy goal, or have hordes of mutated experiemental soldiers with tentacles and feathered wings fly over the battlefield to...i dont know...do something cool!

In the end, i would agree that khorne and nurgle suit themselves well to seige warfare, but that doesnt rule out the others entirely.

even if they werent in the vraks campaign fluff, i still wanna see tzeentch get some kick *** new models!! I mean, have you even really LOOKED at a horror model?! they're so awesome looking, but so poorly put together! you wouldnt even have to change the model at all, just produce them in plastic exactly how they are now.

copy, paste, cha-ching! :D

[Caldera02]

I don't have a chaos army but when I do get one eventually it will be all tzeentch. So I would have to agree with the OP on the bias towards money making and less on the hobby at heart.

[Skragger]

You see this happening a lot in the GW video games a lot too.. Khorne especially (Dawn of War series was all Khorne; Mark of Chaos was Khorne/Nurgle only).. I understand throwing in Slaaneesh is an automatic M rating, but Tzeentch?

All this is very discouraging as I look forward to beginning my own Thousand Sons army in the not too distant future, but the signs are pointing to a hard to find and uber pricey army

[Kahoolin]

Tzeentch has always been my favourite power. I like the old moon-headed dudes on discs you used to see in fantasy.

I have to say though, just because GW places more emphasis on Khorne and Nurgle doesn't mean they are doing it only for money. Khorne and Nurgs are the most popular I think for various reasons, and if the fans like them why wouldn't GW give the fans what they want?

People seem to think Khorne and Nurgle are only popular (and Tzeentch not so much) because GW have somehow brainwashed people on purpose to sell more of those models( (and less Tzeentch). That seems a pretty strange thing to believe.

They make and sell models in response to fan acclaim, fan acclaim isn't in response to the models.

[MaidenManiac]

I frankly thinks this has a lot to do with designing issues:

Designing Khornate units is easy: Make a model(of any sort), mod it to look more savage, add skulls = done

Designing Nurglesque things is the easiest: Make a model(of any sort), eat curry, get bad stomach, bring model to toilet, uuhm I think I dont need to explain what happens here = model done, and even painted on the way!

Designing Slaaneshy and Tzeentchian models require more:
Slaaneshy models are supposed to gracious and elegant modelled, and this is alot harder then doing above mentioned things. It even requires a bit more creative names then for example "Blood Slaughterer"...
Tzeentchian models should look arcane and mystic, and this is also alot harder then the mentioned above things. Same goes here for names too.

The sad sum is that Slaanesh and Tzeentch require more work when they design Daemons/Daemonengines/CSMwhatnots and has a lot higher "goof factor" on the projects and thus the design teams shuns these 2 Gods...

It would imho be awesome if the designers took a bit of a look around on different forums. There are more then a few neat Slaaneshy/Tzeentchian vehicles/whatnots being created by folks (Vash's scratchbuilt Questor Scout Titan that can be found on Heresy-Online, the EmperorsChildren-forums and surely other places too is a brilliant example), and hopefully these projects could inspire them to show some love for the followers of Slaanesh/Tzeentch in the future:)

[mountaincycle661]

i dont honestly think that the models for tzeentch and slaanesh are harder to make, not at all. The sculptors and modelmakers that work for GW are incredibly talented. I doubt regal, arcane and sleek are beyond their talents.

I understand that GW wants to provide for the fans, that they want to pump out products and attention for those factions that have recieved the best feedback. BUT...that doesnt mean they should altogether forget out those that play otherwise.

I am happy and proud to have read such a strong response from people out there that really really love the tzeentchian side of 40K. Theres obviously a lot of thousand sons fans out there, a lot more than i expected! I only hope that enough of us "tzeentch cultists" can raise enough ruckus to catch the attention of GWs think-tank.

[Herald of Nurgle]

Second Wave has plastic horrors, Twin Scribes, and Screamers.

Two of the above have been confirmed for a long time.

[Rapture]

A lot of things go into which god is the most popular.

Starting with their symbols. These draw in players and can be a key factor in determining what they choose Think space marine chapter symbols. Which is cooler, that of the Rainbow Warriors or that of the Salamanders?
Nurgle's is nice and simple. Three circles. Visually appealing and very easy to model in a variety of fashions.
Khorne's is big and boxy. A splattering of blood over it and the job is done.
Tzenetch's is interesting but that is about it. Flame-ish ball... its a little weak looking.
Slaanesh's is slightly phallic. It certainly makes a statement.

Then there are the key/unique units like HQs and elites. I started collecting Tau to get my hands on some stealth suits and I got into marines to flex my developing modeling skills by making some snazzy captains.
Nurgle has got giant, festering demons brandishing rusty blades or organic looking weaponry.
Khorne has giant swords and axes aplenty. Matches with a devil looking wielder to give a very pleasing image.
Tzenetch has a giant vulture-chicken and some models that look like the may have melted a little in the sun.
Slaanesh has got an S&M man with a lobster claw, horns poking out of its head in a radial pattern, and boobs.

My reasons may be slightly biased but no one can deny the fact that Nurgle and Khorne have much more easily appealing visuals that their less commonly used other god friends.

[mountaincycle661]

Second Wave has plastic horrors, Twin Scribes, and Screamers.

Two of the above have been confirmed for a long time.

WHAAAAAAA?! :eek: Did i miss something here?! Before i go and get all freakin excited, how can you be sure of this? Where did you hear this news? Furthermore, how was it that nobody else commented on that, nor did i see it posted in the second wave demons post on the main BOLS website (you know, with the other second wave info)?

[Katie Drake]

Plastic Screamers... now that'd be a treat. I refuse to drop $50 on three models. Or is it five? Whatever, I still don't wanna pay that much. :(

In all seriousness though, I think Tzeentch and his followers just hold a lot less appeal than the other Gods. I mean... it's easy to understand worshiping a God that's all about killing stuff, especially if the person doing the worshiping is already a soldier. Everbody likes boobs, so Slaanesh is a no-brainer. I'm not too sure about Plague Marines, as personally the idea of being around a bunch of guys who haven't showered for 10,000+ years doesn't appeal to me. I guess people playing 40K are looking for more technological themes than simply Sorcerers in Space. I bet if they re-wrote some of the fluff on the Thousand Sons and made mention that the Legion makes extensive use of Daemon Engines to make up for its depleted numbers after the Rubric of Ahriman was cast you'd see a few more Tzeentchian gamers.

As it stands right now, there's not a lot of appeal to many Tzeentchian models. You have a pissed off version of Big Bird as your Greater Daemon, some shapeless blobs of flesh and teeth for Troops, Manta Rays that can fly and eat tanks for Fast Attack and a bunch of robes that form themselves into a vague cone shape and spit fire at stuff. All that sounds a lot less cool than, say, a half beast, half man with a sword around 8" long and a bad attitude who exists purely to kill. *shrug*

[RogueMarine]

i bet that once the SW are finished you will hear about tzeentch again...especially with the novels coming out about that.

[person person]

As it stands right now, there's not a lot of appeal to many Tzeentchian models. You have a pissed off version of Big Bird as your Greater Daemon, some shapeless blobs of flesh and teeth for Troops, Manta Rays that can fly and eat tanks for Fast Attack and a bunch of robes that form themselves into a vague cone shape and spit fire at stuff.

Like I said earlier a flying octopus should fit perfectly in that range instead of a bird. Another cool addition would be something HR Giger's alien-ish, it has an unsettlingly unnatural look, yet it doesn't look to mechanical to be a machine, without looking like a mass of brainless warped tentacles. The only problem is it doesn't look horribly mutilated enough.

[mountaincycle661]

As it stands right now, there's not a lot of appeal to many Tzeentchian models. You have a pissed off version of Big Bird as your Greater Daemon, some shapeless blobs of flesh and teeth for Troops, Manta Rays that can fly and eat tanks for Fast Attack and a bunch of robes that form themselves into a vague cone shape and spit fire at stuff. All that sounds a lot less cool than, say, a half beast, half man with a sword around 8" long and a bad attitude who exists purely to kill. *shrug*

Well, its easy to down-play tzeentch when you describe it like that. But, two can play that game. So, you've got an army of mindless, uni-dimensional characters who run head long at the enemy and pray to khorne that they get into combat before getting shot to tiny pieces. Woo...yay. How boring is that? If i wanted a boring run-across-the-table-and-get-into-hand-to-hand army, I'd play tyranids...or orks...or khorne! Boooorrring.

And flying mantas that eat tanks?! Freakin AWESOME, where do i sign up?! And i dont know how easily you can actually compare flamers to "robes that form themselves into tubes". Cmon. You gotta give those sculptors some credit, flamers are awesome looking models. And an army of morphing, mutating, formless, chaotic teeth, mouths and flaming limbs? Christ...whats not to like?

I'll just come out and say it: I freakin hate khorne and nurgle (as is befitting a tzeentch player :D). I hate them not solely because they get the spotlight ALL THE TIME, plus the new models, and forgeworlds attention. But i also hate them for thier boring style of play. Khorne? Run across the table. Charge. I win. Nurgle? Run across the table, remove fewer models than khornate players, charge. Maybe win. Tzeentch? Now theres an army that you cannot afford to be reckless with. It takes strategy and forethought to win with tzeentch. If played right, the shooting phase from a good tzeentchian player would leave you burnt to a crisp with nothing to say about it.

Go ahead, you can have your boring assault troops. Ill take my chances with an army that requires skill. ;)

[PlaguedOne]

I feel that Tzeentch, of all the Chaos Gods, allows for the most opportunity for conversions. While I agree that Tzeentch probably has the least support model-wise, I think you could grab some other models and convert them up to represent what you need. Especially if you're talking about daemons.

Oddly enough, I'm a Nurgle player who tends to favor Tzeentch as his second choice. :P It would be nice to see some plastic Tzeentch stuff at some point.

[Warmaster Primus]

I know a redshirt that browses the net when bored at home finding funny pic.s and cool conversions.

If you look at CSM cult troops:

Khorne Berzerkers are always on shelf at my local GW, they're made of plastic, $36, 12 models, most popular.

Plauge Marines are usually on shelf, all metal, 7 models, $50, 2nd most popular.

Thousand Sons very rarely in stock, 9 models metal/plastic, $50, 3rd.

Noise marines are never in stcok unless ordered, metal/mostly plastic, 8 models, $45, Last.

Looks like Slaanesh is least popular, judging by the CSM armys I see, yes. I don't get why the tzeentch greater daemon is a bird though, I think it should be a flying octopus.:D

Your prices are a bit off.
$30 Berzerkers (12 guys)
$35 Plague Marines (7 guys)
$35 Noise Marines (8 guys, but you need to buy at bitz pack for $19.75 to get enough weapons to really make then noise marines)
$41.25 Thousand Sons (9 guys)
$35 for basic CSM (10 guys)

[person person]

I live in Canada.

[mountaincycle661]

Your prices are a bit off.
$30 Berzerkers (12 guys)
$35 Plague Marines (7 guys)
$35 Noise Marines (8 guys, but you need to buy at bitz pack for $19.75 to get enough weapons to really make then noise marines)
$41.25 Thousand Sons (9 guys)
$35 for basic CSM (10 guys)

But see! thats exactly it! The most expensive thing in that list is Tzeentch stuff! Thousand sons are the most expensive (to buy) troops out of the cults, AND they have the suckiest rules, despite having the coolest (IMO) fluff. And by far, too! And the sprues they give you with those metal parts? only enough to make the bare essential generic marines stuff. No plasma guns, no extra meltas, no champion sprue. NOTHING. Only the parts necessary to build the thousand sons, plus metal bits. Whereas the plauge marines are ENTIRELY METAL, yet cost LESS?!

GO TO HELL, GW. :mad:

[Katie Drake]

Well, its easy to down-play tzeentch when you describe it like that. But, two can play that game. So, you've got an army of mindless, uni-dimensional characters who run head long at the enemy and pray to khorne that they get into combat before getting shot to tiny pieces. Woo...yay. How boring is that? If i wanted a boring run-across-the-table-and-get-into-hand-to-hand army, I'd play tyranids...or orks...or khorne! Boooorrring.

I was bashing the models, not the playstyle. In fact, I find Tzeentchian units (at least the Daemonic ones, don't get me started on the Thousand Sons) to be some of the best, if not the best in the entire Codex.


And flying mantas that eat tanks?! Freakin AWESOME, where do i sign up?! And i dont know how easily you can actually compare flamers to "robes that form themselves into tubes". Cmon. You gotta give those sculptors some credit, flamers are awesome looking models. And an army of morphing, mutating, formless, chaotic teeth, mouths and flaming limbs? Christ...whats not to like?

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but all I see when I look at flamers are robes that form a vague cone shape. Really, that's it.


I'll just come out and say it: I freakin hate khorne and nurgle (as is befitting a tzeentch player :D). I hate them not solely because they get the spotlight ALL THE TIME, plus the new models, and forgeworlds attention. But i also hate them for thier boring style of play. Khorne? Run across the table. Charge. I win. Nurgle? Run across the table, remove fewer models than khornate players, charge. Maybe win. Tzeentch? Now theres an army that you cannot afford to be reckless with. It takes strategy and forethought to win with tzeentch. If played right, the shooting phase from a good tzeentchian player would leave you burnt to a crisp with nothing to say about it.

Bah, you've got it all wrong with Khornate armies. I mean, have you ever tried to take out a mechanized army with a Khornate army? That takes some serious effort, skill and luck on the Chaos player's part. As for Nurgle, I'd imagine that most players don't try to run Nurgle units into close combat seeing that most of said units can barely move, let alone fight. The idea behind Nurgle units are to be very average fighters offensively, but to be extremely difficult to kill or shift from an objective. You are right in that a pure Tzeentch army takes skill to play correctly, but I wouldn't say there's any more skill involved in setting up fire traps that ensure that the enemy doesn't get to assault you is any more complex than insuring that your units get to assault the enemy.


Go ahead, you can have your boring assault troops. Ill take my chances with an army that requires skill. ;)

Haha, ouch. ;) Hey now, I was only bashing the models! Like half of my Daemon army is Tzeentchian! :P


I live in Canada.

That's nice?

[person person]

GW prices are different here, which means the prices of CSM Warmaster Primus and I listed are both right depending where you live.

I have to admit, that was random.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'd be happy with just a horror command unit, allthough a completely redesigned lord of change would be awesome too, if it got rid of the outdated generic bird look that ruined the feel of the rest of the models.

Shame they get so little love as the horrors/screamers/flamers are by far the most original models GW have produced, and by far the most "alien" and "lovecraftian".

[Abuzorg]

You folks forget something crucial :

Thousand Sons are the best looking model in the CSM army.

[DuskRaider]

I'm not too sure about Plague Marines, as personally the idea of being around a bunch of guys who haven't showered for 10,000+ years doesn't appeal to me.


Ever played at a gaming store ;)

In any case, Tzeentch seems to be popular on some sites (Warseer comes to mind), but if you look at what jumps off the shelf and the selections in the book, Tzeentch just doesn't add up to his other brothers (Nurgle and Khorne).

And I don't want to hear anything about video games not featuring Khorne. The only good one they've put out recently ONLY features Tzeentch as the playable God faction (WAR).

[mountaincycle661]

You folks forget something crucial :

Thousand Sons are the best looking model in the CSM army.

BAM!

'Nuff said.

[Kahoolin]

I gotta say, it always kind of annoyed me that the Tzeentch cult troops in 40k don't seem to have powers that are stereotypically Tzeentchian. Beserkers are obviously Khorny (heh heh), Plague Marines and Noise Marines have stats and abilities that relate to their gods, but the Tzeentch troops are ... undead? Slow? I thought Tzeentch was meant to be fire, and zipping about giggling at people while you blast them with raw magic?

There just isn't any scope for having themed Tzeentch traitor marines that aren't precisely the Thousand Sons, whereas the other Cults are types of marine, not specific legions.

[tinfoil]

I gotta say, it always kind of annoyed me that the Tzeentch cult troops in 40k don't seem to have powers that are stereotypically Tzeentchian. Beserkers are obviously Khorny (heh heh), Plague Marines and Noise Marines have stats and abilities that relate to their gods, but the Tzeentch troops are ... undead? Slow? I thought Tzeentch was meant to be fire, and zipping about giggling at people while you blast them with raw magic?

There just isn't any scope for having themed Tzeentch traitor marines that aren't precisely the Thousand Sons, whereas the other Cults are types of marine, not specific legions.

Yep, it does seem like a real lapse. The latest CSM codex offers gameplay perhaps a bit closer to something Tzeentchian. Still...

It's the Chaos Daemons codex, IMO, that really captures the spirit of the God. Flamers, Horrors, the Changeling, Lords of Change, the Blue Scribes, and the special Tz Greater Daemon all evoke their origins in the Twisted Labyrinth of their Dark Master.

[mountaincycle661]

I agree, 100%.

Its a real shame that the thousand sons dont really have much in common with tzeentch. Sure, they have an invo save......ok? AND? What? thats it? Oh, AP3 bolters are kinda neat, and i suppose they are the link to the whole "hurling magic blasts" attribute. But i dont know....its kind of weak.

Im mostly pissed because khorne troops are, pound for pound, one of the best H2H units in the GAME and they're troops choices. They have access to powerfists. They can kill armour, walkers, monstrous creatures, infantry both heavy and light. Crap loads of attacks standing still! Plague marines are some of the toughest troops out there and are some of the best "all-arounders". Again, access to powerfists, and meltaguns, plasma guns... 2 base attacks, great for fighting up close. Noise marines! access to powerfists, can RAIN sonic weapons on the enemy, can take heavy anti vehicle weapons, great in combat because they have two CCWs and great initiative.

Thousand sons? WE'RE THE ONLY THING IN THE WHOLE FREAKIN CODEX THAT HAS 1 ATTACK BASE! We simply CANNOT defend ourselves in close combat against anything but guard and tau. We die to lasguns and bolters just as easily as a regular 15pt marine....gone are the days of having survivable Sons with 2 wounds. We DO NOT have access to powerfists, so if we're charged by a dreadnaught we will slowly die off with practically no chance in hell of surviving. The only anti tank spell we have doesnt have melta benefits and is way too costly anyways. we're slow and cant get to objectives fast enough (unless you take a rhino, in which case your not shooting all those "wonderful" AP3 bolters, then are you?).

I love the thousand sons. But it is with a heavy heart that i must admit that GW has made them completely and utterly USELESS. All my models represent regular marines with the mark of tzeentch. Im sorry, i just cant justify NOT taking melta guns.

[MaidenManiac]

...Everbody likes boobs, so Slaanesh is a no-brainer...

I wholeheartedly agree there, but that wakes the question: why are there so few Slaanesy things too?:confused:

[Patternmaker]

I don't get why the tzeentch greater daemon is a bird though, I think it should be a flying octopus.:D

I would pay for a flying octopus/cephalopod/Cuthulu thing.

[LordKarthas]

My fav gods are Slaanesh not that terrible version they portrayed in the novel fulgrim but more the version where all they are about is sex drugs and rock and roll and possibly the idea of anything worth doing is worth doing more precise than anyone else followed by Tzeentch.

I have to admit I know tons of people that like both of these gods but it does seem that none of these people are the bugfs in the ear of GW crew either that or else the tzeentch/slaanesh fw stuff has been informed to take as much time as is necessary to produce soemthing amazing.

I would love to see what fw thousand sons would look like

[mountaincycle661]

so would I! I mean, look at the basic upgrade kits they did for the nurgle and khorne termis/marines. Can you imagine what FW would come up with if they had a go at slaanesh or tzeentch!?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Like I said earlier a flying octopus should fit perfectly in that range instead of a bird. Another cool addition would be something HR Giger's alien-ish, it has an unsettlingly unnatural look, yet it doesn't look to mechanical to be a machine, without looking like a mass of brainless warped tentacles. The only problem is it doesn't look horribly mutilated enough.

I used a RAFM flying polyp myself :

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa207/embodiedscrew/Tzeentch_Daemons/TzeentchDaemons04.jpg

actually looks like its in a constant state of eh...change, unlike the laughable unoriginal big-bird. I like your squid idea too though :)

[mountaincycle661]

i dont understand why lots of people are against the vulture theme in tzeentch fluff. Ok, granted - the lord of change is in serious need of an update. It looks very silly, thats for sure (thats also why i still havent bought one). However, when done right, check out how freakin AWESOME a lord of change COULD look:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/store/product.php?xProd=3773&xSec=95

To me, the vulture theme is a perfect personification of all things tzeentch. They're callous creatures, so wicked looking! they're patient, planning for the perfect moment to act when the target is weak and vunerable.

God damn, tzeentch is awesome. :cool:

[mysterex]

Part of the thing with the Slaaneshi scarcity is that the +1 I from the Icon or Mark is less immediately appealing than the other benefits from the rival gods' marks. Another part is that Noise Marines are old fashioned models, appealing to that earlier GW fondness for silliness that has almost entirely been abandoned in 40K modelling since.

GW still likes silliness have a look at the silly hats on the current khorne and tzeentch models. Or for that matter some of the huge horns on the CSM helmets.

When comes to tzeentch bad rules leads to low sales leads to poor support - an unvirtuous circle.

[person person]

Vrock's awesome Its not a magical bird, a MUTANT magical bird!

[Emperorsmercy]

nice cloudy thing :)

but, yo just have to wait. In the past few codexes, rubbish units were dramatically improved because they werent selling very well. A new CSM codex, however many years in the future, will probably rectify this.

[Kahoolin]

i dont understand why lots of people are against the vulture theme in tzeentch fluff. To me, the vulture theme is a perfect personification of all things tzeentch. They're callous creatures, so wicked looking! they're patient, planning for the perfect moment to act when the target is weak and vunerable.I agree, I think the giant bird is cool, I don't know why people don't like it. I'll even go one better and say that I think the GW Lord of Change is the coolest looking greater Daemon model.

Well, better than the bloodthirster anyway ;)

[mountaincycle661]

agreed...the bloodthirster just looks terrible. If you ask me, ALL the metal greater demons need a resculpt.....Starting with the lord of change, of course ;)

[Xas]

I actually like the LoC the most of the metall Ggreater Deamons.

Both the LoC and BT are halfway ok because their wings give them a wrong illusion of size but both the GUO and KoS are terrible small. I have a FW plague-ogryn and when he stands next to my KoS it appears like he could break the thin crab-deamon into two halves with ease...

[mountaincycle661]

personally i think the keeper of secrets model needs to be completely re-thought. I just looks sooooo.....uuhhh....stupid? yeah, thats the right word.

But, staying on topic, the current lord of change model looks way too stickly and thin...except for his beer gut! :rolleyes: he needs a bit more bulk to him, definitely needs a new pose and reshaped wings.

Also, lets try to get him away from the skexie look a little bit, mmkay? ;)