2000pt CSM List

[eagleboy7259]

*This is not my list, I saw this in a battle report the other day and I thought it sounded pretty good. I was thinking about making a list similar to this, with a couple changes. Namely finding points for each squad to take a champ, hopefully getting marks on the princes, extra armor on the rhinos, etc. What changes would BoLS make to try and optimize this list?

2x Demon Prince - Winged & Warptime
Summoned Greater Demon

5x Chaos Terminators - 5 Lightning Claws, Icon of Slannesh, Heavy Flamer
**Chaos Land Raider - extra armor & dozer blade (dedicated transport)

10x Khrone Bezerkers - Skull Champion w/ Power Fist (in the Heavy Support Land Raider)

5x Chaos Space Marines - Champion, Meltagun, Icon of Chaos Glory
Rhino - combi-melta & dozer blade

6x Plague Marines - 2 plasma guns
Rhino - combi-plasma & dozer blade

Chaos Predator - Autocannon & Side Lascannons
Chaos Predator - Autocannon & Side Lascannons
Chaos Land Raider - extra armor & dozer blade

[Tynskel]

honestly, it isn't worth trying to change too much of this list. This puppy has packed as much as possible into the list. The only real way to pay for all of the things you are talking about is to get rid of the summoned greater daemon.

[blackarmchair]

How to you plan to win anything at 2k points with 21 marines and a few termies?

I like the models you've included but this would get blown off the damn table in only 1-2 turns by any good shooting army.

Frankly, it can even be out-assaulted by quite a few common builds.

[Tynskel]

How to you plan to win anything at 2k points with 21 marines and a few termies?

I like the models you've included but this would get blown off the damn table in only 1-2 turns by any good shooting army.

Frankly, it can even be out-assaulted by quite a few common builds.

well, it does have 3 monsterous creatures, 2 land raider, 2 predators, and 2 rhinos. I have won plenty of games with this type of configuration.

In fact, I usually prefer low marine count. More Epic. Always makes me sad when I loose 2 dozen marines, even if I table the opponent. Much better to table your opponent with the loss of 2-3 marines!

[eagleboy7259]

Even in an edition dominated by Melta, AV 14 is a damn pain to get rid of. I'd put Demonic Possession on the LR"s just because I'd expect them to be getting rocked every turn. In deployment you can typically hide everything behind the land raiders. It would look something like this:

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac54/primalvoidtheband/DSCN4160.jpg

Outside of Guard it would be pretty hard to get rid of everything in 1-2 turns. You can't realistically get into melta range on your turn 1, neither can you really expect most monsterous creatures to get into assault with them then either. Eldar simply don't pack enough bright lances although dark eldar might be a bit of a hassle.

As far as out assulting this army - yeah it's possible. I get that everybody loves a templar now, space wolves too, and dark angels would have scoring terminators. It's about on the same level as any marine army that uses the same kind of build, but none of them can take monsterous creatures - dreadnoughts or special characters don't really lend the same strengths to an army that the demon princes and greater demon would add to this one. The other thing, if you're riding in a Land Raider you dictate the assualt to a degree, and that can be a huge boon to the survival of these units.

[Tynskel]

drop pods can get meltas in on turn 1, however. Although, they either either 1) spending a lot of points (ie Sternguard, veterans) or 2) might whiff, and then destroyed by monsterous creatures (anything other than sternguard, veterans).

Although, the army is based around hitting power, not staying power--- are you sure you want to give up a monsterous creature?

[Connjurus]

Though it pains me to see Markless-Princes, I understand this is about cramming stuff in.

Am going to actually be running a list similar to this pretty soon, only that Daemon Princes are both MoT'd.

Edit: Also, if I was going to change/take off anything in this list, it would be change the Power Fist on the Khorne Berzerker to a Power Weapon (take full advantage of Furious Charge, let more of your 'zerkers survive a CC by killing more models before they would be able to strike back) and take off the Dozer Blade from the Land Raider, simply because there shouldn't be that much terrain to give you trouble, and you have to move 6" or under to get the benefit anyway.

[Tynskel]

I'd get rid of the power weapon altogether. Just have the Greater Daemon pop outta his chest. What's better support for a bezerker squad than a daemon popping outta someone's chest and charging!

Funny, I don't like chaos too much, but this army is growing on me...

[eagleboy7259]

I like the idea of bringing a power weapon on the khrone bezerkers. I think that with the greater demon and the demon princes running about that dreadnoughts shouldnt be too much of a problem, especially with the bezerkers riding in a rhino anyways. I think the thought behind this list is that it's designed so that the champ in the CSM squad becomes the demon prince, since the rhino is going to be taxiing into melta range anyway.

What do you guys think of the Terminator set up? Would you change it at all, because I think thats where I could some spare points, and I think it could be a more effective squad with a different set-up.

I would scrap the dozer blades altogether. Buy possession on the Land Raiders and then find some use for the 10 pts from the dozer blades on the Rhinos - either a termiator champ, plague champ, or something.

[Daemonette666]

If you get rid of the Dozer Blade and the extra armour, you can get possessed for the same price and since all the weapons are twin linked the -1 BS does not matter as much. I would rather be able to keep moving and shooting than hit as accurately (countered as I said by twin linked weapons).

I would give on or more personal icons to champions and maybe even drop a predator, and get a couple of units of Summoned lesser daemons. They can deep strike using the icon to be accurate (6" of the icon" and caqn assault on the turn they arrive. They also count as scoring units. Their only 2 drawbacks are that their arrival is determined by your reserves roll, and they are destroyed if no icon to guide them in is available on the turn they arrive. I ahve had good results with them though.

On the rhino for the unaligned CSM unit.I would replace the dozer balde with a havoc launcher. It gives you an extra weapon to absorb weapon destroyed hits or immobalised hits if you are already immobalised, and it is a nice 36" range twin linked str 5 blast template weapon. Most enemy I go against hate me using them, as they usually take out 1 or 2 of the enemy troops per turn.

I can see you love using your Predators as a dedicated tank to kill both enemy tanks and troops, but I would probably spend the points on Obliterators if I had the points. Yes I know BORING CHOICE., but effective choice. they replace a havoc squad, but can move and shoot., have better armour, and can use cover to get saves when hit by big nasty weapons that would kill the predators quickly. They can use Multi-Meltas, Plasma cannons, and Lascannons. If going against infantry, just switch to heavy flamer or twin linked falmer, and you have a nasty unit that has powerfists, and 2 wounds each (for enemy weapons str 7 ot less). I recommend 2 Obliterators. They can be deep striked into enemy held area, and can deny objectives whil hugging cover. They can also be left in the rear to hold the home base from enemy flankers.

Just some ideas.

for -2 tanks you get 2 obliterators, 10-20 Lesser daemons split into small units to hold multiple objectives, possessed tanks that can ignored stunned/ shaken results, and a few havoc lzaunchers to reduce thier troops down with template weapons.

If you do not like my suggestion, just ignore it. LOL.

[Tynskel]

I second the Havoc Launchers. Pain in tha Arse! I played a game of bugs vs chaos a month ago (god emperor, a month has already gone by), and the 4 havoc launchers were a pain!

[eagleboy7259]

Hahah well ill second the fact that the thing you see in the picture is neither my army nor my list. Possessed is one damn great thing. I play chaos demons right now, oh heck yeah i will tell you that ability on soul grinders pays off more than anything.

Havoc launchers would be something to consinder... you really think they are that much better than combi weapons?

I'm not dropping the Preds. I love them. They look damn awesome and add another armor value whereas troops are somewhat easy to run through. If oblits were the S5 T5 that we had in the previous edition then i would absolutely take them. If there were any real change to them, then I would put possessed on them if I had the points, simply because shaken and stirred comes up sooo often that BS 3 offsets any problems

That and I plan on paying to have the infantry commissioned whereas I'm going to paint the tanks by myself =D

[Tynskel]

twin-linked Str5 AP5 Blast are great. They'll put consistent wounds on marines, and tear apart anything that is low toughness.

[Brettila]

Another thing to consider is that havocs fire every turn whereas a combi-weapon gets one shot; which normally fizzles in some sad fashion.